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#1 2004-09-16 13:59:57

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

James Webb Space Telescope has been talked about under several links. It is time to put it under its own topic.

http://www.stsci.edu/jwst/

Canada to build key component of NASA's next giant space telescope.
This major new observatory will take over where Hubble, Spitzer, and other space telescopes leave off.
When launched in 2011, JWST will peer into the past to greater distances than ever before.

Lots of stuff still yet to come as we move down that timeline to launch and hopefully on time for those still wishing to save Hubble or to send up a Hubble II.

http://www.space.gc.ca/asc....916.asp

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#2 2004-09-17 00:01:22

deagleninja
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From: USA
Registered: 2004-04-28
Posts: 376

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Hey SpaceNut, did you read the articles about a telescope in Antartica? Bout as close as we are going to get to the dark side of the moon eh?

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#3 2004-09-17 06:41:40

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Yes I breifly glanced though it, kind of stopped once they started saying that it would build with ice blocks and window pane glass.

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#4 2004-09-17 08:42:22

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Another telescope in the news.
ASTRO-F Telescope Passes Cryogenic Vibration Test
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/telescopes-04v.html

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#5 2004-11-16 08:31:47

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Finally an update on the sucessor to Hubble.
Fabrication of James Webb Space Telescope Mirror Moves Forward with the opening of a state-of-the-art facility in Cullman, Ala., that will machine the observatory's optical components.

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#6 2005-01-17 12:04:15

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
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Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

The news article (ESA Chief: Europe Needs Space Nuclear Power Options tells the story from this

The next big cooperative effort scheduled between ESA and NASA in space science is the James Webb Space Telescope, which NASA has tentatively scheduled for launch in 2011.

The two agencies had tentatively agreed that the NASA-led Webb Telescope would feature European participation in some of the instruments, and a launch on a European Ariane 5 rocket.

But no contract for the launch has yet been signed, and Southwood said he is awaiting a decision in Washington on whether the Ariane 5 will be definitively selected. NASA is normally prohibited from using non-U.S. rockets, with waivers being given in the case of international collborations such as that foreseen with the Webb Telescope.

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#7 2005-01-17 13:03:05

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Is the thing really that big that it will require an Ariane-V launch?


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#8 2005-01-17 13:16:31

Yang Liwei Rocket
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Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Is the thing really that big that it will require an Ariane-V launch?

I'm not too sure but it could be, here are some links with information on this future mission for the JWST scope

http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/area/i … fareaid=29

http://www.stsci.edu/jwst/overview/stat … tatus.html

http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/News/Release_0 … 2-109.html

could be a great mission  smile


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#9 2005-01-17 13:30:39

Grypd
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From: Scotland, Europe
Registered: 2004-06-07
Posts: 1,877

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

What they have been telling ESA and the British Interplanetary society was that they hoped all 18 mirrors would be made by 2009. The actual Mirrors are hexagonal in shape and are 1.3metres each. The total mirror size on the main mirror is 6.5metres in width made of berylium and with the scoring planned for the underside will be instead of 250kg will actually only way 21kg.

I think the reason for the wish to use an Arianne 5 is that the mission planners believe that they will not have the shuttle and the need for a large diameter in payload is best suited to an Ariane.


Chan eil mi aig a bheil ùidh ann an gleidheadh an status quo; Tha mi airson cur às e.

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#10 2005-01-17 14:04:15

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 2,401
Website

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

It sounds like for seeing deep into space optical isn’t as inportant or atleast not as effective.

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#11 2005-01-17 14:36:17

Euler
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From: Corvallis, OR
Registered: 2003-02-06
Posts: 922

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Is the thing really that big that it will require an Ariane-V launch?

The Webb telescope is only 6,200 kg, but you have to remember that it is going to SEL-2 rather than LEO.

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#12 2005-03-07 10:12:14

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Well I have neared down to chosing this thread out of the two that seem most appropriate. The other is   HST and James Webb

The Scientists focus on state-of-art telescope

SCIENTISTS at Edinburgh's Royal Observatory have begun work on a revolutionary telescope which will be able to map the night sky in record time.

Preliminary tests have been carried out on instruments for the James Webb telescope inside the Blackford Hill facility’s new £4 million extension.

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#13 2005-04-07 10:41:12

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Like the thread indicates
Hubble errors haunt new telescope team; Experts to test eye in space
Background on why the caution:

Before the Hubble Space Telescope could revolutionize our knowledge of the cosmos, it required the equivalent of very expensive eye surgery from astronauts in 1993.

what will be done:

Now, more than five dozen of the nation's top optics experts are in Rochester this week to help NASA avoid those infamous mistakes when Hubble's successor is launched in 2011.

The team's purpose is to advise the National Aeronautics and Space Administration on ways of testing the various parts of the Webb while it's on Earth to ensure that it also works when it is floating weightless at temperatures of about 370 degrees below zero.

This marks the third annual meeting of the James Webb Space Telescope product integrity team, and the group's first meeting in Rochester.

Why it must be done:

Because the Webb will be orbiting at a distance of about 1 million miles, instead of the Hubble's 400 miles, "there's no way to fix this when it's up there," Moore said.

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#14 2005-04-07 13:47:51

dicktice
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2002-11-01
Posts: 1,764

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Orbiting at a distance of about 1 million miles, would place it where? I could look it up I suppose, but you all seem to be up to speed on it already, so ...

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#15 2005-04-07 20:01:13

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

It would appear from looking for the distance that it is the L2 lagrange point.

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#16 2005-05-19 10:57:54

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Time for reflection; Boulder's Ball Aerospace & Technologies is finishing its work on a prototype mirror for the next space telescope

Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp. is nearing one of many milestones as it works on a 10-year, $200 million contract to build mirrors for the nation's new space telescope.

When the James Webb Space Telescope launches in 2011, it will be equipped with 18 mirrors now being designed and built by the Boulder-based company.

The first mirror - a demonstration unit - will be shipped to a California-based subcontractor in June to be polished. That process will take about a year, and the mirror must pass several more hurdles before it is approved.

It leads the first six real mirrors by about six months. They will be delivered in 2008 to Northrop Grumman, which is assembling the telescope.

No wonder why it is going to take so long to get the telescope launched...

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#17 2005-05-19 14:01:12

GCNRevenger
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From: Earth
Registered: 2003-10-14
Posts: 6,056

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

It is difficult to express in words and common macroscale analogies just to what tollerances large telescope mirrors must be ground & polished.


"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw

The glass is at 50% of capacity

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#18 2005-05-19 14:19:56

Palomar
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From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

It is difficult to express in words and common macroscale analogies just to what tollerances large telescope mirrors must be ground & polished.

*I can't begin to imagine.

Around age 13 I was considering building my own telescope.  Purchased a book from Edmund Scientific, planned to start obtaining the materials and etc.  Fortunately I began reading before starting to order parts.  Mama mia!  :-\ 

No one would assist me on the project and an uncle (who was a jack of all trades if ever there was one) lived too far away to help on anything but a twice-yearly basis.

So yeah, your point is well taken.  Creating a mirror for a backyard 'scope is daunting enough.  Let alone something on the scale of a huge pro scope?

(And I'm still wondering what this thread is doing in the Human Missions folder  :hm: )

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#19 2005-05-20 03:26:24

Yang Liwei Rocket
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Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Orbiting at a distance of about 1 million miles, would place it where? I could look it up I suppose, but you all seem to be up to speed on it already, so ...

some want to chop this mission down like the  plans like Prometheus, Mars Science Lander were significantly cut or delayed, Voyager might be gone and Geotail, FAST are in trouble


they are trying to chop it down a bit, $1 billion cost overrun, may need to be scaled down, Northrop Grumman says construction to cost $309 million more than expected and new NASA accounting rules add another $100 million
JWST might not go anwhere

will this add more fuel to the save-Hubble plan ?

a link here

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/f … 8/5724/935

:hm:


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#20 2005-05-26 08:28:11

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Cost overruns put squeeze on Hubble’s successor (JWST)

Intended to be the centrepiece of space science in the coming decade, the price tag of the James Webb Space Telescope has already soared to a staggering $3.5 billion.

Why has this occurred?

Cost overruns are inevitable in projects which push technological boundaries, says John Bahcall at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, who thirty years ago told Congress that Hubble could not cost more than $300 million. In fact it cost $1.5 billion to build and put into orbit.

Eric Smith of NASA's astrophysics programme blames Webb’s overrun on a one-year launch delay to 2012, increased costs by prime contractor Northrop Grumman, and an assortment of smaller programmes.

Shuttle cost to bring to orbit could be blamed for the higher cost..

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#21 2005-05-26 12:13:10

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7423] Cost overruns put squeeze on Hubble’s successor (JWST)

Intended to be the centrepiece of space science in the coming decade, the price tag of the James Webb Space Telescope has already soared to a staggering $3.5 billion.

Why has this occurred?

Cost overruns are inevitable in projects which push technological boundaries, says John Bahcall at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, who thirty years ago told Congress that Hubble could not cost more than $300 million. In fact it cost $1.5 billion to build and put into orbit.

Eric Smith of NASA's astrophysics programme blames Webb’s overrun on a one-year launch delay to 2012, increased costs by prime contractor Northrop Grumman, and an assortment of smaller programmes.

Shuttle cost to bring to orbit could be blamed for the higher cost..

*I recently saw an article to that effect, can't recall which web site.  I was going to post it, but figured it already had been, didn't have time to Search to confirm that, and then there was an illness in the household. 

Astronomers are VERY unhappy.  And who can blame them?  I think the words "getting frantic" were used.  :-\

My poor dear astronomers. 

Maybe it's a deliberate push in the direction of the furtherance of adaptive optics.  Not trying to imply a "plot" or conspiracy theory, but a bit of "misdirection" on the part of the gov't wouldn't surprise me in the least.  Hopefully I'm completely wrong.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#22 2005-07-17 23:12:55

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Finally an update on the sucessor to Hubble.
http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/page … abrication of James Webb Space Telescope Mirror Moves Forward with the opening of a state-of-the-art facility in Cullman, Ala., that will machine the observatory's optical components.

some pictures of JWST telescope

http://bbs.defence.co.kr/html/bbs/data/ … %20001.jpg

http://www.ballaerospace.com/media/imag … /jwst.html

http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/media … ..._lr.jpg


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#23 2005-08-23 05:46:07

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Found note of cost overrun:
space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html

Shank noted at the Mars Society meeting that HST’s follow-on space scope -- the James Webb Space Telescope -- is over-budget big-time. “There’s a $1 billion cost overrun that we’re looking at,” he said.

Well have found that the cost overrun is blamed on rocket selection.
House committe document:

Earlier this year, NASA announced that the cost of the James Webb Space Telescope, the planned successor to the Hubble Space Telescope and one of NASA’s highest priority space science programs, would increase by approximately $1 billion to a total of $4.5 billion. NASA attributed the cost growth to higher-than-expected costs for integration and testing, cost increases for the instruments, and program delays because of uncertainty in the selection of a launch vehicle. The
cost overruns were especially surprising because they occurred at an early stage of the program.

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#24 2005-09-26 12:43:08

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

Ottawa's EMS wins key component design contract for NASA's next giant space telescope

The Canadian Space Agency recently
awarded a $26.2-million contract to the Space and Technology Group of   
Ottawa-based EMS Technologies for the detailed design of a fine guidance
sensor and a tuneable filter for NASA's next-generation space telescope.
    The fine guidance sensor supplied by Canada is essential to the success
of the mission. It will track the positions of very faint stars with great
accuracy so that the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) can be pointed steadily
while its other instruments generate high-quality images. The level of
precision achieved will be like aiming at a dime 100 km away. This critical
role makes the Canadian team very proud to be part of this international
project. The tuneable filter camera will provide unique scientific
capabilities. One example of these is narrow-band imaging, a powerful way to
explore the morphology of celestial objects at very specific wavelengths.

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#25 2005-09-27 10:46:53

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,185

Re: James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) - 6.5m mirror, L2 orbit

I could not believe this when I found this quote on another site:

the cost of the Webb telescope goes up a billion to $4.5B and the schedule slides 2 years to the right. It's all worth it, though, because the good news is they get to launch on a European rocket.

Did some checking and it is true.

Last week NASA's James Webb Space Telescope program received approval from the U.S. State Department to launch on a European Ariane 5 rocket, finally clearing a hurdle that added roughly an extra year of delay to the already technically challenged program.

Is Nasa hurting or what...

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