New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: We've recently made changes to our user database and have removed inactive and spam users. If you can not login, please re-register.

#1 2002-10-22 15:18:46

Scott G. Beach
Member
Registered: 2002-07-08
Posts: 288

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

A corporation named "Mars Society, Inc." was organized under Colorado law on September 11, 1997 by Declan J. O'Donnell.  That corporation was dissolved on March 1, 2002 by the Colorado Secretary of State and then reinstated on August 23, 2002. 

The Articles of Incorporation of Mars Society, Inc. provide that Robert Zubrin, Margaret Zubrin, and Declan J. O'Donnell will be the original members of the Society's Board of Directors. The Articles of Incorporation were amended on April 20, 1998 to provide that Richard Wagner is also an original member of the Society's Board of Directors.  That amendment was filed with the Colorado Secretary of State on May 27, 1998.  That amendment also [i:post_uid4]eliminated[/i:post_uid4] the sentence, "The specific purpose and objective of the Corporation shall be to further the exploration and settlement of Mars." 

On December 11, 1999, the Board of Directors of Mars Society, Inc. adopted bylaws which provide that, "The purpose of the Mars Society is to further the exploration and settlement of the planet Mars through; 1. Broad public outreach to instill the vision of pioneering the Red Planet, 2. Mobilizing support for ever more aggressive government funded Mars exploration programs around the world, and 3. Conducting Mars exploration on a private basis."

In accordance with this purpose statement, Mars Society, Inc. can mobilize support for and conduct Mars exploration activities.  And it can build prototype Martian stations in order to conduct simulated Mars exploration activities.  And it can instill the vision of settlers pioneering Mars.  But Mars Society, Inc. cannot build a prototype Martian settlement.  The Articles of Incorporation and bylaws were cleverly amended in order to exclude this activity.  That is why, when Steering Committee member Bruce Mackenzie "presented a new project idea: The Analog Settlement to publicly demonstrate the feasibility of living beyond the Earth and its advantages to everyone," Mr. Mackenzie's project idea was simply ignored.  He had unwittingly proposed an activity that is beyond the scope of the Society's cunningly amended purpose.

Sorry Bruce; you have been preempted.   wink


"Analysis, whether economic or other, never yields more that a statement about the tendencies present in an observable pattern."  Joseph A. Schumpeter; Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, 1942

Offline

#2 2002-10-22 15:34:13

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Perhaps they realize that building and demonstrating a proto-type of a Martian settlement on Earth is the quickest way to demonstrate the disadvantages to living off planet.

Reporter: So what do you do all day?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Er, um, I sit inside, under the flickering lights, driving this little rover around in vacum.
Reporter: What do you do for fun?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Well, most of the time we have to do saftey drills,  do diagnostic sweeps, calibrate sensors, and triple check the machinery we pretend to depend on for life.
Reporter: So what are the advantages of pretending to live on Mars?
Proto-Mars Colonist: That's what we are trying to figure out, so far we have "science".
Reporter: What is the food like?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Rich and varied, all nutrious- of course by Earthly standards, it is sparse and tasteless. We have very little room for luxaries, as the cost is too great. Most of our food is soy based. Most of us would kill for ice cream, we feel for our Antartic cousins.
Reporter: Speaking of killing, is there crime in your community?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Nah, not really- what with all the cameras and other base sensors that monitor the status of the habitat 24/7, and the fact that we live in an enclosed and regulated environment, there is little opportunity for crime. Of course, it would be nice to have cloudy and cold days now and then, but the temp regs require 72 degrees, all the time- and due to the need for constant work throughout the day for maintainence, the lights are always the same in the general area.
Reporter: Why do you think people would want to go to mars?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Why? For the adventure of course, dosen't my life sound like an adventure? Well, dosen't it?

You tell me.

Offline

#3 2002-10-22 20:26:17

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Perhaps they realize that building and demonstrating a proto-type of a Martian settlement on Earth is the quickest way to demonstrate the disadvantages to living off planet.

LOL!  Leave it up to Clark to make such interpretations.  He could very well be right though.  Who knows what was going through minds of those penning the bylaws. smile


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

Offline

#4 2002-10-23 00:28:26

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Building a base that could sustain itself on Mars, would be the same as building a city that can sustain itself on Earth! The whole concept of Mars Direct, in my opinion, is a sort of Westerner Journey, and it doesn't like the idea of highly technological self sustaining systems. It wants to ‘just get there.’

But... I don't see why “Conducting Mars exploration on a private basis” precludes creating a prototype settlement capable of sustaining itself.

Reporter: So what do you do all day?
Proto-Mars colonist: Well, in the morning, I make sure all the equipment is functioning, although that task is relatively simple, since the monitor over there lists all the devices which aren't functioning nominally. Of course, once a Martian month (yeah, we're living on Martian time, that's what those red floodlights are out there for- too bad we don't have M gravity), anyway, once a Martian month, we do full sensor checks, but they're simple to do, and I personally think they're unnecessary due to the robust design of the systems. They're completely decentralized, and have more redundancy than you really need. I could probably leave them alone for ten years before anything started failing.

But other than that two second glancing at the monitors, I do all sorts of things. I'm the main ecologist, and I make sure the hydroponic garden is optimal, of course, that job is too easily facilitated by these sensors over here.

Reporter: What do you do for fun?
Proto-Mars colonist: I mainly just like relaxing there in the middle of the greenhouse on that chair I made of Martian aluminum, it reminds me of home. Add a little Rachmaninoff and a glass of sweet Martian rum, and things get even nicer!

But to be honest, there really isn't a lot we can do, we're not pretending to be on Earth here, you have to accept that you can't do a lot of things. We're simulating an environment inside a vaccume; traveling about proves difficult, due to the semi-complex, somewhat time consuming nature of suiting up (although we think we've made it as easy as possible). We're literally living in a really advanced apartment in the middle of space, well... Arizona, but you can't have everything!

We download videogames, news reports, and so on from our data connections. Plus, each of us were allowed to bring our own special items, like insturments, yoyos, and so on.

Reporter: So what are the advantages of pretending to live on Mars?
Proto-Mars colonist: The food! Actually, it's hard to say. We're living in practically the state of the art, here. Everything we have is designed with new technology in mind. We're designing everything to be buildable from simple components, so that we could deploy, say, a totally functional, pressurized greenhouse with ease. Of course, the advantages to actually living on Mars would be much greater, since we'd have a lot more hands on experience. If anything, these studies are better off showing how current cities on Earth can function with the resources they have locally. It wouldn't surprise me if neighborhoods around the country started adapting the technology themselves. I think the real advantage, is... well... progress. I know that you're probably laughing at me right now, but I fully expect my grandchildren to be living in settlements much like the one we have here.

Reporter: What is the food like?
Proto-Mars colonist: I actually pride myself on the, well, variety of food I grow in the hydroponic garden. We always have a surplus of seeds, because the plants we grow create them. And it's not unusual for the plants to actually have multiple harvests throughout their lifetime. At the momment we're growing potatoes, rice, tomatoes, some grains (I've created a great bread recipe if you're interested- I hope it works in M gravity), the list goes on, because we have many different kinds of seeds, the only question is how many hydroponic greenhouses we can build! Our diet does consist mainly of soy, and we're working on synthesizing things every day. In fact, we're selling a cook-book with our favorites, including strawberry soy-based ice cream! Fortunately Mars is very cool, so we literally pipe out midel  (a mostly inert chemical liquid that can survive extreme temperatures) as a refrigerant, for the whole hab (it's pretty hot here in Arizona, you know- so the midel is almost necessary, but I'm sure it would be a great commodity on Mars).

And interestingly, our biochemist guy, is working on creating simple polyethylene from carbon and hydrogen, so that we can build more hydroponic greenhouses. We use soy to derive the comlpex molecules so that this process is a lot easier, though it would prove interesting to invent a process which doesn't use organics at all. Maybe in the future we will. We'll certainly be looking in to it.

Reporter: Speaking of killing, is there crime in your community?
Proto-Mars colonist: What kind of silly question is that? This is hardly a real society, I mean, we are, after all, contracted out by the Mars Society, with actually no pay (personally, I think the whole experience with a self sufficient settlement is overwhelming, and totally worth every single minute I've invested).

Ask that question 50 years from now when people are using our settlement designs and ideas to live on Mars, and Luna, and in space in general.

Reporter: Why do you think people would want to go to Mars?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Why? For the adventure of course, dosen't my life sound like an adventure? Well, dosen't it?

You tell me.

Okay, all that said... if civilians were to design a settlement on Mars, I am fully confident such a settlement would not be this wretched NASA-esque environment where all sorts of 40 year old technology is used.


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Offline

#5 2002-10-23 07:58:31

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Well done Josh. smile

My words from a mars enthusiast point of view.

We download videogames, news reports, and so on from our data connections.

Of course I might have added:

"We download data after several redundant and neccessary virus checks, which tends to make downloading a bit tedious and and drawn out- yeah, the procedure was instutited after that unfortunate event on Luna when the base power systems failed due to a downloaded virus..."

Offline

#6 2002-10-24 10:33:03

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

We used an operating system that wasn't susceptible to viruses, on which, if anything ‘harmful’ was executed, a persistant store of data would be loaded. This operating system wouldn't have memory addresses, since it's a single address space operating system and all code is executed by a trusted compiler. Sometimes it's slow when we do a lot of stupid things at once, because we don't have a hardware based garbage collector, but overall it's the fastest possible operating system, due to the lack of time consuming task switching. We downloaded the data using a UDP-esque protocol, but with much larger error correction sieves, so although the data is slightly redundant, and you could send four times as much if you had no latency or need for error correction, it gets here without problems.

wink

::creating the operating system he just outlined in his spare time::


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Offline

#7 2002-10-24 12:13:26

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

We used an operating system that wasn't susceptible to viruses,

Now, now, you are effectively saying "virus impossible". But you do get points for creativity.

How about:

Reporter: So what's the biggest problem here?
Proto-Mars Colonist: I would have to say that close quarters have really lead to some profound psychological disturbances. We didn't realize how carefully we would have to screen potential canadites. It was pretty gruesome to see some of the vouleenters gouge out their eyes with their thumbs becuase they couldn't take the artifical light and constant hum of machinery. We're also reconsidering the extra doses of radiation we undergo to simulate life on Mars- were running about a 30% cancer rate in the base population so far. I go for dialysis in a couple hours- that takes upa bit of my free time, which i try to use working on our operating system that is impervious to all forms of computer viri. tongue

A simple: we keep all mission critical computers seperated from the regular systems- they also use a different coding language just in case someone trys to physically add a file- non-system interoperability keeps us pretty secure.

But I will bow to your obvious depth of knowledge in these areas Josh.

Offline

#8 2002-10-25 09:48:27

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Bleh, you know that populations will be inhabiting the mini-magnetospheric regions initally (or at least, they would if they had any sanity about them). So cancer from radiation poisoning is non-factor, since there would be no rational reason to simulate it. tongue

Isolating specific components is a good solution, so long as they're actually isolated physically, and not with some software firewall. Otherwise we'd just be practicing security through obscurity, and it would eventually be circumvented. The real solution is, as I said, an OS with a trusted compiler. Such a system would allow you to travel backwards in time, essentially, giving you the ablity to reverse any problems that could have been caused by a virus (or any other malicious things). And even then, such a virus would have to be executed by a person, by hand, so you're not going to have viruses uploading themselves and exploiting the OS like we do with current OS's.

Eric Fromm says, in To Have or To Be, “[...] those who have not given up hope [with regards to a more utopian future] can succeed only if they are hardheaded realists, shed all illusions, and fully appreciate the difficulties.”

I try very hard to be a realist here. smile


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Offline

#9 2002-10-25 10:05:45

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

And you succeed in my opinion. smile

I have a rather bleak view of what life would be like on mars for a large population, and I still find it diffucult to find a realistic vision that disproves some of the concerns I have raised.

However, I will conceed that going to Mars will be an adventure- working on mars will be an adventure. Living on mars though? Well, that ay be a bit more mundane.

Try living a week in the confines of your home, with all the windows shuttered- just artificial light. For your vistas, get a picture of flat desert- that's what you get to look out on every day in your house.

But you win. Good job.   big_smile

Offline

#10 2002-10-25 11:13:05

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Try living a week in the confines of your home, with all the windows shuttered- just artificial light. For your vistas, get a picture of flat desert- that's what you get to look out on every day in your house.

*Yeah.  What would drive me nuts on Mars is the absence of weather.  No billowing storm clouds, no thunder, no rain, no rainbows, etc.  I'm a weather person.  Moving from the Midwest [lots of weather changes] to the desert southwest was, weather-wise, a lot harder to get used to than I'd anticipated, and I moved here young; there's little weather here, by comparison to Iowa and Nebraska. 

I can't imagine being in a place where the only weather is wind, blowing dust and sand.  sad

Just out of curiosity, how windy is it on Mars, on average?  Does anyone know?  I'm particularly curious as to average wind speeds, etc., in the zones where a human landing is planned to occur.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Offline

#11 2002-10-25 11:27:23

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Dosen't matter. All experience with weather on mars will be through metal and glass- no human will ever feel the wind on their skin on mars, unless terraforming occurs.

As for wind pressure- there is hardly any due to the lack of atmospheric pressure. There are wind speeds in the hundreds of miles per hour, yet it would barely move us as it has no pressure to work with.

Offline

#12 2002-10-25 12:20:56

turbo
Member
From: Jacksonville, Florida
Registered: 2002-08-01
Posts: 76

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

So for starters the first colonists will have to be experienced submarine crews?  Some of those guys live in a world without windows for months at a time.  Send along a sunlamp and the glass and steel world won't bother them.

I keep seeing the first decades as a mixture of "Outland", the foundry of "Alien 3", and the shipping area of "Fortress II".  I admit I'm still very partial to the roofed-over trenches as basically a squared Moon Base Alpha of "Space 1999" fame. 

Hmmm, moonbases, landers, and starships.  How about we split NASA's budget between the Russians and the Brits?  The Brits design it and the Russians get it there.  Anybody know if ESA has openings?

turbo, who is tired of LEO

Offline

#13 2002-10-25 12:32:11

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

So for starters the first colonists will have to be experienced submarine crews?  Some of those guys live in a world without windows for months at a time.

I agree, but not everyone has the psychological where-withal to thrive in these kinds of environments. And there really isn't much of an option to return either- this isn't a few months, this is for the rest of your life.

Offline

#14 2002-10-25 12:38:36

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

So for starters the first colonists will have to be experienced submarine crews?  Some of those guys live in a world without windows for months at a time.

I agree, but not everyone has the psychological where-withal to thrive in these kinds of environments. And there really isn't much of an option to return either- this isn't a few months, this is for the rest of your life.

*Yes.  And will eventually involve children.  ???

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Offline

#15 2002-10-25 20:14:54

turbo
Member
From: Jacksonville, Florida
Registered: 2002-08-01
Posts: 76

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Having no desire to board a vessel designed to sink ( as in submarine), my 8+ Navy years were spent mostly on surface ships.  On my first ship I made an appointment with myself to go see the Sun after two straight weeks after two straight weeks at sea.  Duh, good reason to use the 24-hour clock as I walked into the Hanger Bay to find the pitch black night of the Med outside.

I have to believe that as the routine sets in of putting on suit and checking systems (and the myriad other things that will need to be done on Mars) that the excitement of being one of the first will rapidly fade and like a deployed ship, the messages from "home" will be the most anticipated.  I can fully understand why a "media wall" is a part of the analog habs now. 

As far as the children, I tend to agree with the environment as influence psychologists that the first generations will grow up in the steel/aluminum with glass windows world of airlocks and leak alarms and whatever else and find Earth a strange and hostile environment.  Human actions aside (i.e crime), tell a Colonial child about hurricanes/cyclones and they may ask why anyone would want to live on such a horrible planet with its terrible weather, dangerous life (find one rattlesnake on Mars, I dare you) and disease-causing intense solar radiation and crushing gravity.  Those kids will probably ask why it took so long to get off the Earth once the technology was ready.

turbo

Offline

#16 2002-10-25 21:01:17

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Hehehe, you guys make it seem harsh. smile

I guess I'm biased about living indoors. wink

I mean, I spend a good 20 hours a day indoors.  I know it's somewhat pathetic, but my line of work doesn't put me outdoors, and when I'm off work, I just don't go out often. On the weekends, I may go to the park, perhaps, but being outdoors really isn't something I indulge in.

I think people are way more capable than we're suggesting here. People aren't exactly weakminded, and they tend to adapt to enviroments fairly well. The only exception would be, say, the mentally ill, but even they spend a lot of time indoors! wink

Hey, people will probably be saying here, that they wouldn't want to go to Mars if they couldn't go outside. I don't think you'd always be confined to your habitat. You could go out daily, if you wanted. Whether or not it's safe, I dunno. You know, I can see people rock climbing in suits specially designed for such a thing; even hiking. The point is, that ‘getting out’ of the hab, would be risky. You could probably do it, you just probably wouldn't often due to the risk factor (and comparatively extraneous steps to nullify those risks).


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Offline

#17 2002-10-26 00:12:35

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Astronauts have a cool demeanor and good people-skills, but six months in a tiny spaceship with the same crewmates can drive anyone to distraction.

Source: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002 … list843206


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Offline

#18 2002-10-26 07:13:47

Byron
Member
From: Florida, USA
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 844

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

I don't think living on Mars will be as bleak as clark and others suggest...sure you'd have to be 'inside' all the time, but it wouldn't be like living in a sub in which you never see the sun or sky for months and months at a time.  Since energy will likely be at a premium (especially so in the early days,) natural sunlight will have to be utitlized to the greatest extent possible, which means having glassed-over habs, sizable windows and the like to provide daytime illumination, and even in places where people live and work deep under the regolith, there would be 'solar tubes' that would collect sunlight from above (with parabolic mirrors) and shine it down to the lower, underground floors. (This technique has been ulitlized for modern-day skyscrapers to save on energy costs of artificial lighting.)

Also, a great deal of research and exploration would be carried out outdoors in rovers and spacesuits, and many people will essentially spend their entire workdays out under the Martian sun, despite the risk of increased radiation.  And the vistas from the habs wouldn't neccessarily be of a montonous, flat dun-colored desert, unless the base was unfortunately situated out on the vast reaches of the northern plains...most likely, people would live in places of geological interest, such as the floor of Marineris or in the Kasei Valley or in the bottom of a steep-walled crater.  Imagine waking up each day to watch the pink rays of the morning sun illuminating the nearby sheer, two kilometer-high cliffs of Kasei, or being able to gaze at the endless ranges of the mightly 9000-meter tall (that's almost [i:post_uid0]30,000[/i:post_uid0] feet) North Wall of Mariner stretching away over the sharply curving horizon in the super-clear air of Mars.  Or being in a glass-enclosed rover, crawling for hours on end up and down the heavily cratered regions of the southern hemisphere, watching the dueling moons of Mars crossing the sky from west to east, not to mention witnessing the spectacular blue sunsets that Mars will surely be famous for.  As far as weather goes...Mars is not without its meteological wonders, either...just think of the vast, continent-sized dust storms that roll across the landscape in a giant, billowing waves, or those uber-sized dust devils that soar for thousands of feet into the the clear sky..and yes, Mars has clouds from time to time, just like the desert does on occasion..just no rain or snow...

Sure, there would be people that wouldn't want to expose themselves to any more cosmic radiation than is absolutely necessary, or to take that chance of depressurization each time one ventures out from the hab, and they would perfectly content to live and work under the regolith 24/7.  But the way I see it, if I gave up everything I had on Earth to go live on Mars, I'd be in a mindset to experience the mind-boggling beauty and geological diversity of Mars to the greatest extent possible, the 'risks' be damned.

Sorry for the rambling..it's the writer in me coming out this morning...  wink

B

Offline

#19 2002-10-26 19:36:08

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Byron, that was beautiful stuff!!

    If my enthusiasm was flagging before, it certainly isn't now!

    What you've written sums up so much of how I imagine it would be to live and work on Mars. Your words reveal how well you've visualised the whole thing.

    Excellent! Thank you.                           smile


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

Offline

#20 2002-10-27 01:03:55

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

I ditto what Shaun wrote about Byron's message.  I think the key to living on Mars is creating suits that don't make you feel like Stay Puft the Marshmallow Man.  We should work to create spacesuits that would be something like wetsuits that would work via mechanical pressure rather than air pressure.  They need to be highly comfortable and maintain as much of our natural flexibility as they can.  I'm not sure what to do about the helmet but it should be designed in such a way that it doesn't feel confining to a crushing point.  On Mars going outdoors will be far less of an ordeal than going outdoors on the Moon so I think it might be possible to relax a lot of burdensome spacesuit requirements.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

Offline

#21 2002-10-28 09:08:02

Byron
Member
From: Florida, USA
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 844

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Say, that was pretty good...  smile   Didn't know you were a poet, clark.. wink

This sonnet you've just penned makes it obvious that if and when people do go to Mars to begin a new life, it's going to get terraformed, one way or another...
"A thousand colors for red,
But only one lonely name for a shade of blue."  Sure says a lot, doesn't it?

B

Offline

#22 2002-10-28 10:43:15

clark
Member
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 6,253

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

Thank you Byron. big_smile

Offline

#23 2017-08-17 16:13:08

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,329

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

This would be a step towards not just a simple landed mission analog but one to see what it would take to build towards a colony if the general public can partake.

Offline

#24 2017-08-17 22:33:10

jburk
Webmaster
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2011-11-17
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

I just read this thread (and its initial post) for the first time.  The idea that the Mars Society doesn't want to build a prototype Martian settlement (on Mars) is silly.  All of the current major activities of the Mars Society are geared towards learning how to create analog research bases and all of the research/logistics/human factors around them so that we can later build (or inform who is going to build) one of these on Mars.  That's what we're all about -- settling Mars, one step at a time, including with a prototype first settlement.


James Burk | Webmaster & IT Director | The Mars Society
jburk@marssociety.org  |  +1 (206) 601-7143

Offline

#25 2017-08-29 14:47:28

The Contralmirante
Member
Registered: 2017-08-29
Posts: 4

Re: Very Cunning Amendments - Prototype Settlements Preempted

clark wrote:

Perhaps they realize that building and demonstrating a proto-type of a Martian settlement on Earth is the quickest way to demonstrate the disadvantages to living off planet.

Reporter: So what do you do all day?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Er, um, I sit inside, under the flickering lights, driving this little rover around in vacum.
Reporter: What do you do for fun?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Well, most of the time we have to do saftey drills,  do diagnostic sweeps, calibrate sensors, and triple check the machinery we pretend to depend on for life.
Reporter: So what are the advantages of pretending to live on Mars?
Proto-Mars Colonist: That's what we are trying to figure out, so far we have "science".
Reporter: What is the food like?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Rich and varied, all nutrious- of course by Earthly standards, it is sparse and tasteless. We have very little room for luxaries, as the cost is too great. Most of our food is soy based. Most of us would kill for ice cream, we feel for our Antartic cousins.
Reporter: Speaking of killing, is there crime in your community?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Nah, not really- what with all the cameras and other base sensors that monitor the status of the habitat 24/7, and the fact that we live in an enclosed and regulated environment, there is little opportunity for crime. Of course, it would be nice to have cloudy and cold days now and then, but the temp regs require 72 degrees, all the time- and due to the need for constant work throughout the day for maintainence, the lights are always the same in the general area.
Reporter: Why do you think people would want to go to mars?
Proto-Mars Colonist: Why? For the adventure of course, dosen't my life sound like an adventure? Well, dosen't it?

You tell mme.

It is very boring. But there is one aspect of colonizing Mars you forgot about. Renewable food. A food garden would be a must have for real Mars colonists. If an Apollo 13 type malfunction delays a supply run, with rations their only food, colonists are dead. One hundred percent isolation from the outside world (including reporters) would be a necessary part of establishing a test colony on Earth. Also B-12 deprivation is a serious issue. Without a high-tech chem-lab as part of the colony for creating artificial pills and liquids with vital nutrients like that, a full blown ecosystem within the real Mars complex would be necessary, including keeping animals for slaughter.

There are many such issues I see with colonizing Mars, but I'm determined to come up with solutions to every single one of them, same as the rest of you, I assume.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB