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#1 2004-10-18 11:43:59

Palomar
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From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Chow in spaaaaaaace!

*I really like that pic, too.  cool

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#2 2004-10-18 12:16:08

SpaceNut
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Well I am not convinced just yet that food packed for the two year round plus journey will tantalize my taste buds when it comes time to eat that last meal before getting off that very long mission to explore the red planet.

I know that freezed dried food is not all that great at times from my experience from the many years in the boys scouts on camping trips.

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#3 2004-10-18 12:30:17

Palomar
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From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Well I am not convinced just yet that food packed for the two year round plus journey will tantalize my taste buds when it comes time to eat that last meal before getting off that very long mission to explore the red planet.

I know that freezed dried food is not all that great at times frm my experience from the many years in the boys scouts on camping trips.

*If we use the Mag-beam propulsion system it'll only be 90 days (travel-wise).   smile  Mag-beam!  Mag-beam!  -laugh-

I don't think I've ever had freeze-dried food.  Have seen plenty of packages, though, in camping aisles of sporting-good stores and etc.  ::shrugs::

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#4 2004-10-18 12:32:51

BWhite
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From: Chicago, Illinois
Registered: 2004-06-16
Posts: 2,635

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Powdered eggs have a 5 to 10 year shelf life without special NASA processing and allegedly cook up just fine.

Bring powdererd milk, flour etc. . . and fresh baked goods are no big deal.

= = =

Grow fresh fruits in the greenhouse and make crepes.  smile


Give someone a sufficient why and they can endure just about any how

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#5 2004-10-18 12:52:53

SpaceNut
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Well the mag-beam article I just read mentioned if funded that a test model could be working in 5 years.

As for fresh fruit we have only tried snow peas on the ISS. Would make a terrible substitute for blueberries.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996543

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#6 2004-10-18 19:51:18

RobS
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From: South Bend, IN
Registered: 2002-01-15
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Cindy, you start some of the most interesting threads!

This is a very sound approach to food, I think. Zubrin in *The Case for Mars* assumes a lot of frozen foods for the trip out and back. They have a lot of "unnecessary" water in them, but the water recycling system is assumed to be only 95% efficient, so the water in the food makes up for the losses. I think the same assumption is made for the surface phase even though water is more available there because of the hydrogen they're bringing along.

Zubrin also assumed dried foods; maybe half the total food was dried and half frozen. TV dinners are fine with me.

But even better than both is supplementation with freshly grown foods. Salads are the obvious; they can't be frozen or freeze-dried. I'm not sure what dried and powdered lettuce would look like, let alone taste like! But more than salads, I'd grow herbs, especially any that can spice up the freeze-dried and frozen meals: cilantero, basil, peppers, etc. And perhaps mint, which can be used to make mint tea (the national drink of Morocco!) and can be added to desserts. If strawberries can be grown, even better; they're an excellent source of vitamin C, they have antioxidants (which protect against radiation damage), and they taste yummy.

        -- RobS

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#7 2004-10-23 06:37:08

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

*Might look to Martha for additional ideas:

"Because inmates are allowed to use only a microwave to cook, Stewart is working with fellow prisoners to 'come up with some creative recipes' based on the limited number of ingredients available at the prison commissary, Dellinger said.

'She has a group that is cooking,'  he said.  'She is trying to figure out innovative ways to do microwave cooking, which is all they have.'"

Martha Stewart's prison "hobby"

I'm serious.  Though I don't consider myself a fan, I have watched quite a few of her cooking shows (quality!).  I'll be curious to see what she and her microwave group come up with.  Space agencies might want to take a peep over her shoulder as well.  They're working on very limited resources, obviously; microwave and limited number of ingredients in the commissary.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#8 2004-10-24 04:38:01

Trebuchet
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From: Florida
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 419

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Hermetically seal fresh food, irradiate it (thus killing the pesky microbes causing spoilage in the first place), then stow it on the ship. You don't HAVE to freeze the food, to keep it from spoiling.  :;):

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#9 2004-10-25 13:50:15

C M Edwards
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From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

*Might look to Martha for additional ideas:

[...]

I'll be curious to see what she and her microwave group come up with.  Space agencies might want to take a peep over her shoulder as well.

I've toyed with that idea myself. 

Martha Stewart is a fairly talented person and relatively observant.  If she could be persuaded to publish an account of her prison experiences from a professional perspective (rather than the typical "What I did at Camp Cupcake" memoir format), that could prove useful for both her fellow prisoners and the type of personel we're usually interested in around here.

Maybe I'll send her my infamous microwave barbeque chicken recipe..


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#10 2004-10-26 01:29:22

Shaun Barrett
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From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

RobS:-

I'm not sure what dried and powdered lettuce would look like, let alone taste like!

    Ble-echhhh!!   :bars: ..  big_smile

CM:-

Maybe I'll send her my infamous microwave barbeque chicken recipe...

    Sounds grim!  yikes ..  :laugh:

    Hmmm. Unless things in the food department start looking up, I may be forced to turn NASA down when they plead with me to lead the first expedition to Mars.
                                              tongue


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#11 2004-11-04 10:02:56

C M Edwards
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From: Lake Charles LA USA
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

The chow in space article laments an anticipated lack of cooking utensils and appliances on future space missions.  I wonder if that's really true.

Re-usable eating and cooking utensils - including pots and pans - needn't weigh more than a few kilograms.  Cooking and cleaning appliances needn't be very large or power hungry, either.  As a rule, industrial cooking processes and "quick fix" meals require more massive equipment and more packaging to store the foods.  We don't have to use those methods, though.  We just have to be willing to improvise and allow for a little extra time and labor. 

For example, everyone talking about how to cook food in space seems to love microwave ovens.  "Oh, the astronauts will have microwave ovens!  They're the best way to cook food in space!  Everything's prepared so easily!" and so on. 

I find mine to be a cantankerous old noisemaker whose only superior abilities revolve around defrosting chicken.  If they're going to be preparing meals from scratch rather than digging their food out of pre-packed MRE's, then I recommend the astronauts get a crock pot instead.

A crock pot is a cooking pot, made of a thick ceramic or some other material with a high heat capacity, that's covered and heated in an insulated casing.  A crock pot can be pressure sealed, and can cook anything that can be prepared in a standard convection oven, including bread.  Unlike a microwave, it will cook food evenly.  A typical crockpot consumes less than a quarter of the power of a microwave oven, has less than a fifth of the weight, and produces no significant RF interference.  Cooking time is longer than for a microwave, but, because of the reduced power consumption, total energy use is not greater.  Since crock pots only operate at the boiling point of water, they're not fire hazards and can be left to independent operation. 

Have the astronauts cook with a set of crock pots, (one for each daily meal still weighs less than a microwave), and there'll be no shortage of recipes for whatever they want to grow. 

Other useful substitutions for "must have" appliances are possible as well.  You just have to get away from the industrial cafeteria mentality.


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#12 2004-11-04 10:17:15

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

For example, everyone talking about how to cook food in space seems to love microwave ovens.  "Oh, the astronauts will have microwave ovens!  They're the best way to cook food in space!  Everything's prepared so easily!" and so on. 

I find mine to be a cantankerous old noisemaker whose only superior abilities revolve around defrosting chicken.  If they're going to be preparing meals from scratch rather than digging their food out of pre-packed MRE's, then I recommend the astronauts get a crock pot instead.

*Yep, I agree and I rarely use my microwave except for heating stuff up.  Have found that most microwave ovens don't distribute heat evenly, either.  A few other minor complaints I won't go into.  (Although I still think Stewart's informal prison study with that group of fellow inmates is a good idea).

Besides the actual cooking process in crock pots, they also can keep food warm for long periods of time; can serve as the leftover meal's storage container (if there are leftovers, ha ha); and of course can reheat food with them.  Essentially no-fuss cooking as well.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#13 2004-11-04 10:26:28

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Since crock pots only operate at the boiling point of water, they're not fire hazards and can be left to independent operation.

Just what is the boiling temperature in space? If the air pressure is lower the boiling point should be lower. But there is no gravity in space. So the bubbles won’t rise. Amway I suggest a pressure cooker. The pressure cooker may have to vibrate to help relieve the pressure. P.S. don’t crack eggs in zero G. The really make a mess.

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#14 2004-11-04 11:05:52

Palomar
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From: USA
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

I suggest a pressure cooker. The pressure cooker may have to vibrate to help relieve the pressure.

*Was thinking earlier about pressure cookers.  Have used them myself in cooking; a great time reducer.  However (even though it's rare), they can sometimes explode.  sad  I doubt any pressure cooker in space would use rubber rings, but if they "give" then the cooker can spew out a bit of a mess as well.  If used in space, will no doubt be ultra-high tech thingamabobs I'd give my eyeteeth for (well...maybe not).

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#15 2004-11-04 11:27:09

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

If used in space, will no doubt be ultra-high tech thingamabobs I'd give my eyeteeth for (well...maybe not).

Well I guess its high tech or artificial gravity.

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#16 2004-11-04 13:22:44

SpaceNut
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Posts: 17,843

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Well if I recall the outside on the sunny side of the ISS is 270 or so just make a thermal oven with an entry door into the ISS from that point with a thermal pane of glass to the outside for the solar rays to shine into your oven.

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#17 2004-11-04 14:48:29

C M Edwards
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From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Yes, Spacenut, a solar oven is a good idea, too.  It'll add mass, but the simplicity might be worth it.


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#18 2004-11-04 15:45:32

Rxke
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From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

you want those eggs sunny side up? Heehee...


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#19 2004-11-04 15:56:36

C M Edwards
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From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

MDRS Galley Picture, May 2004

See?  A crock pot.   cool

Not very gourmet looking, though.  Needs paint, water heater cabinet, partition to keep the computers out of the coffee, someplace better to stow the saltines, etc.  You'd think if they would plan to build it, they would plan to finish it.


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#20 2004-11-04 22:00:28

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 17,843

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Thanks C M Edwards for the photo of the Mars Desert research facility. I sort of half wondered why the lights are on the wall but I suppose as long as they are not on the floor they aught to work out just fine.

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#21 2004-12-08 06:41:36

Palomar
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From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

More cooking on the way to Mars

*Yeah, I'm glad we're past that toothpaste "food"!  tongue

Larrat worked with Advanced Life Support Center scientists at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida to determine how small amounts of gases emitted by plants can affect their spacecraft surroundings.

"It's more than just turning carbon dioxide into oxygen," Larrat said. "There are minute quantities of other gases that on Earth you'd never think about."

On Earth, those gases would simply dissipate in the wide open sky, but not aboard an enclosed spacecraft.

The gases from lettuce, for example, may hinder the growth of radishes and impact the food source from within, Larrat said. Meanwhile, a future Mars crew would be living in close quarters with its food supply, so astronauts would have to be carefully screened for allergens to make sure they weren't allergic to any of the onboard plants

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#22 2004-12-08 14:18:11

C M Edwards
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From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

That electric current oven sounds interesting. 

Did you know that - contrary to popular misconception - it isn't microwave resonance that heats food in a microwave but electric current?  Most food conducts electricity, so like any conductor it develops electric charge under microwave radiation (just like a metal antenna) and those charges flow.  That's also why glass, ceramic and paper containers don't get very hot above the fill line in a microwave - they don't conduct electricity, so they don't heat up.

Imagine just sticking a couple of paddles up against the food, shouting "clear!" and jump-starting your dinner.  That would be better than a microwave.   cool


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#23 2004-12-09 13:40:45

Palomar
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From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Imagine just sticking a couple of paddles up against the food, shouting "clear!" and jump-starting your dinner.  That would be better than a microwave.   cool

*Lol!

"Heat your food while getting practice in defibrillation techniques at the same time!"  big_smile 

Did you know that - contrary to popular misconception - it isn't microwave resonance that heats food in a microwave but electric current?  Most food conducts electricity, so like any conductor it develops electric charge under microwave radiation (just like a metal antenna) and those charges flow.  That's also why glass, ceramic and paper containers don't get very hot above the fill line in a microwave - they don't conduct electricity, so they don't heat up.

*I might have known that...but I'm not too knowledgeable about things of this nature.  I just know which buttons to push.   :;):

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#24 2004-12-20 09:59:54

SpaceNut
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Developing Good Eats for Space Missions Space Scientists Looking for Ways to Make Food Better, Longer Lasting

With all the recent news of the crew aboard the ISS needing to leave from eating themselves out of house and home it plays right into what would we do on the long journey and duration stay on mars.

First not stove and now no fridge, what else can we not provide for those that go beyound? ???

Hungry? Chances are you can satisfy your craving pretty easily. But imagine you are encased in a small craft hurdling some 30 million miles from Earth and there's nothing good in the fridge — actually, there's no fridge.

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#25 2004-12-20 22:52:45

GraemeSkinner
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From: Eden Hall, Cumbria
Registered: 2004-02-20
Posts: 563
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Re: Gourmet Cooking en route to Mars

Developing Good Eats for Space Missions Space Scientists Looking for Ways to Make Food Better, Longer Lasting
With all the recent news of the crew aboard the ISS needing to leave from eating themselves out of house and home it plays right into what would we do on the long journey and duration stay on mars.
First not stove and now no fridge, what else can we not provide for those that go beyound? ???

Okay, I can cope with the cramped conditions, the annoying company (well it would be annoying after being stuck together that close for ages), I can even cope with poor food - but no fridge = no cold beer, hey, I'm staying at home!

Graeme


There was a young lady named Bright.
Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day
in a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
--Arthur Buller--

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