To become self sufficent on the red planet

cambrian · 2004-03-12 14:13:43

Just curious what you all think is necessary to create a self sustaining society on mars and how long it will take to get to that point. Obviously a continuous supply or food water and energy are essentials. But what about producing objects/materials for the long term(worn out machine parts, clothing, new materials for expansion, techinal computer parts etc)
What is the bare minimum that we need?

clark · 2004-03-12 14:42:17

A man, and a woman. Bare minimum.

Some air might let them live a little longer too. :laugh:

Bill White · 2004-03-12 15:12:29

[=http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-base-04d.html]Micro-terraforming - something I have long supported doing. Far more feasible than giant mirrors or a gadzilion tons of greenhouse gases or smashing thousands of comets into Mars.

Forget total closed loop for now. Add to the eco-system as needed and throw away as needed. Strive to close the loop as much as possible but don't be ideological about it.

clark · 2004-03-12 15:20:37

I read that article, and it reminded me of KSR's character who drops a bunch of little windmills (basic concept) to try and kick start some terraforming.

Didn't work to well though in the fictional account.

If this route is pursued, more work should be done on making the system passive. Once in a while, in a store, I see these things called "self contained ecosystems". Usually has a small plant and a fish inside. All closed up.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-03-12 19:02:49

I have no real idea about the minium requirement but I have read some stuff on this issue, some people say that we would need at least 100,000 KG of equipment, steel, plastics, soils and other material moved to the planet before naything can happen.Plus of course there isn't enough research and design being done about a future Mars mission, the betting organisations offer 50-to-1 odds against humans landing on Mars before the year 2031.

Mars is a horrid, dry and dead world, but next to the moon it isn't too bad a place for setting up a future base or colony, the people have evidence of something below the surface. Mars has very thin air and almost no water but it has permafrost under the dust, so there is water below, it just can't exist as a liquid because of the thin light atmosphere.
There are many people who have been looking into how to put life on mars, in some kind of biological mini eco-sphere, much like a greenhouse. There are many articles wrote by the people on main site newmars.com plus there are links to other sites with other ideas.

Is there a way of getting a few plants, moss or organism to strech their abilities and to adapt to the harsh ground icy conditions in an early mars dome built by robotics? Or maybe we should think of dropping a pre-made dome with our living things onto the mars landscape? NASA is doing great things right now but its cash is low. The lander probes have shown Mars was once a warm and wet planet, suitable for hosting life's origin. Without thinking of the benefits to science, aerospace designs , having a manned mission to Mars will give us other ideas, there are a number of geologists who would love to look for microbes , and tell us the answer, are we alone? But to set such a station up will be an enormous task.

Such we be sending our bio-domes on a test flight to the moon first? Could our best people construct a Super-fish-tank, fill it with gold fish, a tank that could survive in the deepest cold and vacum of outer-space, and other bad conditions. Knowing life, we also know that some alga can live in harsh conditions, fish can survive in depts beneath the cold ices of the artic, things surviving in the Australian sands, and life was growing in an earth billions of years ago, an earth we would think to hostile for life. Shouldn't we be able to make life survive in the darkness of space?

We now have evidence that we are changing the Earth's atmosphere and environment in significant ways. Now it is critical that we understand all our Earths cycle and its environment. We can compare and contrast conditions in our planet systems, something that is very imporant as we increase toxins from our worlds factoris and face the threat of greenhouse gas emissions. Having people on Mars , living, researching might bring these answers on the cycles of planets and their delicate systems.

To create a self sustaining society on mars migt be easy if we are only going to send a high-tech bio-sphere of fungus to land, live and survive on the planet, but we are not. The people in NASA intend to do something mcuh greater than this, and I hope they can do it because it will benefit mankind greatly.The people who do this will be brave ineed, some have even suggested a one-way ticket to mars! Even this kind of barvery won't solve some of our basic problems, martian radiation levels, the harsh ground, the cold. How can we make plants live in this type of condition. There has already been much research done on mice living in lower gravity, the International Space Station (ISS) has lots of info on the effects of weightlessness on the humanbody plus we can see what light-levels plants and greens need to grow in space. Mars has other conditions seasons , its levels of sunlight are lower than earths, and dust storms . The photosythesis rates will be much lower plus can the structure of a bio sphere base withstand such stress and conditions?

The first obstacle we must overcome is knowing the martian ground, we must find out if there is any large levels of sub-water below ground on Mars. If we do find these large trapped layers of underground water on Mars, then the best site(s) for a colony should be identified straightaway. In fact at least one of the rovers should be doing this job right now, and only this job. Chosing a site for the future people of Mars. The USA could out big money into this, put man back in outerspace, return to the moon with human explorers by 2020, and possibly as early as 2010 but with the Shuttle grouded after the recent disaster there are now many complications.

Some say we must build a bio-dome on the moon before we go for Mars but the moon has many problems also. What should we do, pick a deep crater, nicely sized crater/hole and stick a glass roof and solar panles on top and call it our new base? The Moon is a lot nearer but its has many complications even lower gravity, variations in massive heat and real cold. The Moon has several useful elements, including some trapped oxygen; but it is short of hydrogen for water, no good carbon type molecules, and a lack of nitrogen which has many uses in industry on Earth, and of course the Moon has no air. Even if the odds are against us building cities on the moon don't bet on it. In the early 1960s, William Hill offered 1,000-to-1 odds against a human landing on the moon before the end of the decade ? and paid out 10,000 pounds in 1969 when David Threlfall won his 10-pound bet.

The Americans and Russians have learned much from the effects of zero gravity, but the space stations like ISS were never self sufficient, food and water had to be trasported back and forth at huge costs. In order for a bse on the moon to survive it must stand alone on its own two feet. Plants and greens must grow and live on a lunar colony, there is also the issue of their pollination , plus of course there will possibly be errors, mishaps or gas leaks like that in our previous space stations.

There are many firms and company now that look into sustainable bio domes and bio spheres. Ones in Canada, Europe, Asia and the US. Some of the results end in disaster others learn lots, but fail early and some continue on. We must push this type of research to its limits. There are companies now doing a
a simulation on Earth of a five person sustainable biospheric life support basedesigned for Mars that can be replicated & extended for additional crews and robotics ( maybe they having been watching the movies? ). We laready know of many space-systems for water and wastewater recycling, but now they have other issues food production, and air purification for a large group of people. Plus these people will have to work, dig out places, map areas, use their robotics eat their food, live their life in comfort, pave the way for future explorers ( build another base? ) and rest at night. Knowledge gained from the building of such a habitat can be used train future Mars explorers.

The Russians know much about living in space, Europeans have studied in outer space and the US has done some great things. NASA have the best chance of getting us there. We are we very far behind, we don't have the stuff necessary to create a self sustaining society on the Moon or Mars, we have much to do, but don't bet against us. Mankind has built and done wonderous things in the past and will do great things into the future.

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#1 2004-03-12 14:13:43

Re: To become self sufficent on the red planet

#2 2004-03-12 14:42:17

Re: To become self sufficent on the red planet

#3 2004-03-12 15:12:29

Re: To become self sufficent on the red planet

#4 2004-03-12 15:20:37

Re: To become self sufficent on the red planet

#5 2004-03-12 19:02:49

Re: To become self sufficent on the red planet

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