Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

Phobos · 2002-10-27 01:24:42

I don't remember which article I cut and pasted these from but if you could choose a mission from these three which one one would you choose?

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(1) A mission to drop three entry probes into different parts of Jupiter's atmosphere simultaneously to make measurements at a much greater depth than the Galileo entry probe did -- after which the main carrier spacecraft will put itself into a polar orbit around Jupiter to further study the planet's atmospheric makeup and (through gravity and magnetic data) its internal structure.
(2) A mission to land a spacecraft on Venus which would hastily grab a surface sample and then inflate a heat-resistant balloon to loft itself back into the planet's safely cool cloud layer to analyze the sample in leisurely detail (as well as doing atmospheric studies).
(3) A craft to rendezvous with a comet, land very briefly on its nucleus to scoop up a 1-kg sample, and return it to Earth (with the sample being kept cool enough to prevent its water ice from melting, although the lower-temperature ices in it would be allowed to vaporize to cut the mission's cost, with their gases being preserved in the sample container).
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I'd choose mission two if the probe had cameras that could survive the crushing conditions of Venus. I want to see lakes of lead and the nature of its landscape in visible wavelengths and maybe a lucky glimpse of the Wild West town that exists there as reported in a popular tabloid a few years ago. But if cameras weren't allowed I'd vote for number three, the comet sample return mission.

Phobos · 2002-10-27 22:45:39

Yeah I change my mind to mission 4. And make that 25 people because I'm leaving this planet to.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-28 01:55:14

I choose number 3, because if we're ever going to stand a chance of pushing one of these babies off a collision course with Earth one day, we really should try to find out more about their structure.

Byron · 2002-10-28 06:29:56

On first thought, I'd chose No.1, as that would an excellent way to learn about the largest planet in the Solar System...and it would have the highest chance of successfully completing its mission.

But No. 3 certainly would be a close second, and in light of possible threats to Earth, I might have to agree with Shaun... Of course, in a perfect world, we'd launch all three, and get started on No. 4 right away, as well as No. 5, No. 6, ad infintum....

B

Palomar · 2002-10-28 12:41:57

*Number one, the Jupiter mission...definitely. I've always wondered just how deep the gas and cloud layers go...or is Jupiter just a big ball of gas? Arthur C. Clarke, in one of the "2001" sequels, suggests the core of Jupiter might be a diamond. Who Nellie! He also suggested there could be life in the Jupiter clouds, some sort of wispy creatures born aloft on the currents.

--Cindy

Phobos · 2002-10-28 20:16:08

I wonder if there will ever be technology that could survive a descent clear down to Jupiter's solid core. That would be an adventure indeed.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-29 00:39:09

Phobos ponders:-

I wonder if there will ever be technology that could survive a descent clear down to Jupiter's solid core. That would be an adventure indeed.

Didn't you read Cindy's post properly, Phobos?! About the diamond core?

I advocate putting the WOMEN in charge of your little mission, and making Cindy the project manager!
Once we tell 'em there's a 10 billion carat flawless white diamond at Jupiter's core, you can stop worrying about the technology .... those gals will DEFINITELY find a way!!!

Palomar · 2002-10-29 08:10:12

Phobos ponders:-
I wonder if there will ever be technology that could survive a descent clear down to Jupiter's solid core. That would be an adventure indeed.
Didn't you read Cindy's post properly, Phobos?! About the diamond core?
I advocate putting the WOMEN in charge of your little mission, and making Cindy the project manager!
Once we tell 'em there's a 10 billion carat flawless white diamond at Jupiter's core, you can stop worrying about the technology .... those gals will DEFINITELY find a way!!!

*Thank you, Shaun, for the very nice vote of confidence.

Actually, I'm more interested in Clarke's idea of Jupiter maybe having a diamond core for the sheer fantastic thought of it. Believe it or not, I'm not preferable to diamonds as a gemstone. I actually don't wear much jewelry, and hardly ever stop to fawn at the storefronts of jewelers.

And diamonds aren't a girl's best friend...BOOKS are!!

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2002-10-29 11:11:05

All the selections are probe based missions. Well, I'd pick Euorpia, even though it's not on the list.

Palomar · 2002-10-29 13:27:44

All the selections are probe based missions. Well, I'd pick Euorpia, even though it's not on the list.

*Europa, Europa -- RAH RAH RAH!! {{shakes pompoms enthusiastically}}

I thought about Europa too. Yep, a probe [or probeS] to Europa would've been my first pick if it'd been on the list, then Jupiter.

BTW, Josh, what the heck is your avatar supposed to be? Is NASA spying on us? You ARE wearing your metal helmet, are you not?

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-29 17:48:32

Cindy writes:-

And diamonds aren't a girl's best friend...BOOKS are!!

Gosh, things are really changing!
Sometimes I think I'm falling further and further behind the times ... !! :0

But then, I still know at least one woman who'd take a diamond over a copy of "War and Peace" any day of the week! And she happens to be not very far from where I'm sitting right this minute.

Palomar · 2002-10-29 20:04:17

Cindy writes:-
And diamonds aren't a girl's best friend...BOOKS are!!
Gosh, things are really changing!
Sometimes I think I'm falling further and further behind the times ... !! :0
But then, I still know at least one woman who'd take a diamond over a copy of "War and Peace" any day of the week! And she happens to be not very far from where I'm sitting right this minute.

*Truth be told, I'd take the personal libraries of Voltaire and Denis Diderot, both of which were purchased by Catherine the Great in the latter part of the 1770s and are still held in trust in Russia, over a 20-carat diamond any day!

Throw in the personal, handwritten papers of Malesherbes being kept in trust at Tocqueville, France, and I'd swear to never even look at another diamond again...ever.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-30 00:56:53

From such a keen student of philosophy, Cindy, I would expect no less!

(Shucks, ma'am! Fact is, I'm on your side. Hell ... a diamond ain't nuthin' but a pile o' soot by a diff'rent name, anyways!! )

Phobos · 2002-10-30 01:23:46

All the selections are probe based missions. Well, I'd pick Euorpia, even though it's not on the list.

I read about a possible way of determining information about Europa's ocean without having to actually drill. You could just use a sensitive microphone called a geophone to listen for signs of an ocean. I think I'm most looking forward to the Cassini-Huygens probe that's going to launch a lander onto Titan. In many ways I think Titan is the most fascinating location in the Solar System. Not only might it have liquid lakes of various chemicals, but it's atmosphere might be pressurized just right for humans. All you'd need is something to keep the cold and chemicals from eating you alive. I'm personally looking forward to seeing photos of Titan's sky, surface, and hopefully a few lakes to boot.

Phobos · 2002-10-30 20:29:47

Some whales maybe ?

Whales would be cool. I think they're hoping to hear sounds that give away the presence of liquid water as it shifts in relation to the ice. Something like that.

Shaun Barrett · 2002-10-31 01:06:25

Hi Phobos!

I'm with you on this Huygens probe mission. I hardly dare to think about those first pictures from beneath the Titanian clouds, in case something goes wrong and the mission fails!

For me, if it's successful, witnessing such an alien panorama will be one of the high points of my life ... on a par with seeing those first Viking pictures of Mars!

Does anybody know if the pictures will be in colour? Or is the light too dim to see colours properly anyway?
:0

Phobos · 2002-10-31 19:00:01

Hi Phobos!
I'm with you on this Huygens probe mission. I hardly dare to think about those first pictures from beneath the Titanian clouds, in case something goes wrong and the mission fails!
For me, if it's successful, witnessing such an alien panorama will be one of the high points of my life ... on a par with seeing those first Viking pictures of Mars!
Does anybody know if the pictures will be in colour? Or is the light too dim to see colours properly anyway?

I hope those photos come back in color! As long as we get the data back from the lander the rest of the probe can go crashing into Saturn and I'd still consider it a success. It'll be especially breath taking if we can see a shot with Saturn hanging in the sky. You might be right about the light level being too low though. I think Earth receives something like a 1000 watts of power per m^2 of solar energy and Saturn is only around 15 watts per m^2. Don't quote those, but if memory serves its something like that so light would be way dimmer.

Josh Cryer · 2002-10-31 23:59:04

Hi there Cindy.

Sorry for getting back to you so late. My avatar is actually a thumbnail of Rob Sheldons dusty-M2P2 prototype. Or rather, suspended particles within a magnetic field that work in a similar fasion as Saturns rings.

Rob Sheldon figures that if you suspend particles within a mini-magnetosphere, you can have what ammounts to a solar sail, only it would be a lot more effieicnt (arguably as efficient as physically possible), since there would be no need for a structure to hold up the sail. His solution to efficiently suspend those particles, is to just use a spinning magnet, in the same way Saturn keeps particles on a plane. The key is to simply find what particle would suspend most efficiently, and I believe he currently has a grant which helps him do just that.

Aetius · 2002-11-03 18:05:04

I think M2P2 is the wave of the future, personally.

I'd love to see a (no joke, really ) Uranus orbiter mission. After Mars and Earth, I think it's the neatest planet. Needs a new name, though.

I liked the names the French gave it back in the 18th century..."Herschel" and "Hypercronus" sounded much better than a name pronounced "your-ANUS". This is what the world gets for allowing a German astronomer like Bode to settle a dispute between the English (who wanted to name the planet 'Georgium Sidus' after King George III) and the French.

Oh, well. Guess they didn't fit into the mythological scheme of things. Once again I rant about the lack of a Uranus Orbiter mission.

Phobos · 2002-11-05 19:17:38

What's an M2P2 mission? And with a name like Hypercronus I think Ur, uh, that planet after Saturn would become my favorite planet! It sounds a little cyberpunkish. There has to be someway of getting a planet's name changed. Maybe we should put it up on the next ballot and after it wins, have a Supreme Court judge force the name change in much the same way that tomatoes were determined to be vegetables and not fruits.

Aetius · 2002-11-06 05:22:12

M2P2 is short for "Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion". It uses injected ions to drastically inflate an artificially generated electromagnetic field. This giant EM bubble interacts with the solar wind in the same way that a standard solar sail interacts with the Sun's photons. Because the solar wind particles are more efficient at transferring their momentum (and they also move at between 500,000 to 1,000,000 miles per hour), the M2P2 "bubble" doesn't have to be as big as a solar sail designed to achieve the same velocities.

And of course, you don't have miles and miles of floppy stuff (like solar sail material) to deploy on-orbit. The main drawback is that the solar wind, like the solar photon flux, gets much weaker out past the Asteroid Belt. You need to acquire as much speed as you can while you're closer to the Sun.

While the solar wind is variable, the size of the M2P2 bubble can be increased or decreased as necessary. The magnetic dipole of the bubble can also be tilted to allow complex maneuvering, just as with a conventional solar sail.

Neato mosquito!

Phobos · 2002-11-06 20:14:26

I know what your talking about now. I never heard of a plasma sail referred to as an M2P2 before but it makes sense.

Auqakah · 2002-12-26 13:03:50

I'll try door number one, please, Bob.

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#1 2002-10-27 01:24:42

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#2 2002-10-27 22:45:39

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#3 2002-10-28 01:55:14

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#4 2002-10-28 06:29:56

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#5 2002-10-28 12:41:57

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#6 2002-10-28 20:16:08

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#7 2002-10-29 00:39:09

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#8 2002-10-29 08:10:12

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#9 2002-10-29 11:11:05

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#10 2002-10-29 13:27:44

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#11 2002-10-29 17:48:32

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#12 2002-10-29 20:04:17

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#13 2002-10-30 00:56:53

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#14 2002-10-30 01:23:46

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#15 2002-10-30 20:29:47

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#16 2002-10-31 01:06:25

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#17 2002-10-31 19:00:01

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#18 2002-10-31 23:59:04

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#19 2002-11-03 18:05:04

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#20 2002-11-05 19:17:38

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#21 2002-11-06 05:22:12

Re: Which of these missions would you prefer - take a pick

#22 2002-11-06 20:14:26

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#23 2002-12-26 13:03:50

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