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#1 2002-12-27 20:38:22

soph
Member
Registered: 2002-11-24
Posts: 1,492

Re: maglev - long distance travel

when we have a few well-established martian towns and industrial operations, i think a maglev transport network would be a great idea.  little fuel is needed to run the trains, they are extremely fast, and they can carry plenty of people and goods.  they can run constantly.  while air transport will be important, i think ground transport is also vital.  some goods might be too large to carry in rocketplanes. 

the cost of establishing a maglev system on mars would be much smaller than on earth.  why?  because here, we would have to build around pre-existing towns, cities, etc, and we would have to rip up old lines.  there, we just have to build over open ground between towns.  we could build our towns around the system.

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#2 2002-12-27 20:48:02

Echus_Chasma
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From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 2002-12-15
Posts: 190
Website

Re: maglev - long distance travel

Maglevs are those monorail type trains right?

They could be quite useful, especially over short distances were its ineffiecent to fly.


[url]http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Echus[/url]

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#3 2002-12-27 20:54:55

soph
Member
Registered: 2002-11-24
Posts: 1,492

Re: maglev - long distance travel

yes, but actually, it would be somewhat inefficient to have them go short distances.  like a plane, they have to accelerate and slow down, both of which take time, since they go hundreds of mph.  so, there application would be in medium to long distance travel.

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#4 2002-12-28 01:32:12

Josh Cryer
Moderator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: maglev - long distance travel

There was a thing on /. about a maglev within a vaccume tube. Apparently it could go some 5000 miles an hour. So you could go from the east coast to the west coast in an hour. Of course, you'd have to speed up half the way, and slow down the other half, but it would be quite brilliant if actually built. I think the efficiency of it was calculated to be very very high (much more efficient than planes). It was designed by NASA (NASA has some great ideas). I'll have to look it up sometime.


Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

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#5 2002-12-28 01:33:24

Josh Cryer
Moderator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: maglev - long distance travel

Ahh, here it is. Gotta love Google:

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/11/03/0 … ml?tid=126


Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

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#6 2002-12-31 12:11:46

sethmckiness
Banned
From: Iowa
Registered: 2002-09-20
Posts: 230

Re: maglev - long distance travel

As far as the rubber shattering, the tread compound would have to be softer.  In my own opinion, something like rubber, suited to the appropriate temperature would be the best due to it's friction coef. It would not have to be rubber,  Also, tires could be heated internally.  I am sure there are plenty of ways to make a vehicle that will fit the bill for transportation, using existing technologies, that would be inexpensive.


We are only limited by our Will and our Imagination.

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#7 2002-12-31 12:16:26

soph
Member
Registered: 2002-11-24
Posts: 1,492

Re: maglev - long distance travel

maglev doesnt touch the ground, i believe.  its suspended between two rails magnetically...or i could be wrong.

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#8 2002-12-31 15:11:34

Echus_Chasma
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 2002-12-15
Posts: 190
Website

Re: maglev - long distance travel

maglev doesnt touch the ground, i believe.  its suspended between two rails magnetically...or i could be wrong.

Maglev = Magnetic Levitation


[url]http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Echus[/url]

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#9 2002-12-31 15:12:41

soph
Member
Registered: 2002-11-24
Posts: 1,492

Re: maglev - long distance travel

i know  tongue

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#10 2002-12-31 15:20:29

Echus_Chasma
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 2002-12-15
Posts: 190
Website

Re: maglev - long distance travel

wink


[url]http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Echus[/url]

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#11 2002-12-31 21:21:52

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: maglev - long distance travel

I think the first mass transit on Mars would be something akin to a diesel truck pulling a lot of passenger cars.  Building a maglev train seems like it might be beyond the capabilities of small settlements since there probably wouldn't be enough labor available to lay down all of the track, tunnel segments, etc.  But maybe by that time there will be robotic technology that could do it all autonomously.  Generating the power for something like that might be a luxury early Mars colonies might not be able to afford.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#12 2002-12-31 21:28:22

soph
Member
Registered: 2002-11-24
Posts: 1,492

Re: maglev - long distance travel

if we used nuclear power from the start it might not be such a stretch.

i think on earth, connecting some of the major cities with maglev trains would be a brilliant project for the next 20 years.  maglev trains would expedite and lower the cost of cargo and passenger shipments tremendously.  the US is running on 150-200 year old train technology.  lets move into the future.  im not proposing we connect every bumble...er...poo town to a maglev web, just the major transportation and commercial hubs.

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#13 2003-01-01 15:38:58

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: maglev - long distance travel

I was thinking if we did build maglev type trains on Mars a lot of new settlements would probably spring up next to the tracks over time in the same fashion that old west towns often propped up next to railroads.  The train could keep these settlements supplied.  I'd like to see a section of the tubes that the maglev trains would use sectioned off and pressurized so people could actually walk in them from settlement to settlement.  It might be a good cure for claustrophobia especially if they use big radiation resistant windows.  The tubes would be huge but I think it would be worth it in the long run.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#14 2003-01-01 15:51:32

soph
Member
Registered: 2002-11-24
Posts: 1,492

Re: maglev - long distance travel

i was thinking that too  big_smile

notice that china is building, i believe, 300 miles of maglev tracks, first maglev ever built?

maybe itll give the West a kick in the read   wink  :0  ???

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#15 2003-01-02 16:28:58

el scorcho
Member
From: Charlottesville, VA
Registered: 2002-11-01
Posts: 61

Re: maglev - long distance travel

I've thought that maglev would be a good application on Mars for some time now. Anyone ever ridden the monorail system at Disney World? I believe it uses maglev technology, if I'm not mistaken. Quite a comfortable ride; also fast, cheap, efficient, and clean.

Something of concern on Mars will be making the major maglev tracks uniform in structure. In the southern US, when trains were first catching on, railroad construction was left to private businessowners, resulting in all the rails having different gauges (width between rails). The result was constant train-hopping since trains could not run on rails with different gauges. Needless to say, it was inconvenient and time-consuming.


"In the beginning, the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

-Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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#16 2003-01-02 16:36:02

soph
Member
Registered: 2002-11-24
Posts: 1,492

Re: maglev - long distance travel

government project.  yet another reason why i believe mars will need a strong central democracy...a strong government can get big projects done.

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#17 2003-01-17 16:20:21

orionblade
Banned
From: Hampton Virginia
Registered: 2003-01-14
Posts: 60

Re: maglev - long distance travel

why does maglev have to go fast? If you keep speeds down, you don't have to build as accurately, and you don't even need superconducting magnets. Permanent magnets would work just as well, and probbably weigh less in the long run, since you don't have all the cooling requirements (I'm assuming that daily temperature swings are too great to simply use a martian room temp. superconductor (aren't there some superconductors that work at least near dry ice temps?) In any case, you just line the track with magnets at a slight angle, one row on each side of the track, and then the train has magnets on the bottom, also at an angle. You lose a little lift capacity for the sake of stability. Take care, and keep the ideas flowing.
Rion

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#18 2003-01-18 00:14:51

Echus_Chasma
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 2002-12-15
Posts: 190
Website

Re: maglev - long distance travel

What about changing the voltage through the superconductor? Would that change the speed that the Maglev is travelling at?


[url]http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Echus[/url]

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#19 2003-01-18 01:07:16

orionblade
Banned
From: Hampton Virginia
Registered: 2003-01-14
Posts: 60

Re: maglev - long distance travel

no
the way you control speed is just like a regular motor with an armature rotating on a shaft and magnets on the housing, but in this case instead of spinning, the armature is superconducting and on the bottom of the train, moving in a straght line. still, it's wire cutting across magnetic field lines. the motor could be set up for current dependent speed, but you don;t want that. Heavier loads require more current to suspend the train an equal height above the rail bed. if you need to slow down and stop every once in a while, you'll have to turn off your voltage, and that sucks when you don't want to have wheels and all to actually land on a rail bed when you're setting in a station. permanent magnets let you use any technology you want for propulsion, but you don't burn energy while sitting still, except a set of small electromagnets that help keep you still, OR a simple set of clamps that you can lower to act as a stabliizer when you're sitting still and being loaded unevenly. kinda like those thi8ngs that drop down on fire trucks and front end loaders when they're on uneven terrain.
anyhow, if you go superconductor, you want the whole thing to act like an AC motor, where voltage doesn't vary the speed, it's the frequency of the pulses that governs the speed of the train. voltage in that case would be freed to allow a varying altitude above the rail bed. who knows, maybe we can find lots of niobium on mars, but i think iron would be easier to get, melt, and turn into permanent magnets.

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