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#51 2003-01-29 22:30:02

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

I have doubts about terraforming other planets, mainly the physiological harm of low G and the overall uncertainty of getting sufficiently livable results to make the project worthwhile.

I'm feeling a bit cynical about the prospects of people living on Mars indefinately for exactly the reasons you mentioned.  I think there will be Martian bases here and there that people will rotate in and out of but I'm not sure if a civilization will ever develop there.  Hopefully it's a phase I'll just snap out of but I'm starting to wonder if humanity will ever leave this planet in a big way and settle elsewhere in the cosmos.

Terraforming strikes me as the Vogons, destroying a planet to make way for a hyperspatial bypass.

Vogons?  ???  I don't see anything unethical about terraforming a dead rock that's devoid of life.  Even at this point if there's nothing higher than bacteria on Mars I'm not sure I'd be opposed to terraforming especially if the bacteria's origin turns out to be Earth.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#52 2003-01-30 07:56:47

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Colonizing asteroids

I don't see anything unethical about terraforming a dead rock that's devoid of life.  Even at this point if there's nothing higher than bacteria on Mars I'm not sure I'd be opposed to terraforming especially if the bacteria's origin turns out to be Earth.

*I think a lot of the "don't terraform, don't change Mars" comes about as a response to the guilt over colonization of previous centuries.  Sure, going on insane killing sprees of herds of buffalo in North America and of elephants, lions, rhinos etc., in Africa was stupid and wrong; so was slavery, etc.  But I don't see why there "has to" be a correlation between settling on a (most likely) dead rock and mistakes of the past.  It seems this is all about extremes, i.e. 100 years ago and beyond it was okay and desirable to gallop around killing any living animal for the sake of big-trophy hunting...slash and burn was the order of the day as well.  Now we've got people who consider it near criminal to step on an ant or to pluck a wildflower along a highway.  Can we say "extremes"?  Yep.

I don't believe we should stop ourselves from pursuing future dreams because of what boneheads did in the past.  LEARN and move on.  smile

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#53 2003-01-30 17:57:13

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Hear hear !!

    I agree wholeheartedly Cindy and Phobos.
                                      smile


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#54 2003-01-30 19:51:51

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Colonizing asteroids

I have doubts about terraforming other planets, mainly the physiological harm of low G and the overall uncertainty of getting sufficiently livable results to make the project worthwhile.

I'm feeling a bit cynical about the prospects of people living on Mars indefinately for exactly the reasons you mentioned.  I think there will be Martian bases here and there that people will rotate in and out of but I'm not sure if a civilization will ever develop there.  Hopefully it's a phase I'll just snap out of but I'm starting to wonder if humanity will ever leave this planet in a big way and settle elsewhere in the cosmos.

*Please don't get discouraged or cynical.  I honestly believe mankind can achieve and accomplish anything we set our minds to do. 

As for low gravity being the problem, I seem to recall some (yeah, I know...) science fiction story wherein visitors to another planet had g-boots, which can be adjusted to provide normal gravity for the wearer.  Science fiction tends to become science fact.

"Where there's a will, there's a way."

--Cindy

::prepares big bucket of ice cubes to pour down Phobos's back, to snap him out of that mood::


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#55 2003-01-30 23:15:31

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

*Please don't get discouraged or cynical.  I honestly believe mankind can achieve and accomplish anything we set our minds to do.

It's refreshing to hear such a statement nowadays.  I don't know where the hell my statement that we won't colonize Mars came from.  If I really believed that I wouldn't be here.  Ever since I crushed my hand it seems all I do is dwell on the darkside of things and be contrary to everything.  A bucketload of ice poured down my back is probably what I need to break out of this stupid spell.   :angry:


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#56 2003-02-10 04:24:08

Shaun Barrett
Member
From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2001-12-28
Posts: 2,843

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Hi Phobos!
    I wasn't agreeing with the 'we'll never colonise Mars' bit, just the 'I can't see a problem with terraforming' bit!

    And you're right about Cindy's refreshing optimism ... I like it too! Though I'm having some trouble with the 'gravity boots' idea - at least in the next few decades! (But who can argue with Cindy when she says that sci-fi has a habit of becoming sci-fact?)

    I hadn't noticed your post until today, Phobos. I was very upset to hear you'd crushed your hand! It sounds terrible.
    What's the prognosis?
                                     sad  sad  sad


The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

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#57 2003-02-10 12:22:36

Palomar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2002-05-30
Posts: 9,734

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Shaun:  "Though I'm having some trouble with the 'gravity boots' idea - at least in the next few decades! (But who can argue with Cindy when she says that sci-fi has a habit of becoming sci-fact?)"

*It's already a fact, my dear.  Every pair of boots I've ever worn are just as good as shoes or my bare feet in keeping me planted on the ground.  wink  Ha ha, couldn't resist a little joke.

Shaun:  I hadn't noticed your post until today, Phobos. I was very upset to hear you'd crushed your hand! It sounds terrible.
What's the prognosis?
           
*Yeah, I'm wondering the same.  I sent you a PM, Phobos...maybe it didn't go through.  Hope all is well with you currently.

--Cindy


We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

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#58 2003-02-13 12:47:11

Phobos
Member
Registered: 2002-01-02
Posts: 1,103

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Thanks for the concern about my hand. smile  I've just been reduced to pecking at the keyboard which is a major pain in the !@# but I'll live. big_smile  I never received the PM, I'll back and check maybe it didn't come up.


To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

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#59 2004-05-30 09:43:08

Yang Liwei Rocket
Member
Registered: 2004-03-03
Posts: 993

Re: Colonizing asteroids


'first steps are not for cheap, think about it...
did China build a great Wall in a day ?' ( Y L R newmars forum member )

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#60 2004-06-08 23:59:46

geo_flux
Member
Registered: 2002-01-08
Posts: 11

Re: Colonizing asteroids

people said that disaster and mass unemployment would strike because of industrialisation.  automated systems need only a fraction of the workforce to run them.  instead of disaster we ended up with a whole new range of employment options and an increase in the standard of living.
much the same should happen if heavy industry is moved off-planet.  new employments will be created to fill the void, tourism has already been mentioned, other examples include R&D, programming, telepresence, entertainment, etc etc.

It seems to me that arguments favouring Mars over asteroids are mainly emotional or based on opinion.  If we are to become space faring we should utilise space to its fullest and that means space habitats. why enter another gravity well after spending so much energy getting out of one in the first place?

geo_flux
(long time reader first time writer)

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#61 2004-06-09 08:43:42

dicktice
Member
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2002-11-01
Posts: 1,764

Re: Colonizing asteroids

How do we "know" that Mars's gravity won't be good, nay, better than Earth's rather than worse, for us?

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#62 2004-06-10 01:53:36

geo_flux
Member
Registered: 2002-01-08
Posts: 11

Re: Colonizing asteroids

lifes evolved on this planet under 1G gravity and has adapted to it for 4 billion years or so.  I think its common sense that by this time life is most suited to the gravity that it has experienced since the beginning.  Why would our bodies be better adapted to an environment we've never experienced?

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#63 2004-06-10 08:21:39

dicktice
Member
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2002-11-01
Posts: 1,764

Re: Colonizing asteroids

I asked how do we know? and you asked why would it? Well, taking the engineering approach of imagining feasible extremes, I'd want to ask (a) if Earth's gravity had been twice (2 G's) as much, would 1 G be better or worse for organisms such as us, and (b) had it been half a G, would 1 G be worse?  What I'm leading up to is: Between 1 G and 0 G, mightn't there be an optimum force of gravity that could extend longevity off-Earth, as a nonprofit incentive for financing the pursuit of space research and exploitation?

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#64 2004-06-12 17:48:54

geo_flux
Member
Registered: 2002-01-08
Posts: 11

Re: Colonizing asteroids

And the answer is that anything is possible, its all a matter of probabilities.  Martian gravity might be better than Earth gravity, and zero gravity might be better than Martian gravity(assuming one doesnt want to re-enter a gravity well ever).  All such questions are completely hypothetical and we could debate them for ever and still be no closer to the truth.

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#65 2004-08-02 14:54:05

prometheusunbound
Member
From: ohio
Registered: 2003-07-02
Posts: 209
Website

Re: Colonizing asteroids

I asked how do we know? and you asked why would it? Well, taking the engineering approach of imagining feasible extremes, I'd want to ask (a) if Earth's gravity had been twice (2 G's) as much, would 1 G be better or worse for organisms such as us, and (b) had it been half a G, would 1 G be worse?  What I'm leading up to is: Between 1 G and 0 G, mightn't there be an optimum force of gravity that could extend longevity off-Earth, as a nonprofit incentive for financing the pursuit of space research and exploitation?

I know extremely obose people who benefit from walking in a pool for therapy.  They almost float, creating a condition of what can be described as low-g.  This seems to allow them greater moblity at a lessened risk of falling, thus encouraging them to exersise.  In this case, (and perhaps for heart patients and arthisis patients?) low g is benefictial.


"I am the spritual son of Abraham, I fear no man and no man controls my destiny"

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#66 2005-04-11 04:34:51

srmeaney
Member
From: 18 tiwi gdns rd, TIWI NT 0810
Registered: 2005-03-18
Posts: 976

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Actually, if you are going to colonize an asteroid, why not try out the Dadelus project. Tack on some nuclear motors and just check out what is beyond the solar system. If the Nuclear drive can get a self sustained colony to the next star with modern technology, let us see where it takes the human race.

All you have to worry about is a flow of energy and radiation and cosmic gas that exceeds the limits of everything we have achieved thus far.

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#67 2005-04-15 16:43:49

Fledi
Member
From: in my own little world (no,
Registered: 2003-09-14
Posts: 325

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Maybe there will not even be another narrow point when we will have colonized most of the solar system.

There is the Kuiper Belt and the Oorth Cloud out there after all.
Wouldn't even be that difficult to provide energy when we have fusion power by the time.

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#68 2005-07-26 18:18:32

Stormrage
Member
From: United Kingdom, Europe
Registered: 2005-06-25
Posts: 274

Re: Colonizing asteroids

What a rip roaring good idea. I think i feel more pro-asteroid  then mars right now. <gets scared>

That website has been so carefully planned out. Everything explained in detail. The only problem is f*** NASA.


"...all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by."

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#69 2015-11-25 22:29:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 17,360

Re: Colonizing asteroids

Was not able to fix all the shifting or artifacts as that will need the admin to do so.

We have now just begun to explore the asteriod belt with the Dawn mission with Nasa changing the mission to bring back one in its futures using the SLS.

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