Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

Tyr · 2002-09-14 19:32:11

PHOBOS/DEIMOS MINES INC.

Specializing in the sale of rocket propellant to 1) cycling station taxis near Mars 2) ships bound for the Main Belt or Saturn 3) ships bound for Earth 4) landers descending to Mars 5) any ship leaving Mars orbit to anywhere else 6) satellites, orbital tugs, EVA pods working in Mars orbit. We also sell construction materials and gases to SPS and colony builders in Mars orbit. Given the mere 2 kps needed to reach cis-lunar space with our chemically propelled aerobraking freighters that don't violate any laws regulating the aerobraking of nuclear rockets in Earth's upper atmosphere, and the low cost of fuel and LOX from Phobos&Deimos, we have become the biggest exporter of hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen and other elements found on the Mars moonlets and surface of Mars to colonies in HEO, LEO hotels, mines and resorts on Luna. Copper, zinc and other valuable metals mined on Mars are launched inexpensively by mass drivers on the slopes of Pavonis Mons. Our ships haul them to cis-lunar space to fuel industry there. Without Mars, man could not have colonized the Moon and Earth orbital space. Our cutting edge technology made it happen. Now trading on Wall Street at $100 per share. Buy now!!!

Shaun Barrett · 2002-09-15 06:44:01

A great first post, Tyr! Welcome to New Mars!

I really must look into buying some shares in Phobos/Deimos Mines Inc. Maybe if the price eases off a little bit ... !

Phobos · 2002-09-15 17:55:20

Without Mars, man could not have colonized the Moon and Earth orbital space. Our cutting edge technology made it happen.

I think that's the first time I've heard someone claim that the Moon couldn't have been colonized without going to Mars first. Hey man are you taking resumes? Need a hotshot mining engineer to crawl down those caves on Deimos and set off some charges?

Tyr · 2002-09-18 15:03:46

Actually, we could do alot on the Moon and in Earth orbit similar to O'Neill's visions if transportation to LEO came down in price, but eventually the Moon and Earth orbital space will need more CHN and metals like copper if there are ever really going to be L5 space colonies and lunar tourism on a large scale. Most people talk about bringing in materials from NEOs, but I think Mars would be better. Mars has enough water to export some hydrogen. More importantly, launch windows to or from Mars occur every 2.13 years. Some of those NEOs are in such wild orbits that launch windows might be had every 5 to 10 years or worse. On Mars you have an atmosphere to provide protection from radiation, reasonable temps, and easily accessed CHN and some decent gravity to work in. The absence of gravity on an NEO could be more of a hindrance than a help, but who knows? Phobos and Deimos are also excellent resources. If we're lucky they will contain CHN because they seem to be C-type and maybe some other useful elements. If not, then they will still be made of silicates that will serve as an oxygen source. I don't see much use in mining an NEO when I can mine Mars and benefit from the moonlets, sell materials to colonists in Earth-Moon space, make cash and colonize Mars.

"All the universe, or nothing!"

Phobos · 2002-09-18 17:44:50

I don't see much use in mining an NEO when I can mine Mars and benefit from the moonlets, sell materials to colonists in Earth-Moon space, make cash and colonize Mars.

If you have the technology to successfully mine Mars and it's moons you might as well go for the gusto and target NEOs as well. Some of those NEOs after all are very rich in valuable materials and you'd only need the same type of equipment you mine the Martian moons with.

Tyr · 2002-09-19 11:26:56

If you have the technology to successfully mine Mars and it's moons you might as well go for the gusto and target NEOs as well. Some of those NEOs after all are very rich in valuable materials and you'd only need the same type of equipment you mine the Martian moons with.

This is true, however, the companies that do this work will have a limited amount of captial. The question is-Where do we put our money for the best and fastest return?? Have to please the stock holders. Can't be like a dot.com turned dot.gone. I think Demios and Phobos are the place to start. Of course, businesses have to be operating in Earth-Moon space who want our products. It's never been Mars or the Moon with me, but Mars and the Moon and more. After we build up business on the moonlets we can go for an asteroid, probably a stony-iron to get platinum group metals. Once we get our mines on Deimos and Phobos working we can fuel ships and build SPSs in Mars orbit to supply energy to colonists on the surface, and other stuff. Anyhow, that's my reasoning for sinking money into the moonlets first and mining the NEOs later.

Tyr · 2002-10-17 14:44:36

Mars surface area=50million sq. mi. A Bernal Sphere 2 miles wide has an interior surface area of 12.5 sq.mi. It would take 4 million of these space colonies to have as much area as Mars. If we built 10+ decks in the sphere sort of like an onion, maybe we could have 125 sq. mi. We'd still need 400,000 of them. Since it will take 1,000 years at most to completely terraform Mars, we'd have to build 400 Bernal Spheres every year for 1,000 years to rival Mars. I doubt that it would be possible. I'm all in favor of space tourism, energy and manufacturing, resorts on the Moon and orbital hotels, for millions of space tourists every year; but Mars has the most potential to provide a second home for humanity. Mining Deimos and Phobos to build O'Neill cylinders, bernal spheres, toruses etc. may be easier than mining Earth's Moon. We might see the martians build more space cities in orbit and in the asteroid belt than will ever be built by terran civilization.

Phobos · 2002-10-17 17:08:52

Mining Deimos and Phobos to build O'Neill cylinders, bernal spheres, toruses etc. may be easier than mining Earth's Moon. We might see the martians build more space cities in orbit and in the asteroid belt than will ever be built by terran civilization.

If a significantly sized Martian civilization develops I think they'd be far more likely to be spacefarers than people on Earth. Not only does their low gravity make it easier but they'd already be accustomed to living in spacecraft-like environments and there'd be a lot of economic incentives to getting out there in the asteroid belt. Personally I hope it happens. I think such a culture will aid us in our ultimate drive to the stars.

nebob2 · 2002-10-18 00:10:38

I would like to see the return of the old style "charter companies" which exploited so much of the world's resouces in the 16th-19th centuries. Driven by profit, they could efficently utilize resouces in the belt and elsewhere. With no indiginous people to walk on in our system, they could expand rapidly without harm.

Personaly, sign me up for the Jovian Company; hydrogen, helium-3, water, easy access to the belt, and a giant asteroid catcher.

Tom Jolly · 2002-10-18 07:26:41

If there was any water on either of the moonlets, this would be an ideal refueling station for the Mars Bus, running back and forth between the Earth/Mars route. Anybody know if there's supposed to be water on the moons?

RobS · 2002-10-18 10:25:53

The moons are chondrite, which is usually something like 5-10% water by mass (much of which is chemically bound, so heat is needed to drive it off). The ill-fated Phobos 1 spacecraft the Russians launched detected hydrogen ions near Phobos before it failed, suggesting the regolith has bound water in it. You probably need to drill into the moon and heat the "bedrock" directly to extract the water; the regolith itself has been bombarded by micrometeorites and cosmic rays and would be depleted in water.

-- RobS

dicktice · 2002-11-20 19:53:50

The moons are chondrite, which is usually something like 5-10% water by mass (much of which is chemically bound, so heat is needed to drive it off). The ill-fated Phobos 1 spacecraft the Russians launched detected hydrogen ions near Phobos before it failed, suggesting the regolith has bound water in it. You probably need to drill into the moon and heat the "bedrock" directly to extract the water; the regolith itself has been bombarded by micrometeorites and cosmic rays and would be depleted in water.
-- RobS

In studying Robert Richard's hollow asteroid project, it seems to me the size of Phobos satisfies his requirements for such a project. Aside from the spin-up means to obtain the required (0.6 gee?) artificial gravity, and the hollowing out (by means of strategic mining practice, if the internal composition of Phobos can withstand a spin rate of 0.2 rpm or so...I would think it an ideal place for a self supporting population of 50-thousand, say, "buffer" colony for mars. Water seems to be plentiful from accessible cometary asteroids, and the mined material after refining, should be valuable as off-planet electromagnetic rocket reaction mass.

Tyr · 2002-11-25 16:17:25

If the moonlets contain no water, they will still certainly be composed of rock that is about 40% oxygen. Since 8x as much oxygen as H is needed for rockets, the moonlets are still useful. Aluminum can also be burned in rockets.

Tyr · 2002-11-25 16:19:55

If a significantly sized Martian civilization develops I think they'd be far more likely to be spacefarers than people on Earth. Not only does their low gravity make it easier but they'd already be accustomed to living in spacecraft-like environments and there'd be a lot of economic incentives to getting out there in the asteroid belt. Personally I hope it happens. I think such a culture will aid us in our ultimate drive to the stars.

--------------
"To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd." --AAA
[I]You can say that again!!

Tyr · 2003-11-19 18:38:25

And for all the space elevator fans out there, one of the moonlets could serve as ballast. You need a heavy ballast for a workable space elevator. If the moonlets are C-type they might serve as a source of carbon for the cable. Moreover, Mars orbit is not littered with thousands of pieces of space junk that could crash into the elevator.

Bill White · 2003-11-19 20:25:39

If a significantly sized Martian civilization develops I think they'd be far more likely to be spacefarers than people on Earth. Not only does their low gravity make it easier but they'd already be accustomed to living in spacecraft-like environments and there'd be a lot of economic incentives to getting out there in the asteroid belt. Personally I hope it happens. I think such a culture will aid us in our ultimate drive to the stars.
--------------
"To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd." --AAA
You can say that again!

Whoever settles Mars first will have a "head start" on colonizing the entire solar system.

Rxke · 2003-12-07 04:40:50

Tyr, using Phobos or Demios as an anchor for a cable would be overkill... You don't need that much mass to keep it 'up', just send it further outwards when the 'reel' unspools... Another prooblem would be getting them into the right orbit in the first place, these moons are quie big, it'd take a lot of energy to do that, and while the cable might be feasible in another 10-15 years, juggling moonlets to get them used as an anchor, would unneccessary add to its cost.

On the other hand, one of those moons as an anchour would be fantastic, imagine: nowadays mineworkers ride lifts down into the earth to mine for stuff, and 10-15 years later the ride lifts *up* to mine exactly the same stuff, but they get a much better view :laugh:

(ok, lame joke)

No, Deimos/Phobos would be a tremendous asset, all you need is already up there, just jump into a cable cabin with some machinery, and the universe is yours to explore...

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#1 2002-09-14 19:32:11

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#2 2002-09-15 06:44:01

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#3 2002-09-15 17:55:20

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#4 2002-09-18 15:03:46

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#5 2002-09-18 17:44:50

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#6 2002-09-19 11:26:56

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#7 2002-10-17 14:44:36

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#8 2002-10-17 17:08:52

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#9 2002-10-18 00:10:38

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#10 2002-10-18 07:26:41

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#11 2002-10-18 10:25:53

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#12 2002-11-20 19:53:50

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#13 2002-11-25 16:17:25

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#14 2002-11-25 16:19:55

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#15 2003-11-19 18:38:25

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#16 2003-11-19 20:25:39

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

#17 2003-12-07 04:40:50

Re: Mars' moonlets - phobos&deimos

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