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#1 2002-06-24 13:41:21

bradguth
Member
From: Olalla, Washington
Registered: 2002-05-21
Posts: 7
Website

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

When you're running a bit low on medication, at least in my case, you start to focus or perhaps lose focus upon certain other possibilities.

If we are looking for reasons and thereby logic as to why and how our world has been so devastated upon several clearly recorded occasions, then it seems entirely worthy as to our considering what others may have to offer, like about that 12th planet or whatever dead star issue. How can considering such possibilities possibly hurt?

I've created another isolated page as pertaining to that of mostly "other stuff" (http://geocities.con/bradguth/other-stuff.htm) that has this link posted: http://www.zetatalk.com/poleshft/p29.htm and there seems to be many others posting upon this 12th planet issue.

Obviously NASA has far better things to do, then as to saving mankind. However, there should be others out there with parallel/internet (multi hundred million node processing power software programs), that which can run out a few thousand trillion computations based upon those "what if's". How can that hurt? Seems like a worthy exercise in melting down some of these idle computer processors. Think of this as a reliable duty cycle test of those supposedly capable PC's that are otherwise downloading mass quantities of those Mars images or better yet and entirely more valuable smut.

As to that of our solar system collapsing or not. I seem to recall the "BIG BANG" theory, which I thought clearly established that at least at some point in time we will all become one. Until then, it seems only somewhat logical that unless something like a 12th planet with sufficient mass and speed were to get involved, that our sun (due mostly to gravity) would continue to acquire more inbound mass then it rejects (that includes you and me). I also recall reports of exploding matter being recorded, so this tells me that at least so far we're in a good location and those that blew up were obviously not (those lucky survivors are now headed somewhere on whatever is left of their frozen planets, just like my planetary evolution conjecture suggested): http://geocities.com/bradguth/conjecture-01.htm

"What makes you think Venus is an extrasolar object?"

It seems that planet rotation speed is simply another reasonable conjecture, worthy of calibrating upon a planet's age, especially if it were assumed as being created at the same moment as Earth and Mars. Obviously, I believe Venus has been running down for a few billion years longer then Earth (or, are you going to start in by indicating that planets like Earth and Venus are actually speeding up?). So how can that be if you whish to only consider that we (Earth) were here either first or at least at the exact same time and thus created by the same event, as under the exact same criteria (seems Venus, Earth and Mars should each be rotating at nearly the same rate and conceivably as more unified orbits, likewise perhaps, our moon should still be rotating, so how about when and where the hell did it come from? or, perhaps our moon was acquired and/or created from the Earth/Venus EL1+VL2 event).

Thanks to the input of others, I've since updated my page on that, as I somewhat agree that what NASA and you "suggest" were entirely valid considerations (a whole lot better then their moles at "uplink.space.com" could ever come up with, so, I wonder what their problem was?). As my moon-02.htm update now reads; I feel that a sufficient number of those star like indications are in fact stars, as I've also enhanced upon other lunar surface images that seemed to indicate some rather dim stars, of which I'm not qualified as to identify in any relationship as to whether or not they are where they need to be (I obviously have my doubts as to their being where they truly need to be). Perhaps your keen eyes and/or the expertise of others can offer something as to resolving that issue.

I've also created a "positive" and counter "negative" page, both of which I'll update and apply whatever others, such as yourself, might care to offer:
http://geocities.com/bradguth/positive.htm and http://geocities.com/bradguth/negative.htm

If we each proceed to delve into these negative issues, it's not all that likely that either of us will ever get off the bar stools we're sitting on. Since you nor I can't do all that much about the past, it seems somewhat more pressing and worthy as to be focusing upon the "positive" issues rather then the "negatives". Don't you agree?

negative.htmpositive.htm

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#2 2002-06-24 16:27:52

Adrian
Moderator
From: London, United Kingdom
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 642
Website

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

I have got no idea what this has to do with Human Missions to Mars, and it smells to me very much like an intelligent alien topic (Venus as extrasolar - constructed? - object). So that's where it goes.


Editor of New Mars

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#3 2002-06-24 21:55:21

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

As to that of our solar system collapsing or not. I seem to recall the "BIG BANG" theory, which I thought clearly established that at least at some point in time we will all become one. [/quote:post_uid0]

Actually the predominant view point now seems to be that the universe will continue expanding and suffer a heat death rather than contract.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#4 2002-07-06 23:07:27

Canth
Member
Registered: 2002-04-21
Posts: 126

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

What happened to the 10th and 11th planets. Also if a planet were that bright it would be known from one of the all sky surveys. To have been missed up to this point it would have to be exceedingly faint, more than pluto. It is however quite possible there are additional planets especially if you count pluto sized objects as planets. A small gas giant couldeven have been missed out beyond pluto. There are several groups of astronomers who postulate an additional relativly large planet. Perhaps future very faint detection full sky surveys which come back over the same spot will find additional planets. It will be interesting to see what comes up.

Our understanding of the universe is currently in a state of flux. What with the rapid changes in cosmology in the last few years many are unsure of the fate of the universe. A big crunch however seems very unlikely. There is a group of theories gaining popularity which suggest that the universe may have begun and may be changed ocassionally through collisions with other universes in higher dimentions. It is mostly amused speculation at this point though.

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#5 2002-07-10 20:36:42

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

Bradguth's idea that Venus is older than Earth and Mars because its rotation rate is slower is fatally flawed.
   4.5 billion years ago (roughly), just after Luna was formed by that monumental collision, Earth was rotating once every 5 hours. It would still be rotating about once every 5 hours except for the influence of the Moon! Tidal forces worked to slow Earth's rotation, capture the Moon's rotation, and simultaneously move the Moon further and further away from Earth. All this because of that impact!
   A planet the size of Earth or Venus has enormous energy stored up in its angular momentum. Without external influences, that momentum is maintained because energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So a planet will maintain its rotation rate virtually indefinitely unless it is acted upon by something else .... say, a major impact or tidal forces.
   In other words, Venus' slow rotation gives absolutely no indication whatsoever as to its age. The most likely explanation is probably a massive impact early in the history of the solar system, though nobody knows for sure.
                                            smile


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#6 2002-07-10 21:16:24

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

As to that of our solar system collapsing or not. I seem to recall the "BIG BANG" theory, which I thought clearly established that at least at some point in time we will all become one. [/quote:post_uid3]

Actually the predominant view point now seems to be that the universe will continue expanding and suffer a heat death rather than contract.[/quote:post_uid3]
*I'm betting, if there is a God, eventually S/He will get out a gargantuan spatula and flip the Universe over like a pancake.

Of course, I could be wrong.

--Cindy

P.S.:  Yes, I'm in a zany mood!


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#7 2002-07-12 23:39:31

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

Hope S/He knows what S/He's doing with that spatula .... does the phrase "out of the frying pan into the fire" mean anything to you ... ?!!
                                       sad


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#8 2002-07-13 08:06:30

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

Hope S/He knows what S/He's doing with that spatula .... does the phrase "out of the frying pan into the fire" mean anything to you ... ?!!
                                       sad[/quote:post_uid3]
*Hey, if S/He has as steady a hand as I do when I'm flipping pancakes, everything's going to be just fiiiiine.  Upside-down maybe...but just fiiiiine  big_smile

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#9 2002-11-28 14:19:11

dicktice
Member
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2002-11-01
Posts: 1,764

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

Bradguth's idea that Venus is older than Earth and Mars because its rotation rate is slower is fatally flawed.
   4.5 billion years ago (roughly), just after Luna was formed by that monumental collision, Earth was rotating once every 5 hours. It would still be rotating about once every 5 hours except for the influence of the Moon! Tidal forces worked to slow Earth's rotation, capture the Moon's rotation, and simultaneously move the Moon further and further away from Earth. All this because of that impact!
   A planet the size of Earth or Venus has enormous energy stored up in its angular momentum. Without external influences, that momentum is maintained because energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So a planet will maintain its rotation rate virtually indefinitely unless it is acted upon by something else .... say, a major impact or tidal forces.
   In other words, Venus' slow rotation gives absolutely no indication whatsoever as to its age. The most likely explanation is probably a massive impact early in the history of the solar system, though nobody knows for sure.
                                            smile[/quote:post_uid0]
Funny, that Earth and Mars should have practically the same period of rotation. Nothing implied, and I appreciate the coincidence...but it still seems pretty weird to me.

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#10 2002-11-29 20:24:05

AltToWar
Member
Registered: 2002-09-28
Posts: 304

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

It's also an interesting coincidence that the moon and the sun have the exact same visable diamater.


If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them. -Henry David Thoreau

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#11 2002-11-30 12:03:49

dicktice
Member
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2002-11-01
Posts: 1,764

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

And...and...Mars's surface is the same as Earth's land mass. Come to think of it, the Moon's gravity is one/half that of Mars--does that mean anything? I wish Earth had mountains that stuck as far out of our atmosphere as Mars mountains do, though, for  acceleration-to-LEO rails to lean on. I can't think of anything about Venus along these lines, except maybe: it sure is nice that Earth didn't turn out to be like that! Funny about mushrooms, by the way, which consume oxygen and produce carbon dioxide--just the reverse of edible green plants: since both are edible doesn't this suggest a self-sustaining symbiotic relationship unnecessary to be attended by oxygen breathing humans? Oh, and isn't it great that all that water-ice that's suppose to be present on Mars is detectable from LMO, and doesn't have to be located by well drilliing! But, isn't it rotten, that Mars is so far away. and that I won't live to see it all happen. And finally--It sure was swell of someone to have thought up The Mars Society for me to take out all my frustration on. Thanks!

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#12 2002-11-30 13:53:13

AltToWar
Member
Registered: 2002-09-28
Posts: 304

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

And...and...Mars's surface is the same as Earth's land mass. Come to think of it, the Moon's gravity is one/half that of Mars--does that mean anything? I wish Earth had mountains that stuck as far out of our atmosphere as Mars mountains do, though, for  acceleration-to-LEO rails to lean on. I can't think of anything about Venus along these lines, except maybe: it sure is nice that Earth didn't turn out to be like that! Funny about mushrooms, by the way, which consume oxygen and produce carbon dioxide--just the reverse of edible green plants: since both are edible doesn't this suggest a self-sustaining symbiotic relationship unnecessary to be attended by oxygen breathing humans? Oh, and isn't it great that all that water-ice that's suppose to be present on Mars is detectable from LMO, and doesn't have to be located by well drilliing! But, isn't it rotten, that Mars is so far away. and that I won't live to see it all happen. And finally--It sure was swell of someone to have thought up The Mars Society for me to take out all my frustration on. Thanks![/quote:post_uid0]
Isn't it an interesting coincidence that you and I both posted on the same topic?


If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them. -Henry David Thoreau

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#13 2002-12-02 11:16:25

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Positives/Negatives as to Mars and Venus - GUTH Venus is positively worth an effort

what is interesting is finding faces in static.

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