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There are probably thousands of unemployed if not bored to tears
Russian space scientist, engineers and the like out there. Shouldn't we be inviting them to contribute to some of our forums?
Are there any Mars society chapters in Russia or the former Soviet union?
As a former submariner I can tell you that they had some pretty innovative science and engineering going on in Russia and I can't recall having seen any posts from anyone in that part of the world
Whats up with that?
Charlie
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*Hi. I'm not aware of a Russian chapter of the Mars Society. It'd be great to have some Russian scientists and etc. here; but I wouldn't know how to go about contacting them.
We've previously had an active member of this message board who hails from Russia (currently resides elsewhere). Perhaps he still visits intermittently and can chime in.
--Cindy
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)
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Yes, it's weird why noone from Russia is posting here. Maybe it has to do with internal regulations for keeping their "secrets", which has some tradition in this field. But then I've seen them talking about some details of their engines at a European convention. Most of them probably have other concerns regarding the still not quite good condition of their economy.
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Yes, it's weird why noone from Russia is posting here. Maybe it has to do with internal regulations for keeping their "secrets", which has some tradition in this field.
Or perhaps it has to do with the fact that the average Russian internet user is still using a Commodore 64 knockoff to type telnet addresses.
The solution could be to open a NewMars branch site in all-text format.
"We go big, or we don't go." - GCNRevenger
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My impression is that Apple Macintoshes are the computers of choice in Europe east of the former Iron Curtain. Also, where do you think the majority of computer viruses, worms, etc. are coming from? No, the dirth of Mars Direct applicants from over there must be unawareness. I wish I knew how to get through to them, because they are very spacetravel driven.
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I think it's important that people be aware...of other cultures, and space ideas.
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Yes, it's weird why noone from Russia is posting here. Maybe it has to do with internal regulations for keeping their "secrets", which has some tradition in this field.
Or perhaps it has to do with the fact that the average Russian internet user is still using a Commodore 64 knockoff to type telnet addresses.
The solution could be to open a NewMars branch site in all-text format.
Have you actually been to Russia? I thought so. It's not has poor has people would have you believe.
I think it would be great to have russians. They think differently from americans. It would be great if we could merge that two styles into getting good ideas.
"...all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by."
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Kliper and the Euros will keep Russia busy for awhile. Energiya has new leadership. Neither Semyonov or Kotev are there anymore.
The R-7 pad in Kourou is a bit behind schedule, however.
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U.S., Russian cultures clash in orbit
Moscow sends up batteries that NASA feared were a risk
Tuesday, November 11, 2003 Posted: 10:08 AM EST (1508 GMT)
CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- It was just four high-energy batteries, the kind that are found in a lot of military equipment such as walkie-talkie sets and night vision equipment. Similar batteries already were being used on the international space station.
But when NASA officials discovered last year that Russian space officials were allowing the four batteries on-board the space station without the proper testing, they objected strenuously. The batteries could be toxic and had a small potential to explode. The Russians went ahead anyway.
Nothing ever happened. But the friction caused by the batteries underscores the divide between the now hyper-safety-conscious Americans and what the Russians describe as their "more flexible" approach.
It's a different philosophy, explains Shirley McCarty, former head of NASA's safety advisory board: In the U.S. program you must prove it is safe. The Russian approach is "prove it's not safe."
After the Columbia space shuttle disaster, safety is getting even more attention by the U.S. space program.
Tensions over the two countries' approaches are being played out in Houston and Moscow as both programs debate whether to allow a spacewalk by the current space station crew of just two men -- astronaut Michael Foale and cosmonaut Alexander Kaleri. A spacewalk would leave the space station temporarily empty. Previous spacewalks at the international space station have depended on a third crew member inside.
Russians comfortable with risk
The Russians, however, are comfortable with the risk and carried out spacewalks on their Mir space station with just a two-man crew. They are pushing for a spacewalk in late February to do minor work involving payloads and preparatory work for a new type of cargo ship.
The Russians consider themselves less rigid and more inventive than the Americans, who tend to follow every letter in the technical manuals, said Sergei Gorbunov, a spokesman for the Russian Space Agency.
"Here in Russia, we are more flexible in our approach to technical problems," Gorbunov said. "The Americans are more conservative in dealing with technical problems, but this isn't a fault."
It may not be a fault, but the different approaches contribute to communications problems that could lead to dangerous situations, NASA's safety advisory board warned in a report last year.
"They share safety concerns," Michael Suffredini, the station's operations and integration manager for NASA, said last week of the Russians. "Sometimes we have a different view."
Jerry Linenger, a former astronaut who lived aboard Russia's Mir in 1997, said there has to be a "happy medium" between the two approaches.
"The Russians are probably on one side of the balance, and the Americans are probably too much on the other side," Linenger said.
During Linenger's stay on Mir, the Russian space station suffered the most severe fire ever aboard an orbiting spacecraft, a near collision with a cargo ship, failures of onboard systems including an oxygen generator, loss of electrical power and an uncontrolled tumble through space.
The current space station crew also is experienced with close calls. Foale was on Mir when it collided with a cargo ship. Kaleri was on Mir along with Linenger when the fire broke out.
Cultural and economic differences
The differences between the Russian and U.S. approaches to safety are as much from cultural as economic factors, said Linenger.
Russian industry, for instance, doesn't have the commitment to worker safety that the United States has adopted in recent decades through agencies such as the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. In addition, workers in the Russian space program haven't shaken off the Soviet-era habit of following orders without question, Linenger said.
"The Russians don't want to lose a cosmonaut any more than we want to lose an astronaut," he said, but suggested that perhaps they were "less used to protecting the worker ... They're probably more willing to overlook a lot of things that we're not."
The limited budget of the Russian space program also contributes to how it approaches safety, Linenger said. The cash-strapped space agency, after all, has allowed U.S. millionaire Dennis Tito and South African Mark Shuttleworth to pay for the privilege of being space tourists on the station despite the initial objections of NASA officials.
Most recently, the Russian space program disclosed that government funds allocated for building crew capsules and supply ships for the space station are only about half of what's needed.
"When you have a limited budget like they did when I was there, you can't afford to go to option B," Linenger said. "Maybe we misinterpret that they're cavalier about things when they have no options."
Linenger noted that NASA recently decided to send the current crew to the space station despite concerns from a NASA physician and scientist that exercise equipment and some water and air monitoring devices weren't working properly.
"When you're between a rock and a hard place, I'm not sure we would act any differently," he said.
Ed Lu, who returned from the space station last month after a six-month stay, said any differences in approaches to safety aren't noticeable.
"It's really one big program right now," he said during an interview from space before his return. "You can't really separate the organizations too much anymore."
But members of NASA's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel felt otherwise. They resigned en masse in September after being described as ineffective in a report by the Columbia Accident Investigation Board. Before resigning, members cited two other recent incidents in which miscommunication between the Russians and Americans on the ground had caused problems with how the space station was positioned.
"It just seems all the required operating procedures, the ground rules aboard the station, really hadn't been completely planned out between the various international partners," said Robert Schaufele, a former member of the safety panel and a professor of aircraft design at California State University.
But the two programs have learned from past problems, and new procedures have been put in place, said Bill Gerstenmaier, the space station's program manager for NASA.
Since the batteries incident, complaints or concerns can be taken up the command chain more quickly, said Arthur Zygielbaum, a former safety advisory board member.
And in recent years, eight NASA specialists have worked in Russia while 10 Russian specialists have worked with NASA in Houston to smooth out potential communication issues, said Joel Montalbano, lead flight director for the current space station mission.
With this communications foundation, Montalbano said, "we can work better and stronger."
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This reminds me of a trip I took to the Baikunor Comsodrome in 2002. I was there to launch a commercial geosynchronous telecommunications satellite. I was in charge of lifting the satellite onto the upper stage called the Block DM. Actually, my job was to lower the satellite so that it was about six inches above the upper stage. Then, officially the Russians would take over. Well, I lowered the satellite and the Russians took over. They were just sitting on tht inside of the Block DM about 80 above the floor without any safety harnesses or anything. I was totally amazed. They didn't seem to have a quality engineer check their work or anything. I ask our QE what's up with that. He had been to Baikonur many times before and he looked at me and said. "This is the Russian quality control, (in a heavy Russian accent) 'In Russia, if technician make mistake, he will be...SHOT!'" That was very funny... :mrgreen:
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