The MarsDrive Consortium

Marsman · 2005-10-26 00:03:48

Hi everyone, it's finally taken shape, The MarsDrive Consortium is here for you. Many people prefer to talk about how we will one day get to Mars, we prefer to act. If action is something that interests you, and if you think you can help, drop in for a while and check us out. I have been a part of the space advocate community long enough to know the criticisms of any plans to go to Mars and have decided to do something about it. It won't be easy, and it will be a long hard road, but if you want to make use of your talents and skills in what is a vibrant and growing program, then check us out at- http://marsdrive.com/index.php If you have any questions or comments let me know.

BWhite · 2005-10-28 21:09:55

Web site looks great.

Do I know any of you?

Marsman · 2005-10-28 21:22:40

Some of us were at Red Colony, some from the Mars Society, others just joined from their own reasons, I have been here for a few months now. Things are really starting to move along, we just need some more people like ourselves who are passionate about seeing humans on Mars sooner rather than later and are willing to work with many other groups and people. We are here to stay.

Marsman · 2005-10-29 03:48:37

MarsDrive is a concept worth looking into. For years I have listened to space advocate groups complain about the fact of lack of public interest or support for space exploration, etc. As I looked closer it became apparent that non-engineering, non-scientific people were interested in space issues but many times had been turned off from getting involved because it was not "their thing". Instead of adding to this problem by doing nothing or more talk, MarsDrive was formed specifically to address this issue. As far as I know there are no other groups doing this as their main focus. Imagine a support base of 3 million people. Not 25,000, not 100,000, but 3 million plus. What could such a group accomplish? Now many will say that this number is impossible but we disagree. The people are out there. You cannot tell me there are not at least 3 million people interested in space/Mars exploration who would be willing to join such an effort. Then the question comes- Why have they not joined other large space groups by now? I'm sure if you think about it you might come up with some answers of your own.

To reach a mass of people on that scale requires more than a few scientists or engineers speaking in a conference or writing some books. It requires a clear and inspiring purpose(like a mission to Mars) and professional(constant) media exposure. It also requires people who can relate to the larger masses we are trying to reach, average people like those of us at MarsDrive. I believe that building a massive support base of this size will be of huge benefit to all space advocate groups and space ventures in general, private or government sector. In itself it will become a new source of funding for such groups and will have the resources and size to be taken seriously by government.

For all of us who want to see a future for humans in space and on Mars without the problem of having to lobby the government for decades, building a group of this size is in all of our best interests. For those who say it can't be done can I say- what then is your own answer? Being negative is a part of the reason why such ideas fail. The goal of building this consortium is realistic. Now we are seeking the brilliant minds who can help make it a reality.

If you think we lack the people or resources to make our goals a reality then can I ask you to join us? I know you will say something like- I haven't got the time or I haven't got the skills but with MarsDrive we have overcome such issues. You put in whatever time you can, there is no pressure, and you do whatever suits you. We don't just need gifted people we need everyone. We need both quality AND quantity. By joining us you will help us achieve at least one of these goals. And if you are thinking- Oh not another group! remember that we are a Consortium, not a group. We already have links with 10 other groups because we are not a go it alone program. We are here to serve you as much as we are asking for people to help us. Join us.

Dook · 2005-10-29 07:30:10

You need a well known and respected scientist or other to be a figurehead. I don't know you from anyone else so why would I send you $80 a year?

Marsman · 2005-10-29 07:40:53

At this point in time we are only looking for skilled people to help out. Our plan is not to have one well known figure head but 12. The money side of it will be a long way down the track. It's an appeal for help, not money. If you want to know if we are the real deal or not ask Joe Palaia of 4 Frontiers or Terry MacKintosh, leader of the Florida Mars Society Chapter, Alex Moore president of Red Colony or Grant Bonin of SpaceNow. http://www.spacenow.ca/ We have only just started as well. I am confident the strength and common sense of this will stand up under scrutiny. If you really want to give money to someone I would advise the Mars Society or any number of other space advocate groups we are working with now.

Martian Republic · 2005-10-29 12:56:36

At this point in time we are only looking for skilled people to help out. Our plan is not to have one well known figure head but 12. The money side of it will be a long way down the track. It's an appeal for help, not money. If you want to know if we are the real deal or not ask Joe Palaia of 4 Frontiers or Terry MacKintosh, leader of the Florida Mars Society Chapter, Alex Moore president of Red Colony or Grant Bonin of SpaceNow. http://www.spacenow.ca/ We have only just started as well. I am confident the strength and common sense of this will stand up under scrutiny. If you really want to give money to someone I would advise the Mars Society or any number of other space advocate groups we are working with now.

Most of the people on this forum know that I'm a strong into the position of Lyndon Larouche. I'm more of a strategist of who is behind the shutting down of those NASA Mission and why we aren't on the Moon right now. But, it goes a whole lot deeper than that. We have to get into the differences of a physical economy based on a Government based Constitutional system and Free Market unregulated financial banking system. We are ultimately going to have to deal with people that go contrary to our best interest and the best interest of the United States and the best interest of the world at large. We are going to have to go back to the principle of the General Welfare concept. We need to be thinking in terms of building up the physical economy and improving the productive labor of the American Work force instead of promoting the financial economy and this so-called market forces. These people that want to preach the financial economy and market forces economic system, we should put out of the way and consider them mentally deranged or mentally sick people. This system is based on the Venision system of usury and price fixing by cartels to squeeze every last cent out of the consumers they can get.

Well, you might say, what does that have to do with Mars and colony that we want to build there?

It has everything to do with Mars, because they control the banking system, the grain cartel, the oil cartel and there off loady American Manufacturing overseas too.

Under the US Constitution, only congress has the right to coin money and generate credit which was taken away from the United States by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Until that act of 1913 has been repealed or the Federal Reserve has been put through a bankruptcy and re-organization, the United States does not control it own banking system and nor is the United States sovereigns power either. The Federal Reserve is a Private Banking System with Government Charter to act like the Central Bank of the United States. When FDR ran into the same problem that you are currently running into, he authorized the Treasury Department the authority to generate long term credit to finance the rebuilding of the United States and later on the rebuilding of Europe too after the war.

You still might not understand what this has to do with Mars.

Simple! A United States that is in the business of building up the physical infrastructure inside the United States and advancing the productivity of the work force will also be advancing long term credit to build on the Moon and Mars too. Matter of fact, building colonies in space would be a natural extension and a job works program that would dorffs FDR New Deal in size. As long as we are talking about building up a physical economy and advancing the productivity’s of the labor force for general welfare then it a worth while project for the United States Government to get into. But, if we are dealing with a US Government with people that think in a Free trade, Free Market, Market forces rules and private banking system owned private individuals, then everything your planning is a lost cause. What your trying to do is either a worthwhile project solely on the bases of the mental process of either being Venisian Financial system of usury or the American System of Physical economics and nothing else. Most of the people on this board and people that run with you are stuck on this Venisian Financial system of Usury and this system doom anything that your planning whether you know about it or not.

So it not enough to just have three million Americans pulling together. But, if you had three Americans that were educated in the American System of Economics and understand the benefit of space within that economic system, well that different. You might have something then, because they would know just how to attack this problem and would have a working plan to be installed that we know would work and be a benefit to America too.

Before I leave this argument, Larouche has stated many times that we should build city on Mars of 100,000 population and do it in a forty year time frame. So his Youth Movement is also interested in that idea too. If your still looking for possible interested parties, that would be a good look for them. I assure you they will be a very educated population and would know who to pull this thing off too.

Larry,

Dook · 2005-10-29 13:32:54

At this point in time we are only looking for skilled people to help out. Our plan is not to have one well known figure head but 12.

How are you going to get 12 people to agree on anything?

Just being here for a while and witnessing many ideas and proposals fail to win support of more than a few tells me that's not likely to happen.

Marsman · 2005-10-29 16:29:37

M.R.....Dook- as you know many space advocate groups have far more than 12 high profile members, usually as a board of advisors etc. Thats what we are engaged in now and it's not about getting them to agree. We are actually doing the work required so its not a matter of will it or won't it happen but a matter of time. As far as I can see we are ahead of our schedule. Don't misread what I say.

A simple request for help is all we are doing right now. The funny thing is our U.S director was registered here a long time ago. He had amazing potential which is now being realized but when he came in here no one responded. For a Mars enthusiast forum there is far too much cynicism here and you have lost some good people as a result. All I ask is that you examine a concept thoroughly before criticising it, there is nothing worse than an uninformed critic not willing to study all sides of the story. If the leaders of several space advocate groups can understand and support this concept, and they have much more experience in these matters than most people here, then maybe it's worth a serious look.

Dook · 2005-10-29 17:09:26

Doing the work required? What work?

What are the details of your mars mission plan that you hope to sell to the public to win this support that you are asking for?

We here are a fragmented bunch. We have a few voices of reason well founded in science who love to explain why your perfect plan won't work. We also have a few who will jump on board regardless of the cost, and risk vs benefit. The rest of us fall somewhere in between.

I don't know your U.S. director but I do know that if he, or anyone else, proposes a plan for putting humans on mars that survives the criticism, well...then I'm sure you will get all the public support you need.

And we're amatuers. If he can't handle it here, he sure ain't gonna be able to handle it out in the real science community.

Marsman · 2005-10-29 17:24:15

The work of reaching out to people in all types of positions, high and low. As I said, our name is The MarsDrive CONSORTIUM. That means we work with other groups, we don't intend to have all the answers ourselves because that only creates another rival group and that is the opposite of why we formed. Our mission plan at this early stage is Mars Direct/Mars Semi Direct and as far as I know that has withstood some sever attacks over the years. Our base plan is The Mars Homestead project design. Dook, I never said the plan was perfect. It has undergone many changes and it will continue to undergo many changes because we listen to people and are willing to learn. We are a long way off selling anything to the public Dook at this stage, the general public must be approached in the right way with the right people at the right time and we are not there yet. Right now, as I have repeated, we need people to help us in the formative processes. First things first. We are building the foundation required to reach the goals laid out and that requires many different steps. That is why we are looking in groups like New Mars and not making public adverts about it. Look a bit deeper.

noosfractal · 2005-10-29 18:52:27

Look a bit deeper.

My understanding of your plan: each of 3 million people send you $9.95 per month every month for 15-20 years. In return you give them ... nothing as far as I can tell except for the private satisfaction of knowing they helped pay for a manned mission to Mars.

Let's say you work out that you are going to have to give your subscribers something to keep their interest over that time period. Perhaps a monthly newsletter? How does that compare with the circulation of major magazines ...

Fortune - 900,000
Wired - 500,000
Rolling Stone - 1,200,000
Vogue - 1,300,000
National Geographic - 7,000,000
People - 3,600,000
Smithsonian - 2,000,000
Cosmopolitan - 3,000,000
Martha/Oprah - 2,500,000 each
Newsweek - 3,200,000

http://www.mdsconnect.com/topcirculation.htm

Say the entire Wired crowd catches Mars fever - you're still down 2.5 million subscribers. You're maybe one article per year in National Geographic. Perhaps Martian Living Magazine?

Say no. Say you're not even going to give them a magazine. They'll do it for the good feeling. Who to compare with? Greenpeace - 3 million subscribers (paying members). NRA - 4 million subscribers. Rotary - 1.2 million subscribers. PETA - 850 thousand. Actually for a good comparison we need an organization that is working for a goal 20 years distant ... how about the American Cancer Society - 2 million subscribers.

Only 2 million people in the US regularly support research that has an odds-on chance of saving their life. I bet the average ACS contribution is less than $80/year. What are you offering your subscribers Marsman? I don't think you can lump this issue under TBD and expect to be taken seriously.
.

Marsman · 2005-10-29 19:25:53

You obviously did not look a bit deeper. You seem to be fixated on the financial issue which as I have repeated is not yet defined for a very good reason. There are many prepatory steps we need to take before we can make this goal a reality and hence the appeal for helpers now. You are right, the task is unprecedented and it will require alot of thought and I appreciate your own comments. The 3 million number is actually a fair distance off in our planning because obviously we need to have the right people and resources in place to make this happen and that is what we are doing right now. No, it won't just happen, and yes it is going to require many different factors. Usually when a new group starts up they have everything in order, a list of well known leaders and some decent credibility. We at MarsDrive decided that we wanted to give as many people the chance to be involved as possible because simply put, we need more helpers. Now if you won't take us seriously now thats fine, but remember that when MarsDrive does come into public view that you were given a chance to be involved from the start.

Quote-" don't think you can lump this issue under TBD and expect to be taken seriously." You are right. If you go to our site and look in "How will we get to Mars?" you will see that it is still being worked on for a very good reason. What you see right now is a picture of what we are aiming for. What you don't see is the how. But let me say that the membership package, while not finalized yet by a longshot did in it's initial format include some very relevant benefits for those joining. Now as you know if I reveal the details of this package now while we are still working on them and are in discussions with various commercial and space advocate parties it would be a betrayal of trust and a very unprofessional thing to do. Suffice it to say, a magazine will be a minor benefit of joining us at that time. We are looking to provide benefits that people want and are interested in. Maybe you have some suggestions? I understand the realities of what we are doing and that is why I seek out help where I can. Your points are all valid. Am I asking 3 million people to join us as we are right now? No. We are nowhere near ready for that task. What I am asking is for some help. Thank you for your comments.

noosfractal · 2005-10-29 20:57:15

What are you offering your subscribers Marsman?
It's a secret.

No sale!

You seem to be fixated on the financial issue

Look, I'm not asking for a detailed business plan - just a couple of powerpoint slides. It is hard enough to execute on a good idea. If you are relying on street theatre and puppet shows your only hope is to profit from the learn-from-my-mistake book that you write afterwards.

Maybe you have some suggestions?

I read an article that some MMORPGs have virtual GDPs greater than 50% of the world's nations, as well as healthy, and decidely non-virtual, revenue. Start a Mars-themed one where players have to solve problems within the parameters of the harsh Martian environment. Say that any player who tops the leader board for long enough has a chance of actually going to Mars - the ultimate prize. Make it that couples have a better chance of topping the leader board so that the game becomes a kind of dating site.

Will you get 3 million players? "The Sims" has shipped over 7 million copies.

Thank you for your comments.

You're welcome.
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Marsman · 2005-10-29 21:12:31

It's no secret Noosfractal. If you care to do a bit of digging you will find some raw details at the site where it all started, Red Colony. I wrote an article that started it all and here were some of my original ideas for membership-

a. A 5% discount card that can be used at participating businesses that are in partnership with the Mars settlement plan. (this may become 10%)
b. A detailed certificate thanking them for their part in this program.
c. An information Pack that contains detailed documentation, a short DVD presentation and some stickers and magnets to help them understand the plan and spread the word.
d. Entry into the competition where 5 winners(or at least one as you say) will be chosen to actually go to Mars on a later mission.
e. They will be able to leave a private message that will be taken to Mars as part of a permanent memorial set up to honor the people who made it all possible.
f. Forum access and all normal membership privileges that space advocate groups give to new members.
g. Optional- A free book or DVD of their choice to the value of $20 awarded to them in the 3rd year of their membership.
h. A share in any discoveries/profits.
i. Magazine/newsletter
j.Your own idea- I read an article that some MMORPGs have virtual GDPs greater than 50% of the world's nations, as well as healthy, and decidely non-virtual, revenue. Start a Mars-themed one where players have to solve problems within the parameters of the harsh Martian environment. Say that any player who tops the leader board for long enough has a chance of actually going to Mars - the ultimate prize.
and these were just the raw ideas when it all started. Things are improving from that and more is being added as we go along. Thanks again for your help. Even in its raw format I think its a bit more interesting than many similar packages I have seen. But as I keep saying, we are not at that point right now. People are required, not money at this stage. There is no sale to make because that part of the plan has not been launched yet. People like Joe Palaia of 4 Frontiers and Louis Friedman Executive Director of The Planetary Society understand and fully support our plan and will vouch for us even now at this early stage. Like I said, look deeper.

Dook · 2005-10-29 21:27:36

I don't want to continue to sound like I am against your cause but I really don't think you are accepting how incredibly difficult it's going to be.

I'll give you a suggestion. If humans on mars is really your goal then I'm sure you would have much more chance of success if you instead tried to encourage 3 million people to write/E-mail their congressional leaders that we should go to mars. It would also be much cheaper for your organization, although a few paid lobbyists could go a long way for your cause.

Also, if the purpose of your mars colony is to see if humans can simply survive there then you DO NOT have my support. It also sounds like there may be some kind of pyramid scheme membership going on. The members who have been around the longest are the first to go to mars!

If instead your goal is to conduct science with real scientists-not trekkies, well, then I'm on board. Figuratively of course. No way in hell you are getting me to abandon the beautiful earth for that dry, hostile, toxic, desert.

Marsman · 2005-10-29 22:25:39

Yes, having a lobby group of 3 million would have a big impact on the government side of things as opposed to the current model of a few thousand being ignored for decades, and we know that once formed a group of this size will have immense power to effect real policy change on space/Mars human exploration.For that reason alone it is worth building a group of this size. But to do this we must do things differently than in the past because as you know public support has not been greatly forthcoming for the current model of space advocate groups. I never said it would be easy to do this thing, the difference is we are not afraid to give it a go. No group, not even TPS has been able to rally millions of people to a political lobby effort. Why? Because politics is not very meaningful to the large bulk of people.

If it was you would have 90 or 100% voter turnouts and a massive increase in lobby group memberships. On the other hand, doing something about it from a private base where we the people get to determine outcomes does appeal to people. Yes, we intend for a Mars Colony to be permanent. No, there is no preference given to members who have been around longer than others, we are all the same. In fact the leadership will be disallowed from entering any competion for a possible Mars seat. Yes, real science on a permanent and growing basis is our goal. And yes, we have credible people supporting us even now. Hope that helps.

noosfractal · 2005-10-29 22:35:15

Entry into the competition where 5 winners(or at least one as you say) will be chosen to actually go to Mars on a later mission.

Oh, a sweepstakes. Why didn't you say so? Yeah, I totally think that can work. Annual winners (to reward early adopters) and then a final winner chosen from the annual winners. Just be transparent about setting up the foundation so that ticket buyers can be sure that you won't embezzle the funds. The Long Now Foundation people can help you with that.
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