Your view on the ethics of History writing

srmeaney · 2005-12-31 23:27:52

A dispute over Japan being forced to teach a truthful version of its history is on the rise.

By comparison we have the American Revolution:

George Washington was a tax dodging Warlord who with his band of Bush terrorists torched the fields of any farmer cooperating with the "legitimate government of the day" and assaulted officers of the rightful Government of North America.
All the while a band of shopkeepers and merchants were busily settingthem selves up as leaders of the new order even though Washington had little to do with what they wanted from him.

Is the whole historical truth more important than any one nation that would use a corrected version of history to instill the loyalty to state in its children?

Martian Republic · 2006-01-01 12:05:08

A dispute over Japan being forced to teach a truthful version of its history is on the rise.
By comparison we have the American Revolution:
George Washington was a tax dodging Warlord who with his band of Bush terrorists torched the fields of any farmer cooperating with the "legitimate government of the day" and assaulted officers of the rightful Government of North America.
All the while a band of shopkeepers and merchants were busily settingthem selves up as leaders of the new order even though Washington had little to do with what they wanted from him.
Is the whole historical truth more important than any one nation that would use a corrected version of history to instill the loyalty to state in its children?

American History has been rewritten by different factions inside the United States times and putting there ideas in there. I might add, so has the US economic system hashed up too by different factions also that does not conform to the US Constitution either. I will go to the point of saying that most Americans don't know the real American history nor do they know what kind of economic system that we suppose to have either. The only way the George Bush could do what he is doing was by the ignorance of the American People in there own history and what the US Economic system is suppose to really be. The King George the third was doing basically the same thing that George Bush is doing right now. They were both thievery mass murder and oppressing the American people. They both sent foreign armies overseas to oppress other people and to murder them. Neither one ruled America by the consent of the governed and nor did either one promote of defend the General Welfare of there people, but oppressed them and became tyrant or dictators. George Bush entered the office of the President by appointment and stayed in office by voter fraud. The House of Winsor of which King George the Third is a member of was installed by a private financial Oligarchy that setup the Bank of England which is a private banking system. It was this financial Oligarchy with there figurehead King George the Third that function outside of government to control that government, but not a government that functions as a sovereign entity ruling. They moved against those colonist with there figurehead king to crush and impoverish these American Colonies under there heal of despotism and oppression. The American colonies rebelled against that tyranny of the King and those foreign armies being sent over from Europe to oppress them at gun point. Read the US Declaration of Independence and it identify many of the violations of the King that cause them to rebel against him. There a trust between those that are being ruled and the ruler and when that trust has been violated by the ruler and he will stop his deeds of oppression and those that are ruled have a right to throw that oppression off, because they can't tolerate his despotism anymore. They have that right to do that if there is no other way to deal with that Tyrant. By the way, George Bush has committed that same kind of crimes the caused the American Revolution also. Like invade foreign countries, steal from the American People and give there money to Halliburtan and Enron. Refuse to defend the General Welfare that in the US Constitution like in New Orleans, but goes on vacation while a thousand Americans die. We present day Americans are not obligate to the current George or his rule over us and like our for father believe that they didn't have to acknowledge there George as there leader either.

We don't recognize either George as a leader over the United States and that the difference between being a Citizen or being a Subject. That the difference between being a citizen of the United States or being the subject of Great Britain. You have a slightly different view on things and how we should look at things.

Larry,

Commodore · 2006-01-01 17:12:10

People rewrite history because its easy to do if no one calls them on it.

This thread is proof.

Eigon · 2006-01-02 09:28:59

The best way of doing it is to have lots of different points of view represented in the books that are published, TV programmes that are made, etc.

Getting away from the US situation, a lot of Turks get very upset when a non-Turk mentions the Armenian massacres of the early 20th C, because they have been taught in school that this is a big lie made up by other countries who don't like Turkey.
There are, of course, no books by Armenians on the subject available in Turkey.

RIZ4ROCKET · 2006-02-04 21:39:28

I met a woman from Germany years back. She would have been born in the late '60's. Upper Middle class and college educated.

One evening, during a conversation, I discovered that she was completly unaware of the German V2 rocket program at Penemunde, or of Werner Von Braun, or of how critical German rocket technology was to the American effort in the "Space Race" vs. the USSR.

I was amazed at this. Given the conduct of the Germans during WW2, I would have thought that at least SOMETHING of a (more or less) "positive" note would have been part of her core curricula.

I never asked, but I still wonder how much of Germany's war atrocities are being taught to German school children, then and now.

Rxke · 2006-02-07 06:42:23

Of course, one anecdotal German woman does not a good case make, grin.

But I guess it's everywhere the same shit.

I'm Belgian, and some years ago was rather shocked to find that the history of the Belgian-Congo colony is taught in many (other!) countries as an example of colonialism going ugly. Of course I had it in history, but it was a mere footnote, only recent years see the atrocities getting more scope in the mainstream press.

Another anecdote: years ago, before da inerweb was popular, I went to a concert, turned out the support group were French, rather left-wing guys, (great show, great guys, BTW, if you like oldish-school hardcore like Fugazi, check them out: prohibition) and during the show they tried to chat a bit with the audience, but, well, the audience wasn't very friendly, calling them names like 'island-bombers, nuke-lovers' etc.

I happened to meet the singer afterwards, in another bar and we chatted a bit, and he said he was totally puzzled by the remarks. I told him the whole frigging world was mad at France for their nuclear tests at Mururoa, that were happening at that time.
He was amazed, shocked, incredulous.
Thinking of himself as a rather well-informed guy, he'd never heard about the international protests, even in government-critic papers... French press was totally censoring that stuff.

clark · 2006-02-07 12:58:45

Oh, that’s nothing. There was this time where the [deleted] lied about [deleted], of course I thought everyone knew, but then I find out that [deleted] was just a [deleted] for the real story, which was all about [deleted] and [deleted].

But I’m not too concerned, as the truth will inevitably get out. I mean, its not like the entire [deleted] can just go around [deleted] from [deleted].

If you want to find out more, go here:
[deleted]

Or here:
[deleted]

And this one reveals the whole story:
[deleted]

*Administrator edit: The above was modified without the users consent to meet national security requirements.

RIZ4ROCKET · 2006-02-07 13:20:07

The Admin would simply have deleted the post. And it's about 2 strikes before the "censored" party figures out where the line is drawn before they get the boot themselves.

Hiding the act of censorship (to the greatest extent possible) is usually more important (to the censor) than is censoring the actual speech.

Also, getting rid of the Agitators is more efficient than governing (regulating) them. Interestingly, it is their own speech that "red flags" exactly who it is that needs to be gotten rid of.

clark · 2006-02-08 06:21:45

killjoy.

Gennaro · 2006-04-21 16:52:52

I met a woman from Germany years back. She would have been born in the late '60's. Upper Middle class and college educated.
One evening, during a conversation, I discovered that she was completly unaware of the German V2 rocket program at Penemunde, or of Werner Von Braun, or of how critical German rocket technology was to the American effort in the "Space Race" vs. the USSR.
I was amazed at this. Given the conduct of the Germans during WW2, I would have thought that at least SOMETHING of a (more or less) "positive" note would have been part of her core curricula.
I never asked, but I still wonder how much of Germany's war atrocities are being taught to German school children, then and now.

The reason for this is naturally that hardly anything else is taught to German schoolchildren than the horrors of German atrocities in WWII.

Earthfirst · 2006-04-25 17:19:03

History is just agrgeed upon myths, there are no truths in history.

As for teaching past war crimes, the truth is in history there are no war crimes. Which ever myth prevails is the history, nations ofthen claim that war crimes happen by another nation. While the other nation claims that war crimes committed by the nation. Which ever nation is more powerful their myth of what happen will prevail and other nations will be demondized.
If Germany had won WW2 than we be hearing about the crimes that the Russians, and England did. Are current myths will change over time to which ever myth is popular or supported by the most power nation at the time.

So it does not really matter if war crimes are taught in school, it is just you forcing your myths on people who do not want it. In my liberal view people should be aloud to belive in what ever myth they want. Because in the end it does not matter what myth people belive in. They like there myths and that's fine, there is no truth in history. In fact good history has little to do with the truth, but the myths that makes people happy. Truth is really is just your own myths that you use to understand the world.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-19 10:47:45

Azerbaijan Pummels Armenian Positions In Nagorno-Karabakh
https://funker530.com/video/azerbaijan- … -karabakh/

an old topic worth a bump?

in regards to quotes some might be lost in translation, but after a while reading quote after quote you will get the feel and flavor of it even when translated from other languages. I won't bother quoting much of the islamic jihad Quran or Kroan stuff as it often is very Low IQ perverted and violent schizo stuff.

Armenia and Azerbaijani culture, the USA has a few famous Armenian people I can not name Azerbaijani maybe a Chess player and maybe Turkish is Anti-Armenia, the Turks go on the side of the mohammedans.

One history item they do not teach the Royal Proclamation of 1763, colonists in British North America became unhappy over their share of the winnings. George Washington was a complex man and a man of his time, objectively from the outside I think he was maybe a better military leader than President but also a very good President. Maybe over time some element of myth adds into a story which people claim as real. Did the saint and holy George Washington Really Say, “I Can’t Tell a Lie”? The Founding Fathers of the United States were remarkable and unique people, he never let the British destroy his army. He played the battle very well tactically and with the help of the French army and navy, Washington made a British army surrender. If the British won he would be a villain but he won and the villain tyrant King an Empire sent home, what is also interesting is he did not belong to any political party.

Japan is a strange one, it did terrible crimes and it didn't have the same trail and confession as the Germans. The Japanese do wash over history yet to put it in context other Empires from around the world were already expanding, the Japanese industry came after others and the arrived late at the Imperial global war game.
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” George Orwell
"History is always written by victors, and the defeated create a new set of myths to explain the past and gild the future" — Morris L. West
"It is, as we know, the victors who write the history, especially when only the victors know how to write." — Neil MacGregor
From a world of Japan idioms and Japanese Proverbs “A frog in a well knows nothing of the sea.”
or “Even the head of a sardine can become holy with devotion.”
“When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty and there is nothing to fear from them then he is always stirring up some wary or other in order that the people may require a leader.” Plato
“Study the past if you would define the future.” Confucius
“The Master spoke “A true teacher is one who, keeping the past alive, is also able to understand the present” that is what he said” Confucius
"Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated" - Confucius
"The thing is to make history, not to write it" - Otto Von Bismark
"History a set of lies agreed upon." Napoleon Bonaparte
"What is history but a fable agreed upon?" -Napoleon Bonaparte
"A generation which ignores history has no past and no future." Robert Heinlein
“We have it in our power to begin the world over again.” Thomas Paine
“Reality denied comes back to haunt.” Philip K. Dick
"Know the enemy and know yourself." Sun Tzu
"History written by the victors" — Walter Benjamin. "History is written by the victors, the strongest, the most determined. Truth is found most often in the silence, in the quiet places" — Kate Mosse. "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce" — Winston Churchill

I don't know many quotable from Armenia but there is
'A great coach can lead you to a place where you don't need him any more.'
Andre Agassi
born in Las Vegas, Nevada, to Emmanuel "Mike" Agassi (Aghassian), a former Olympic boxer from Iran and American Elizabeth "Betty" Agassi (née Dudley). His father is of Armenian and Assyrian heritage

and keeping news current

Lula says will review Brazil’s position on ICC’s arrest warrant on Putin
https://www.laprensalatina.com/lula-say … -on-putin/
Brazil's President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva said he will review his country’s position

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-09-19 11:31:02)

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#1 2005-12-31 23:27:52

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#2 2006-01-01 12:05:08

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#3 2006-01-01 17:12:10

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#4 2006-01-02 09:28:59

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#5 2006-02-04 21:39:28

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#6 2006-02-07 06:42:23

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#7 2006-02-07 12:58:45

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#8 2006-02-07 13:20:07

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#9 2006-02-08 06:21:45

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#10 2006-04-21 16:52:52

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#11 2006-04-25 17:19:03

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

#12 2023-09-19 10:47:45

Re: Your view on the ethics of History writing

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