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#101 2021-09-10 13:24:48

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 4,120

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Well, I will start with Spacenut's topic:
"Earth's Oceans Explored -but why not colonized".

I guess I will ask the question in turn:
"Mars Oceans may have existed, why not recreate them to habitate?"

This topic caused me to think it over.

If Mars had even 3, maybe even 2 times the pressure it has now, and the tilt were
changed in order that all parts of Mars on average received the same warming,
then their would be chances for ice covered seas.

In reality, I think that it is said that at most Mars had seas twice.  The first
time by normal manners, and the second time abnormal, where the seas then quickly
froze.

So, Mars has apparently not been very prone to have seas.  More prone to be glacial.

Seas if established on Mars would typically be shallow, and would most likely be ice
covered.  Typically, there would be a big one in the North Hemisphere, and a
smaller on in the Hallas basin.  A few other ones.

Shallow ice covered oceans would be ideal for humans to habitate.

So, by my definition the Artic Ocean comes closest to what could be habitated in
the Oceans on Earth.

------

I will compare the North Polar Sea of Earth, to a potential North Polar Sea on Mars.

The one for Mars will have to be created by someone, maybe humans and their robots.

Here might be some of the differences:

-Ice disruption for Earth, not so much for Mars.
The Earth has tides, and storms with strong winds which will tend to break up the
ice and move it about.  Not so much for Mars.

The movement of Ice is good for sea mammals on Earth, but would not be a good
place to habitate for humans for the same reason.

-The Ocean on Earth tends to be deep, not so for the sea to be created on Mars.

On Mars, the ocean generally shallow, perhaps 100 feet, would present almost 1 bar
pressure on its bottom where that is so.  It may even be possible if the ice and
water were clear, that light would penetrate all the way to the bottom, allowing
organisms that do photosynthesis to grow there.

Our oceans are mostly a cold dark abyss.  Not suitable for humans for the most part.

The Martian ocean would allow stable structures on top of the ice, under the ice,
in the water column, and on the ocean floor.

Further mining into the crust of Mars from a 100 foot deep ocean, would be a radiation
shielded, ~1 bar environment.  You could tunnel under the sea floor to make more
habitation space.  On our world, Earth, in most places this would not be easy, and
almost certainly profitable.

-----

The method humans could employ to build a Martian Ocean(s) would be to overcome
the planets heat rejection.  Actually lots of heat pours into Mars, but it mostly
does not rise to a temperature where significant melting can occur.

Two things to change that:
1) Double or more the atmospheric pressure to allow cold liquid water to exist.
2) Use machines to capture that energy, and melt ice, allowing an ice layer to
form, over the created sea(s).  In reality this melt process would be the cold side
of an energy producing heat engine method(s).

Once a ice cover with water was established, that in itself may be a heat collecting
device.

So, in my opinion, the difference between our Oceans, and Oceans created on Mars, is
you would like to extract things from Earth's oceans, and travel across them.
Our land has an atmosphere we can use for our metabolism  So, we want to stay near
the atmosphere.  On Earth this mostly is land.  The surface of the seas on Earth are
too unstable for most structures, and the Oceans are too deep.

On Mars, in its oceans that I think should be created, you have a partial 3 dimensional
environment.  Earth is much more 2 dimensional.

Just my opinion.

By the way, 100 feet = 30.48 meters.

So, yes we should habitate the Oceans....On Mars.

Done smile

Last edited by Void (2021-09-10 13:27:36)


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#102 2021-11-20 12:59:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,368

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Void has spark my interest in this topic once more and along has come this news article.

UN-backed floating city built to withstand Category 5 hurricanes is headed to South Korea95fcc3412d78f586a8535dc1831b111c

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#103 2021-11-21 09:59:19

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,368

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

A repost

tahanson43206 wrote:

For RobertDyck,

The article at the link below is about a book about soil.  I am hoping this post is a good fit in the debate you have set up here:

***

The article at the link below is about the value of soil for growing food. It includes the assertion that growing food in rich soil provides more nutrients than growing food in non-soil environments, but I suspect that may be more a reflection of deficiency in the practice than a fundamental deficiency in the method.

Never-the-less, I get the impression by a soil enthusiast would be worth considering by anyone serious about living off Earth.

It appears to be written for those who live or may live on Earth, but the principles should be transferable to other planets and locations.

If a member of NewMars decides to read this book, please post a synopsis.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/solutio … 29732.html

The solution to climate change? It could be right under your feet
Jamie Blackett
Sat, November 20, 2021 1:25 PM

Pulling a carrot from the earth - Alamy
This is a very timely book. Farmers are pondering regenerative agriculture, gardeners are discussing “no dig” and we are all worried about reaching carbon “net zero”. But few of us know what we are talking about, largely because the scientific community has spent more time studying the stars than the soil on which our survival depends. As Matthew Evans observes: “For me, soil seemed dull and insipid.” Yet, “Good soil isn’t just an abstract concept; it’s a thing of wonder … There are more living things in a teaspoon of healthy soil than there are humans on Earth.”

Most importantly, Evans explains how regenerative agriculture that draws carbon out of the atmosphere into the soil so that it is “like chocolate cake’” (through minimising soil disturbance and exposure, diverse cropping and grazing livestock) is our best hope of reversing climate change. He quotes Stéphane Le Foll’s “quatre pour mille” idea: that if all the world’s soils under human management were to increase in soil carbon by just four parts per 1,000 (0.4 per cent) annually, virtually the entire global increase in carbon emissions for each year could be offset. Suggestion for Mr and Mrs Thunberg: please pop a copy of Soil into Greta’s stocking this Christmas.

Soil is published by Murdoch Books at £14.99. To order your copy for £12.99 call 0844 871 1514 or visit the Telegraph Bookshop

(th)

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#104 2022-01-07 14:25:26

Mars_B4_Moon
Member
Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 1,267

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

Japan space tourist eyes Mariana Trench trip after ISS

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Japa … S_999.html

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#105 2022-01-08 19:37:44

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 24,368

Re: Earths Oceans Explored - but why not colonized

I am assuming that a calm sea is required for this to work.
Embracing a Wetter Future, the Dutch Turn to Floating Homes

Cross-Section_AhlqvistAlmqvist.jpg

sort on stilts but then again inside a lagoon would work also

Maldives-Floating-City_Maldives-Floating-City.jpg

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