A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

Scott G. Beach · 2003-11-07 01:33:00

Section 10 of the Draft Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars established the proportions of the flag of that government. The height of the flag was to be two-thirds of the flag?s length. This is a ratio of 2 to 3 or, alternatively,1 to 1.5.

Section 10 has been revised to read as follows, ?The flag of this Government shall consist of three vertical stripes. The stripe at the hoist end of the flag shall be red, the central stripe shall be green, and the final stripe shall be blue. The width of each stripe shall be one-third of the flag length. The flag shall have the proportions of a Golden Rectangle; one unit of height and one and sixty two hundredths units of length.?

An example of a flag with these proportions may be viewed at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/index.htm.

A Golden Rectangle has the exact proportions of 1 to 1.618033988749... The number 1.618033988749... is known as Phi. The formula for calculating the Phi is the square root of 5 plus one divided by 2. The square of Phi is 2.618033988749... and the reciprocal of the Phi is 0.618033988749... Notice that in these three numbers all of the digits to the right of the decimal point are exactly the same. This is the only irrational number for which this is true. This fact has inspired Mario Livio the write that Phi is the most irrational of all the irrational numbers. See The Golden Ratio: The Story of Phi, The World?s Most Astonishing Number.

The red, green and blue color scheme of the Martian flag, as promoted by the Mars Society, is based on Kim Stanley Robinson?s trilogy Red Mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars. I believe that it would be better to explain that the flag?s red, green and blue color scheme is based on the fact that human color vision depends on three types of color receptors. One type of color receptor is sensitive to red light, another type is sensitive to green light, and a third type is sensitive to blue light. This explanation supports the idea that people all over this world can join together under the Martian flag in order to pursue the objective of transforming Mars into a bountiful and beautiful New Earth.

Cobra Commander · 2003-11-07 14:07:23

To be perfectly honest, I've never liked that flag. Not that I have anything against the symbolism behind it, I just think it's ugly. Bad color combination.

Josh Cryer · 2003-11-07 15:08:48

Hey, as long as I'm not required to fly it or otherwise worship it (ie, pledge allegience), I don't care what it looks like.

clark · 2003-11-07 15:10:38

good point.

Josh Cryer · 2003-11-07 17:56:15

I think you do a disservice to Scott's ideas, though. They're all quite unique, if not inspired, in my opinion. I've always been fascinated with numbers, so a flag based upon Phi is quite intriguing to me.

dicktice · 2003-11-09 15:01:22

I suggest the red/green/blue strips be horizontal instead of vertical, because under certain flapping conditions, it will take on all sorts of weird colour effects--perhaps even white! (Am I just kidding? I'm not sure....)

Ian Flint · 2003-11-25 11:52:50

I like this idea for a Martian flag. I would leave it up to the Martians themselves, though. This means I wouldn't want to place this red, green, and blue flag on the first landing.

If we leave the flags up to the martians, then what should we erect at the first base (assuming we even need a flag).

Some might say that the country who gets there first simply puts up their countries flag. America did that on the moon. That just sounds to nationalistic and arrogant. It's like claiming the planet for that country.

I thought that a better flag would be the Earth flag (Earth as seen from space). However, that still seems to be claiming Mars for Earth. Future martians might resent that.

I am currently thinking of using a flag with a simple outline of a human face or body. This would "claim" the planet not for one nation or another planet but for all of humanity.

What do you think?

Wim · 2003-11-25 14:26:51

I like the idea too, there's a nice Phi-story behind it, nice.
Indeed, it was too bad there was an American flag on the moon. If they just would have put the "humanity flag" there as well, sorry no would haves anymore.

Why not use a symbol (a statue of some kind), instead of a flag on Mars

It's just an evening thought ...

Rxke · 2003-11-25 15:30:46

Human face or body outline... Nice. But then again a thorny question: What colors??? You couldn't take colors referring to a certain skin type...

Cobra Commander · 2003-11-25 16:27:52

Or perhaps an outline of a human hand. And to avoid any whining about the color of the hand favoring a certain race, make it green. It's for Martians, after all...

Gennaro · 2003-11-25 18:54:18

Good points in this post. I agree that we shouldn't push a pre-fabricated flag on the future Martians. Let eventual Martian nations (mind the plural, you never know!) decide for themselves what kind of symbology they'd like to use!
On the other hand I don't object to Terran flags and I don't consider it arrogant provided the flag planting does not entail a claim of the entire planet. It symbolizes the crew and the settlement, that's all. If several countries work together on a specific mission plan, well, let all of their flags be represented.
But if you have to design a special Martian flag either for humanity in its entirety or for the new 'Martians', please, please, please do not use a tricolour!
We've seen nothing but tricolours for the last 200 years now, spreading to every corner of the globe. It's sooo boring!
Why not use some figurative elements instead? What about a fasces (okay maybe some bad associations there, but it's really most of all an Enlightenment age symbol), a sun with wavy rays, a laurel wreath or something? Anything!
Hey, that hand idea is actually rather good! Only people won't start thinking strictly about the hand of Saruman!
:laugh:

Scott G. Beach · 2003-11-25 22:13:23

Gennaro:

You wrote, ?We've seen nothing but tricolours for the last 200 years now, spreading to every corner of the globe. It's sooo boring!"

I agree that tricolor flags are boring. And I am not crazy about the red, green, and blue color combination, but I cannot change the fact that human color vision is based on these colors.

I have often seen U.S. flags that have fringes made of gold tassels. That gave me an idea for dressing up my phi-proportioned, tricolor design. I revised the specification for the flag to include a gold border that is one fortieth of the flag height. Take a look at the revised graphic. It is posted at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/index.htm.

clark · 2003-11-26 11:37:10

How about a dark blue field, with an eight point gold-yellow star located in the upper left corner of the flag (nearest the flag pole), and centered within the flag are two rings joined (think olympic rings), one ring is burgandy-red (on the right side of union), the other is a dark forest green ring (on the left side of union).

One sun, two worlds, linked.

Cobra Commander · 2003-11-26 19:44:31

Glad someone else mentioned the fasces idea, I rather like that one, bad assosciations aside. The members of the community bound together and all that, really quite fitting.

Hey, that hand idea is actually rather good! Only people won't start thinking strictly about the hand of Saruman!

Hah! Imagine the whining outcry if we planted a flag with a big white hand on it! It's worth doing just for the entertainment value of it.

I have often seen U.S. flags that have fringes made of gold tassels. That gave me an idea for dressing up my phi-proportioned, tricolor design. I revised the specification for the flag to include a gold border that is one fortieth of the flag height.

No offense intended Scott, but gold fringe just makes it even more unattractive. The symbolism of that flag is good in theory, but in practice it just doesn't work.

How about a dark blue field, with an eight point gold-yellow star located in the upper left corner of the flag (nearest the flag pole), and centered within the flag are two rings joined (think olympic rings), one ring is burgandy-red (on the right side of union), the other is a dark forest green ring (on the left side of union).
One sun, two worlds, linked.

I kinda like this one. More of a flag for a Sol Confederation or something than colonial Mars, but not bad.

Slap a big white hand holding fasces on there and you've really got something!

Scott G. Beach · 2003-11-27 15:42:36

How about a dark blue field, with an eight point gold-yellow star located in the upper left corner of the flag (nearest the flag pole), and centered within the flag are two rings joined (think olympic rings), one ring is burgandy-red (on the right side of union), the other is a dark forest green ring (on the left side of union).

Clark:

I modified your idea slightly. I used a nine-point sun; one point for each planet in the Solar system. Take a look and let me know what your think. This flag could be used as the flag of the City of Euthenia and The Euthenia Project.

http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/tepflag

Scott G. Beach · 2003-11-27 21:51:26

Clark:

I tweaked my version of your flag design a little. I toned down the red and green, made the border a little more golden in color, and added a small gold dot that represents the City of Euthenia. The flag has the proportions of a Golden Rectangle and the gold dot is located at a point in the rectangle referred to as ?the Eye of God? (see The Golden Ratio, by Mario Livio, page 85). One of the nine points of the Sun points toward the gold dot. See the revised flag at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/euthenia.htm

On those really scary nights, when there are monsters hiding under every bed, mothers in Euthenia could tell their children that ?God watches over the City of Euthenia.? But don?t tell A.J. about this or he might start hyperventilating.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-11-28 05:32:21

Just a small point, but Earth is known as the blue planet. How would it look with everything as it is but the background green and Earth blue (leaving Mars red, of course)?
Incidentally, how do people feel about making either Mars smaller or Earth bigger, to better represent their actual relative proportions? Or is this an unnecessary adherence to reality which would ruin the artistic cohesion of the design?

No canoe to paddle here! I'm just chewin' the rug.

clark · 2003-11-28 14:46:59

nicely done Scott, though the paint shop colors don't do the idea justice.

Think rings = orbit, so Mars would actually be the bigger of the two Shaun. :;):

For the sun, make a solid circle, with a small space between the 'rays'. The rays should number nine, but each ray should be a little triangle (use the golden ratio).

Blue should be a dark blue- as for Earth being tradionaly blue- earth is the home of life- green. Blue background represents the sea from which life arose, and space, the new sea we are delving into.

It's just symbolism, so anything can be argued either way. Perhaps a 'black' field... but that may be a bit somber...

Scott G. Beach · 2003-11-29 02:38:41

Shaun:

I tried reversing the Space and Earth colors as you suggested. That did not work very well because a yellow Sun in an ocean of green just did not provide enough contrast to make the Sun stand out the way it should.

I changed the relative sizes of the rings representing Earth and Mars. The diameters of those rings are now in a Golden Ratio (Phi to one). The horizontal center of Mars is a bit above the horizontal center of Earth. This represents the fact that the orbit of Mars is slightly inclined to the plane of the ecliptic.

Clark:

I changed the sun as you suggested. The nine triangles around the sun are Golden Triangles; i.e., they are isosceles triangles and they each have a 36-degree apex angle and 72-degree base angles.

I also made the blue background a little darker.

See these revisions at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/euthenia.htm

clark · 2003-12-01 11:40:57

Good job!

Now, let's try something a little different (if you're up to it).

Try a black background instead of the blue, with a gold trim around the flag. Keep the sun as is, it looks good. Now, for the 'rings': Make a dark blue ring, perhaps a bit oval-ish (greater length, than height) to denote the orbital path of Earth. Center the blue ring on the flag, and place a blue circle on the left hand side of the orbit ring. Next, place a red ring (similar to the blue one, but larger, and olval-ish) around the blue ring, with a red circle super-imposed over the blue circle (but have the red circle on the red rign as well.

So, in essence, you have the orbit rings joined on the left side (this should be the only palce the rings touch) by the two circles, red and blue. You have the larger blue world underneath the smaller red world (something akin to the new mars board symbols of crescent moons). All on a black flag, and gold sun.

Use the golden ration where neccessary.

Mundaka · 2004-01-28 01:22:10

Rxke · 2004-01-28 11:18:04

HAAARR Maties! Raise the mizzen! Whars me cutlass! Aaarrr!

Weird, all of a sudden i have a 'future vision' of a convoy of 10 big Macks in glinting black, speeding towards Florida, where the first Ares is waiting to be launched... The driver in the front truck wearing a pressure suit, strange...:p

errr...

Scott, can you check your links, please, i get a page not found... (I've visited it before, but now they're gone)

EDIT: it's working again... Must've been temporarily...

Cobra Commander · 2004-01-28 17:52:56

errr...
Scott, can you check your links, please, i get a page not found... (I've visited it before, but now they're gone)

Don't tell me that the people of Euthenia are rebelling already

dicktice · 2004-01-29 17:16:42

I suggest the red/green/blue strips be horizontal instead of vertical, because under certain flapping conditions, it will take on all sorts of weird colour effects--perhaps even white! (Am I just kidding? I'm not sure....)

I have reconsidered my remarks. The human eye is sensitive to red, green and blue LIGHT, which when viewed rapidly in sequence (or simultaneously of course) appear white. Dye pigments may not, necessarily. I just don't know.

dicktice · 2004-01-29 17:24:01

Clark:
I tweaked my version of your flag design a little. I toned down the red and green, made the border a little more golden in color, and added a small gold dot that represents the City of Euthenia. The flag has the proportions of a Golden Rectangle and the gold dot is located at a point in the rectangle referred to as ?the Eye of God? (see The Golden Ratio, by Mario Livio, page 85). One of the nine points of the Sun points toward the gold dot. See the revised flag at [http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/euthenia.htm]http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/euthenia.htm
On those really scary nights, when there are monsters hiding under every bed, mothers in Euthenia could tell their children that ?God watches over the City of Euthenia.? But don?t tell A.J. about this or he might start hyperventilating.

Your design strongly resembles a Chinese (I think) design "Sun."

[Later] I checked: It IS Taiwan--congratulations on re-invinting their Sun-symbol. Well, that's life.

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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Re: A Flag to Unite Terrans for Mars - Golden Ratio and Human Color Vision

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