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#1 2004-04-02 21:08:33

ERRORIST
Member
From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Some of the volcanos on Mars are geysers!!! Yes????[/color:post_uid0]

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#2 2004-04-02 21:49:35

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Ummmm no. Nothing that big could be formed by little amounts of water. Volcanic liquid rock activity would be required.[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#3 2004-04-02 22:00:02

ERRORIST
Member
From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]The scientists now say Mars was drenched in water. So yes Geysers galore were possible.[/color:post_uid0]

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#4 2004-04-02 22:55:46

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]But you still need lots and lots of flowing lava coming from the center of the volcano in order to make them that big[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#5 2004-04-02 23:49:30

Rxke
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2003-11-03
Posts: 3,658

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]How many geysers on Earth do you know that look very similar to shield vulcanoes?

Thought so. Case closed.[/color:post_uid0]


ExoMars' launcher's 2nd stage is probably en route to Mars. Unsterilised... yikes

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#6 2004-04-03 17:48:10

ERRORIST
Member
From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]The opposite is true how many volcanos look like geysers on Earth. Many of them look like volcanos.[/color:post_uid0]

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#7 2004-04-03 18:23:32

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Um, dude, time for a little geology...

The big volcanoes on Mars are what are called Shield Volcanoes. These are created by the pressure and building up of [i:post_uid0]liquid rock[/i:post_uid0], not water, slowly over a very large area. Liquid water cannot produce this effect, since it cannot carry signifigant amounts of soil and deposit it over a small area so flat and evenly. We would see gullies and valleys extending from the center, which there are none.

Volcanoes on Earth do not look like geysers either. They are formed by water being trapped in rock near a thin or weak spot in the Earth's crust, and so it is more likly you will find these at the bottom of a depression than the top of a volcano.[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#8 2004-04-03 20:41:27

ERRORIST
Member
From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]From space they do? Also, I can show you a volcano on Mars that looks like a huge mud flow slid down the side from the caldera all the way into a crater.It looks like an alluvial deposit to me inside the crater.I bet that impact at the base caused the geyser to erupt.Looks like bubbling mud pits in the center like the ones out west.

http://www.etsimo.uniovi.es/solar/r/mars/ceraun.gif[/color:post_uid0]

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#9 2004-04-04 08:43:59

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Ummmmm nooo, not seeing anything that would indicate it was FORMED by water. It may have held water [i:post_uid0]after[/i:post_uid0] it was formed, but how uniform and even it is over its surface proves that water had nothing to do with it. Look up a geology site about shield volcanoes before considering another post... you aren't exactly a planetary scientist.[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#10 2004-04-04 08:56:51

GCNRevenger
Member
From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Let me make another point... how many geysers on Earth make their own shield volcanoes surrounding them? None!

If water carried up minerals from underground to form the moutains as you claim, then the same water would carry them away before they could be so evenly deposited!

Liquid ROCK on the other hand will rise through the penitration in the crust, and harden as it cools around the vent, thus building up the volcanoe evenly over a small area.[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#11 2004-04-04 15:06:54

rgcarnes
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From: In the country near Rolla Miss
Registered: 2002-02-04
Posts: 111

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]This just for fun.  I hope it doesn't detract too much.

In the right temperature regime, water is rock.[/color:post_uid0]


Rex G. Carnes

If the Meek Inherit the Earth, Where Do All the Bold Go?

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#12 2004-04-04 18:24:37

ERRORIST
Member
From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Since gravity is less on Mars then the geysers can become very high.[/color:post_uid0]

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#13 2004-04-04 21:12:07

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]No Errorist, the gravities of Earth and Mars are similar enough so that there are no unusual geologic mechanisms on Mars like this. If these were geysers, [i:post_uid0]then there would be no moutain[/i:post_uid0].

Water will stay a molecule reguardless of temperature, so no, water is never rock.[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#14 2004-04-05 04:00:51

ERRORIST
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From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]GCNRevenger!!!! It is not close at all.

rgcarnes, Is right.
"In the right temperature regime, water is rock."

http://www.arcadiastreet.com/cgvistas/mars_002.htm[/color:post_uid0]

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#15 2004-04-05 05:38:31

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Yeees it is, its close enough. The only difference is the scale of things, and barring atmospheric affects, all the major structures on Mars are formed by similar processes on Earth too.

And NO, water is never, ever rock. At no temperature nor pressure does water act like rock, it is a solid at low temperatures, but it still doesn't behave the same way. Even in the liquid from, it doesn't behave like lava either, with its different physical properties.

Prove that I am wrong, or don't come back.[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#16 2004-04-05 05:48:14

ERRORIST
Member
From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Prove to me I am wrong![/color:post_uid0]

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#17 2004-04-05 05:59:26

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I have done so, using a well reasoned explanation that water will carry rock differently and not form moutains unlike how lava can, which is evidenced by your own picture that you provided, and that the geologic heritige of Mars is not entirely dissimilar from our own with our planets' similar origins and physical size.

The burden now lies on you, show how this is not true through reason or evidence, or don't come back.[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#18 2004-04-05 06:00:54

Julius Caeser
Member
From: Malta
Registered: 2004-03-25
Posts: 105

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I am no geologist or planetary scientist but i'm still not convinced that Meridiani   held a salty lake or sea...i liken it more to an area where geysers flourished...any thoughts about this?[/color:post_uid0]

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#19 2004-04-05 06:03:32

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]It very well may have... [i:post_uid0]but where did the moutain come from[/i:post_uid0]. I am concerned with the origin of the moutain, and not the fact that it held water at one time following its creation.[/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#20 2004-04-05 06:08:20

Julius Caeser
Member
From: Malta
Registered: 2004-03-25
Posts: 105

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Mountains on Mars..i agree they are shield volcanoes....what about the mountain chain south of Mariner valley..are these due to past tectonic activity on Mars???Magnetic maps seem to show the presence of a spreading centre very much like a mid oceanic ridge on Earth in very early Mars history before magnetic field died out....[/color:post_uid0]

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#21 2004-04-05 06:12:48

ERRORIST
Member
From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Geysers galore I agree!!!!![/color:post_uid0]

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#22 2004-04-05 07:01:44

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Magnetic maps? Thats it? Come now... [i:post_uid0]how[/i:post_uid0] can [u:post_uid0]any[/u:post_uid0] geyser make a moutain? How? If anything, it would make a [b:post_uid0]depression[/b:post_uid0]...

That is a rhetorical question by the way, the answer is, [i:post_uid0]they don't.[/i:post_uid0][/color:post_uid0]


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#23 2004-04-05 14:17:09

atomoid
Member
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered: 2004-02-13
Posts: 252

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]There were mosat likely some geysers like in any place with heat, water and faults, but i doubt they lasted very long. Unfortuantely there is no volcanism being recreated although there might be a little residual escaping with moisture even to this day, like the Hellas Basin IR anomalies found by Oddyssey.

Does anyone know why Mars lost its magnetic field, it was certainly around long enogh to form the mangetica nomalies (as Mr. Caesar pointed out) when there was still some plate tectonics going on, but neither apparently lasted long enough to completely resurface the planet with mangetic features, they are confined to a few small areas. Is it true only Earth and the big gas planets have appreciable magnetic fields (i forget)? Maybe for a small planets like Mars or the Earth you need to keep a big moon circling around to continually keep stirring up the core to get the right kind of circulation going.

needless to say a geyser cant really make a mountain, even if the water were highly mineralized and it precipitated at a very high rate to build huge masses of travertine, the height of the geyser would diminish the amount of water coming out before it got too high. Although on Mars i could see it getting higher than the earth, but on earth we only have travertine *hills*[/color:post_uid0]


"I think it would be a good idea". - Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

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#24 2004-04-08 15:02:47

ERRORIST
Member
From: OXFORD ALABAMA
Registered: 2004-01-28
Posts: 1,182

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Neat looking mountain formed by a geyser!!!!
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-00zb.html[/color:post_uid0]

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#25 2004-04-08 16:37:59

SBird
Member
Registered: 2004-03-10
Posts: 490

Re: Geysers not volcanos

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Um ERRORIST, you did read the article, correct?  The Mammoth hot springs are one of the largest geyser-deposited mineral formations on Earth and it's about 1.5 x 1.5 miles wide and 140 feet tall.  That's hardly a mountain.  I've seen garbage dumps with bigger hills than that.  Although it's impossible to say whether or not geyers ever did operate on MArs, it's pretty clear that the huge mountains seen on Mars were not generated by geyers.  Plus, if any Mars mountains had been generated by geyers, the rock in them would have been very highly distinctive and orbital spectroscopy would have noticed it by now.[/color:post_uid0]

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