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Dayton3

Member

Registered: 2002-06-03

Posts: 137

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

How adaptable are Mars Direct mission concepts for longer range missions?  Such as a manned mission to Jupiter with a landing on Callisto.

Like launching a nuclear powered Earth Return Vehicle to land on Callisto and load up on fuel (hydrogen from the ice probably) for use for the return trip.

I envision a 12 man crew being sent on the 2 year or so journey to Jupiter in a module roughly the size of two of the Skylab stations.

The ERV that goes to Callisto first would actually be only a propulsion stage.  It would link up with the large hab module for the return trip.

Of course, the crew would explore Callisto and use telerobotics and sample returns to explore the other major moons, Jupiters atmosphere, and ring system.

Phobos

Member

Registered: 2002-01-02

Posts: 1,103

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

The main problem would be overcoming the highly lethal radiation belts around Jupiter.  The only way I can see sustaining a manned landing on any of the inner-moons of Jupiter would be to bury your hab module deep beneath the surface of the moon.  And you'd need some special kind of spacesuit that could protect you in that type of extremely dangerous radiation environment also.   It would be an awesome sight though to stand on one of the inner moons and look at Jupiter.  I wonder if you'd be able to see the shadow of the moon on the Jovian cloud tops as its orbits.

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To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

Aside from the radiation problem at Callisto, you've got people cooped up in a high radiation environment for at least two years each way as well.
   Even ignoring the radiation, what about the psychological problems of 4 years-plus in a tin can!
                                     

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

Preston

Banned

Registered: 2002-06-02

Posts: 72

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

Shadows from the moons (especially Io) would definitely be visible; any amateur astronomer could see them from Earth. As for manned landings, you'd have to stay out of the radiation belts as far as near future technology is concerned (which applies to both moons and an orbital path that takes you into dangerous areas).

If I remember right, Zubrin says in The Case for Mars that (at a distance roughly between Earth and Mars) that the cosmic radiation is about equal to the solar radiation dose. Is that right?

Dayton3

Member

Registered: 2002-06-03

Posts: 137

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

Callisto orbits OUTSIDE of Jupiters radiation belts.   Radiation on Callisto is minimal (something like 1/100th of a REM per day).

Why do you think I suggested Callisto for a base for telerobotic exploration in the first place?

Ganemede isn't too bad at around 8 REMs a day.  But probably not the place you would hang around for weeks at a time.

I could be wrong with these figures,  it might be REMS per hour of exposure.  But even then, Callisto doesn't get enough to make a difference.

Next question.

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

Sorry about Callisto's radiation environment. I know Europa is a no-go area and, when Phobos seemed so certain that Callisto was also dangerous, I didn't bother to check.
   It doesn't matter much, though. You still haven't addressed the problems of radiation exposure in transit and the psychological difficulties of confinement for 4-plus years.
   It's a big enough worry with the 6 month trip to Mars ... and that's with the prospect of a very Earth-like planet to look forward to, with hills and  old river valleys and the occasional cloud in the occasionally-blue sky!
   I think we'll have to leave manned trips to the gas giants until Ron Koczor at NASA gives the Podkletnov Gravity Drive a man-rating!! Might be quite soon now!
                                     

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

Aetius

Member

From: New England USA

Registered: 2002-01-20

Posts: 173

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

That would indeed be sweet. Imagine if that device COULD be incorporated into a spacecraft. I'd love to own a cargo ship capable of hauling 100,000 tons to Mars regularly...and get paid quite nicely for its use!

Phobos

Member

Registered: 2002-01-02

Posts: 1,103

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

That would indeed be sweet. Imagine if that device COULD be incorporated into a spacecraft. I'd love to own a cargo ship capable of hauling 100,000 tons to Mars regularly...and get paid quite nicely for its use!

If a miracle technology like this could actually be made to work in such a big way, then we could practically go to Mars tomorrow!  Screw NASA, we'll just build the ships ourselves!

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To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

Canth

Member

Registered: 2002-04-21

Posts: 126

Re: Mars Direct Usable For Longer Range Exploration - Mars Direct and Manned Jupiter Expeditio

No kidding, we can go settle mars while nasa figures out how to get us to alpha centauri.