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#1 2004-03-29 10:49:08

Bill White
Member
Registered: 2001-09-09
Posts: 2,114

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Jesuit brother Guy Consolmagno said this, in an interview:

Some people think that if we discovered life on other planets, that would throw our whole Christian belief system up for grabs. A fellow named Stephen Dick wrote a book on the history of human attitudes toward extraterrestrial life. He says that the people who say discovering life on other planets would mean the end of religion are already atheists. In fact, religious people don't believe that would be a problem at all. I think we recognize that if they're from Alpha Centauri or from the next galaxy over, they're still God's creation. It's all God's creation! [b:post_uid0]If we ever find intelligent life, we'll have an interesting dialogue about the nature of the Incarnation. Alternatively, it could be that we're the only ones out there. I don't know which would be scarier.[/b:post_uid0] [/quote:post_uid0]

http://www.uscatholic.org/2002/12/featb0212.htm

Which would be scarier, if humanity were the ONLY sentient species in the galaxy/cosmos =or= humanity is not the only sentient species (and those evil Klingons are watching us right now!)[/color:post_uid0]

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#2 2004-03-29 11:01:09

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]<poof>

And a universe of light, went dark...

A lot of responsibility if we're the only ones.[/color:post_uid0]

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#3 2004-03-29 11:51:55

Byron
Member
From: Florida, USA
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 844

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Which would be scarier, if humanity were the ONLY sentient species in the galaxy/cosmos =or= humanity is not the only sentient species (and those evil Klingons are watching us right now!)[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]I think it would be scarier if we're the only ones...even scarier if life in general isn't found outside the Solar System. 

But that's not to say that the prospect of beings far advanced than us humans, who may be circulating in our midst at this very moment in some yet-to-be-discovered dimension or whatever isn't pretty danged scary in of itself...   yikes

B[/color:post_uid0]

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#4 2004-03-29 11:55:39

Bill White
Member
Registered: 2001-09-09
Posts: 2,114

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

<poof>

And a universe of light, went dark...

A lot of responsibility if we're the only ones.[/quote:post_uid0]
Hmmm. . .

The cold sterile radiation scarred claustrophia inducing red/browns of Mars don't seem quite so scary, anymore.  :;):

= = =

Spacefaring:

If not us, [b:post_uid0]then who?[/b:post_uid0]

If not now, [b:post_uid0]then when?[/b:post_uid0]

If not Mars, [b:post_uid0]then where?[/b:post_uid0][/color:post_uid0]

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#5 2004-03-29 12:08:07

Marineris Sauce
Member
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-15
Posts: 39

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I wouldn't be so much scared as shocked. If we are the only ones, to quote the lovely astronomer in the film Contact, "It would be an aweful waste of space...". What would that say for the Drake Equation? The odds are staggeringly small, I would think. On the other hand, we would have a tremendous amount of planetary space to colonize and ooodles of resources all to ourselves. But I suspect this very, very, [b:post_uid0]VERY[/b:post_uid0] unlikely.

...the prospect of beings far advanced than us humans, who may be circulating in our midst at this very moment in some yet-to-be-discovered dimension or whatever isn't pretty danged scary in of itself.[/quote:post_uid0]
If the beings were far more advanced then perhaps they could 'see into' our dimension - assuming we're [b:post_uid0]not[/b:post_uid0] talking parallel universes - but if we're talking parallel universes, then they would be no more aware of us then we are of them. In fact most of those 'entities' within the universes [i:post_uid0]closest[/i:post_uid0] to us would be 'us'. At least according to Deutsch. That's of couse if you take any stock in David Deutsche's multiverse theory.[/color:post_uid0]

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#6 2004-03-29 12:12:24

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]What if we're not alone, but the intelligent life out there is [b:post_uid0]exactly[/b:post_uid0] like us. In other words, a universe filled with homo-sapiens as the eventual result of evolutionary development.

Would that make us alone, or not?  yikes[/color:post_uid0]

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#7 2004-03-29 12:30:17

Byron
Member
From: Florida, USA
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 844

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

What if we're not alone, but the intelligent life out there is [b:post_uid0]exactly[/b:post_uid0] like us. In other words, a universe filled with homo-sapiens as the eventual result of evolutionary development.

Would that make us alone, or not?  yikes[/quote:post_uid0]
Interesting question. 

But I think if there really were [i:post_uid0]doppleganger[/i:post_uid0] races of homo sapiens in other planetary systems, we wouldn't be "alone", so to speak, unless we were all part of a "master" race of humans that originated in the distant past and managed to seed the entire galaxy with human genetic "offspring."  Even then, we'd be less "alone" than before, simply because we would know that we're not the only group of sentient beings residing in this universe.

B[/color:post_uid0]

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#8 2004-03-29 12:32:13

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

."  Even then, we'd be less "alone" than before, simply because we would know that we're not the only group of sentient beings residing in this galaxy.
[/quote:post_uid0]

Hmmm, I have some neighbors. I'm pretty sure they're sentient. Does that make us less 'alone'?  big_smile[/color:post_uid0]

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#9 2004-03-29 12:43:42

Byron
Member
From: Florida, USA
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 844

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

."  Even then, we'd be less "alone" than before, simply because we would know that we're not the only group of sentient beings residing in this galaxy.
[/quote:post_uid0]

Hmmm, I have some neighbors. I'm pretty sure they're sentient. Does that make us less 'alone'?  big_smile[/quote:post_uid0]
Um, I suppose it depends on how friendly we are to each other...lol.. tongue

Another thought...if there really are other sentinent beings out there, which presumably would be far more advanced than us (since our recorded history only goes back about 10,000 years...a mere blink of an eye in the grander scheme of things)...might they see us as we might see lessor life forms on this planet?  They may very well see us as such an infancile species that we're not even worth their time until we reach a certain benchmark, such as FTL travel or whatever.  Does that mean we're still "alone" until we get our act together and join the Club so to speak?  (Assuming they have a hands-off policy similar to the Prime Directive...lol..)[/color:post_uid0]

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#10 2004-03-29 18:26:47

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid4]*Interesting question.  I'm afraid I can't "vote" on it, however, because it's a very "loaded" question:  To be scared of life being out there smacks of xenophobia.  To be afraid of being alone in the universe smacks of immaturity/dependence.

And it doesn't matter how we feel about it, really; either we're alone or we're not.  (But yes, I understand the "suspense" which lies in not knowing and wondering if we ever will).

I do doubt, however, given the vastness of the universe -- amongst trillions of galaxies and billions upon billions of stars in them --, that we are "it."  I doubt life is "teeming" out there, but I'd be absolutely surprised if it could be proven there's less than 6 planets with intelligent life on them.

What intrigues me (just one among many, of course) the most is if we will ever detect them, or they us.  I recall Arthur C. Clarke's _Rendezvous with Rama_ -- an object traveling inward from the outer Solar System towards the Sun.  It's a craft from beyond, lured into our System by the Sun's gravity but calculated to not be pulled in as a satellite, and to continue on its merry way.  What are the odds something like that would happen, given the sheer vastness of the universe as we know it?  I think of SETI, which I fully support...but what exactly is the range of the most powerful radio telescope?; it seems the toss of a tiny pebble into the Pacific Ocean.  But it's worth the effort, IMO. 

--Cindy[/color:post_uid4]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#11 2004-03-30 09:52:12

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

Interesting question.  I'm afraid I can't "vote" on it, however, because it's a very "loaded" question:  To be scared of life being out there smacks of xenophobia.  To be afraid of being alone in the universe smacks of immaturity/dependence[/quote:post_uid0]

Well boys, looks like most of us here smack of immaturity and/or dependence.  roll

Have a nickel Lucy.  :laugh:[/color:post_uid0]

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#12 2004-03-30 17:36:54

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, I voted for "alone" being scarier, but I must qualify that. Do I find the prospect terrifying on some philosophical level? No. Nor do I dismiss it as highly improbable, we simply don't have enough data to make a guess. One example doesn't cut it.

The problem I see is this: Human technological progress has historically been very heavily dependent on killing things, usually each other, and finding ever more effective ways of doing so. If the universe has other sentient life, we can comfortably continue our natural behavior of kicking ass, or having it kicked depending on what we run into. At least we know the paradigm and we adapt quickly to this sort of thing.

Otherwise, if we are alone, we have three options.
1) Change our basic, violent nature. I don't see this happening anytime soon.

2) Find something that motivates us as well as the hate/rage/fear that makes us find ingenious new ways of killing our fellow man with minimal effort. So far, I haven't seen it. Unless we want to stagnate, we need that alternative. "Exploration" won't cut it for long or as well, there's no urgency.

3) Keep butchering each other over something or other until the end of our species, whether by our own doing or otherwise. This, well... sucks. I'd much rather go out into the universe and duke it out with the lizard people than show up at Alpha Centauri only to fight some guys from New York over a parking space!

So all you Reptiloids, I'm calling you out.  big_smile
I hear there's WMD's out there, too. C'mon Dubya, I'm trying to give you motivation here...[/color:post_uid0]


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#13 2004-03-30 20:05:03

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid5]

Interesting question.  I'm afraid I can't "vote" on it, however, because it's a very "loaded" question:  To be scared of life being out there smacks of xenophobia.  To be afraid of being alone in the universe smacks of immaturity/dependence[/quote:post_uid5]

Well boys, looks like most of us here smack of immaturity and/or dependence.  roll

Have a nickel Lucy.  :laugh:[/quote:post_uid5]
*LOL! 

Keep your nickel, Charlie Brown.  You need it more than I do!

What a sense of humor Clark has.

--Cindy  :laugh:[/color:post_uid5]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#14 2004-03-31 12:15:13

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Thanks Lucy.

Want to play some football? I'm such a sucker for your honest face.  :laugh:[/color:post_uid0]

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#15 2004-03-31 13:56:27

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#8D38C9:post_uid4]

I'd much rather go out into the universe and duke it out with the lizard people than show up at Alpha Centauri only to fight some guys from New York over a parking space!

So all you Reptiloids, I'm calling you out.  big_smile
I hear there's WMD's out there, too. C'mon Dubya, I'm trying to give you motivation here...[/quote:post_uid4]
*I don't mean to get off-topic, but it seems the majority of alien "imagery" has and continues to revolve around monsters, reptiles, etc.  I always favored the sleek, slender alien beings clad in silver, who waxed philosophical whenever called upon to oversee a problem...sort of like the young gentleman refereeing the end fight of Captain Kirk against that lizard captain on that one Star Trek episode...I can't recall the name of the episode right now.  ???

"Angels" and "demons" once again, perhaps.

Also, I wonder if (as has often been suggested) mankind would become less combative and war-like, and more cooperative and peaceful after a nuclear war (even if centuries previously).

Cobra Commander, I think you're calling out the wrong "warrior" (Dubya)...but whatever.

--Cindy  smile[/color:post_uid4]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#16 2004-03-31 14:02:54

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

I always favored the sleek, slender alien beings clad in silver, who waxed philosophical whenever called upon to oversee a problem...sort of like the young gentleman refereeing the end fight of Captain Kirk against that lizard captain on that one Star Trek episode...I can't recall the name of the episode right now.  [/quote:post_uid0]

Cute aliens who watch us fight for sport. Everyone loves the Romans.[/color:post_uid0]

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#17 2004-03-31 15:28:04

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

I always favored the sleek, slender alien beings clad in silver, who waxed philosophical whenever called upon to oversee a problem...sort of like the young gentleman refereeing the end fight of Captain Kirk against that lizard captain on that one Star Trek episode...I can't recall the name of the episode right now.  [/quote:post_uid0]

Cute aliens who watch us fight for sport. Everyone loves the Romans.[/quote:post_uid0]
:laugh: 

Given the choice, I'd rather be in the stands than on the field.

Also, I wonder if (as has often been suggested) mankind would become less combative and war-like, and more cooperative and peaceful after a nuclear war (even if centuries previously).
[/quote:post_uid0]

I'd think so, but it would wear off pretty quick. One generation, maybe.

Cobra Commander, I think you're calling out the wrong "warrior" (Dubya)...but whatever.

--Cindy  [/quote:post_uid0]

Yeah, it's a longshot... Best one we've had in a long time, but not encouraging. Just a foothold on another planet, that's all I'm asking...  ???[/color:post_uid0]


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#18 2004-03-31 16:05:14

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid5]

I always favored the sleek, slender alien beings clad in silver, who waxed philosophical whenever called upon to oversee a problem...sort of like the young gentleman refereeing the end fight of Captain Kirk against that lizard captain on that one Star Trek episode...I can't recall the name of the episode right now.  [/quote:post_uid5]

Cute aliens who watch us fight for sport. Everyone loves the Romans.[/color:post_uid5][/quote:post_uid5]
[color=#8D38C9:post_uid5]*Whoa, I think I recalled that episode incorrectly.  sad 

Didn't the silver-clad alien appear in order to STOP the hostilities?

Oh well, been a while (years?) since I've watched the original episodes.  :sighs:

--Cindy[/color:post_uid5]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#19 2004-03-31 16:07:00

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Cute aliens who mother us.

I thought that was what government was for you liberal airhead.  :laugh:[/color:post_uid0]

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#20 2004-03-31 16:12:00

Cobra Commander
Member
From: The outskirts of Detroit.
Registered: 2002-04-09
Posts: 3,039

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

*Whoa, I think I recalled that episode incorrectly.   

Didn't the silver-clad alien appear in order to STOP the hostilities?
[/quote:post_uid0]

That original reply pulled me in and I went to post and it was gone! Damn disorienting.

"Arena"
Episode 18

Yes, I knew the title, but I had to look up the number. No Trekkie jokes!  :laugh:

The aliens (Metrons) abducted Kirk and the Gorn captain, absconded with them to an asteroid that looked remarkably like Southern California, and had them fight one on one to the death... in the interests of peace.
Kirk convinced the Metrons that there's hope for our species by building a cannon and just wounding the Gorn instead of killing him. So the Metrons let both of 'em go.

Stupid Metrons. I think they were just bored, myself.[/color:post_uid0]


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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#21 2004-03-31 16:13:56

Bill White
Member
Registered: 2001-09-09
Posts: 2,114

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

*Whoa, I think I recalled that episode incorrectly.   

Didn't the silver-clad alien appear in order to STOP the hostilities?
[/quote:post_uid0]

That original reply pulled me in and I went to post and it was gone! Damn disorienting.

"Arena"
Episode 18

Yes, I knew the title, but I had to look up the number. No Trekkie jokes!  :laugh:

The aliens (Metrons) abducted Kirk and the Gorn captain, absconded with them to an asteroid that looked remarkably like Southern California, and had them fight one on one to the death... in the interests of peace.
Kirk convinced the Metrons that there's hope for our species by building a cannon and just wounding the Gorn instead of killing him. So the Metrons let both of 'em go.

Stupid Metrons. I think they were just bored, myself.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Kirk displayed the "advanced trait" of mercy. You forgot that, you pagan. :;):[/color:post_uid0]

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#22 2004-03-31 16:17:02

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Didn't the Metrons display the advanced trait? They let them go afterall. Godless aliens that they are.  big_smile[/color:post_uid0]

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#23 2004-03-31 16:19:35

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid5]

*Whoa, I think I recalled that episode incorrectly.   

Didn't the silver-clad alien appear in order to STOP the hostilities?
[/quote:post_uid5]

That original reply pulled me in and I went to post and it was gone! Damn disorienting.

"Arena"
Episode 18

Yes, I knew the title, but I had to look up the number. No Trekkie jokes!  :laugh:

The aliens (Metrons) abducted Kirk and the Gorn captain, absconded with them to an asteroid that looked remarkably like Southern California, and had them fight one on one to the death... in the interests of peace.
Kirk convinced the Metrons that there's hope for our species by building a cannon and just wounding the Gorn instead of killing him. So the Metrons let both of 'em go.

Stupid Metrons. I think they were just bored, myself.[/color:post_uid5][/quote:post_uid5]
[color=#8D38C9:post_uid5]*I really should brush up on my Star Trek again.  Ah well, time considerations.

Okay, forget the Metrons. 

But I have my alien preferences (sans slime and scales).

---

Clark wrote:  "Cute aliens who mother us.

I thought that was what government was for you liberal airhead."

*That coming from a person who scored pretty darned close to me on at least one of those political tests.  :laugh:  Thanks for the additional humor, Clark Airhead.  smile

--Cindy[/color:post_uid5]


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#24 2004-03-31 16:25:11

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I know. But I'm getting used to failing tests. :laugh:[/color:post_uid0]

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#25 2004-04-03 14:18:53

Mad Grad Student
Member
From: Phoenix, Arizona, North Americ
Registered: 2003-11-09
Posts: 498
Website

Re: Which wold be "scarier" - Alone or not alone

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Hm, wasn't there another episode of Star Trek where Kirk was forced to fight Spock to the death? I'm not very proficient on the original series, just the movies and Next Generation, but I seem to remember this being on of the classics. Futurama did a parody of it where the main character Fry is forced to fight Dr. Zoidberg on his home Crab Planet. Somehow they even got the music from the original Star Trek episode to play during the battle! Has anyone here seen Futurama?

The other episode you refer to also had a Futurama pardoy done of it, much later in the series's run. In it the Planet Express crew tries to rescue the original Star Trek cast, only to find themselves on an alien planet where a giant intellegant cloud thing forces them to fight each other to the death. In the end the two groups unite to escape, and it turns out the cloud thing is just a 30-year-old Trekkie living in his mom's basement who "collected" the original cast. It's pretty funny, especially because they got the got the actual cast to do their voices, except for DeForest Kelly, of course, and for some odd reason Scotty, too. Does anyone know the name of the actor who plays Scotty, or why/how he (Supposedly) accidentally ate Spock?[/color:post_uid0]


A mind is like a parachute- it works best when open.

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