Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

Bill White · 2003-06-24 10:37:17

This may be a controversial metaphor, one that speaks mostly to baby boomers in North America, but here goes:

Perhaps it is helpful to think about "doing Mars" as being rather like the senior prom.

<1> Funding: As a practical matter, money for Mars needs to come from the US government. Maybe not all of it, but much of it. The need for US government cooperation is confirmed IMHO by the need for heavy lift capability and nuclear fuel for power generation. North Korea's efforts to develop ICBM technology (heavy lift) and Iran's efforts at nuclear power are currently seen as possible justification for war. The proliferation of heavy lift capability and nuclear power to folks outside the good graces of the Pentagon just won't happen.

Anyway - I submit that the beltway bandits, the Washington bureaucrats, will ask space advocates the same question a sleazeball high school senior boy asks when thinking about prom. Lets see, $1000 for prom tickets, tuxedo, dinner, limo, flowers, etc. . .

Okay, tell me again, what exactly will I be getting for my money?

<2> Scientific virtue. At this years Mars Society Convention, Dr. Chris McKay will be speaking about his views that we need a plan to "back out" from Mars, to retreat if native life froms are discovered. Frankly, I see much abstract merit to this idea. Protecting native Marsian life should be given a very high priority, as always IMHO. Yet how does this impact the first question?

If we commit to leave if we actually find life, what will the beltway bandits actually get in return for spending the many billions of dollars needed to get to Mars? How far are the scientists willing to go in accepting/imposing risk on Marsian life, if any there be?

Thus, IMHO, the scientists are faced with another prom question. How much will Dr. McKay and other like minded scientists agree to compromise, to avoid sitting at home?

clark · 2003-06-24 10:45:27

Okay, tell me again, what exactly will I be getting for my money?

If there was more of us, or we were politcaly organized, we would reply: votes

But PAC's aren't as sexy as rockets.

At this years Mars Society Convention, Dr. Chris McKay will be speaking about his views that we need a plan to "back out" from Mars, to retreat if native life froms are discovered.

The man will do more to harm the Mars society cause than help. This idea that we have to back out is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction perpetuated by greenies veiled in some sickening post modern PC garb.

We live on this planet, among the myriad of life. Today, I stepped on a bug. Should I be making plans to move from my town now?

We find life, great. So what? It's not divine. It's not holy. It's not the end all be all of existence, is it?

If we commit to go to Mars, we should commit to staying in space. That's the challenge.

Palomar · 2003-06-24 11:21:15

This may be a controversial metaphor, one that speaks mostly to baby boomers in North America, but here goes:
Perhaps it is helpful to think about "doing Mars" as being rather like the senior prom.

*Not if it's Carrie's senior prom.

--Cindy

Sorry, couldn't resist...

clark · 2003-06-24 11:23:09

Isn't that the one where she goes ape and murders everyone in her graduating class, in a spree of blood and violence?

That's not highschool prom, that's just highschool.

Sorry *I* couldn't resist.

dickbill · 2003-06-24 13:58:04

<2> Scientific virtue. At this years Mars Society Convention, Dr. Chris McKay will be speaking about his views that we need a plan to "back out" from Mars, to retreat if native life froms are discovered.

Is that the "extremophile" Maggie Zubrin was talking about in another thread ?
Anyway, it looks like a reminiscence of american freudian culpability with the "american first nations", the amerindian, not the devilish indians, the good one I, mean. But it's too late, it's not because you save thousands of bacterial lifes on Mars that you are forgiven for thousands of human life on earth

Bill White · 2003-06-24 14:40:59

But it's too late, it's not because you save thousands of bacterial lifes on Mars that you are forgiven for thousands of human life on earth

IMHO, there is enough spilled blood in our common human history to cover everybody's hands.

Anyway, only cowards and losers live in da' past (so says da' Coach). What matters is where we go from here.

(Mucho mojo to whoever can identify da'Coach, btw)

dickbill · 2003-06-24 14:57:36

IMHO, there is enough spilled blood in our common human history to cover everybody's hands.

that's sure...

so the "extremophile" thread didn't refer to the "extreme" point of view that we need to withdraw from Mars if there is some life there ?
I was confused by that thread, as extremophile, for me, represents archae bacteria that we discussed somewhere else in the forum, but it didn't fit to the topic.

At any rate, I hope that a report of Dr Kay speech will be available somewhere.

Cobra Commander · 2003-06-27 21:27:08

To start,

We find life, great. So what? It's not divine. It's not holy. It's not the end all be all of existence, is it?
If we commit to go to Mars, we should commit to staying in space. That's the challenge.

Clark, well said.

Now, Dickbill:

But it's too late, it's not because you save thousands of bacterial lifes on Mars that you are forgiven for thousands of human life on earth

It seems to me that if Mars were habitable and populated by some Martian equivalent of the American Indians, we would have been there for decades and be well on our way to wiping them out... in the most politically correct way, of course. Making them dependents on the new Human government, most likely. Would that be "wrong", or just natural? Animals migrating to new areas and wiping out other species isn't unusual, is this really any different?

clark · 2003-06-30 09:11:51

Cobra,

Animals migrating to new areas and wiping out other species isn't unusual, is this really any different?

I agree with your sentiments, but this line of reasoning is a dead end.

When comparing human behavior to that of the animal kingdom, you necessarily establish that human behavior is no different than the animal kingdom.

Dog chases cat which chases mouse which chases the cheese... etc.

Animals do X, and we accept that as the rational order of things.

Enter the argument:

If Animal does X, and it is right and proper given that the animal is merely behaving as it was designed/evolved to do, then Animal doing X is acceptable.

SO it then follows in a case of reverse anthromorphication, we assume that Human behavior, when a corollary exists within the Animal Kingdom, must be right and proper.

But it isn't.

We, unlike out animal brethren, have the capacity to understand our actions.

A Cat chases the Mouse because it is a Cat, and it is a Mouse.
The Cat will chase as many Mice as often as it is hungry, and as often as there is a mouse.

The Cat never thinks of a day without mice. It merely acts.
A mouse never devises a way to rid itself of the Cat (unless that mouse is named Jerry, or for the new generation, Itchy).

If we find life on Mars, then we should take steps to protect it.

That doesn't mean we have to remove ourselves from the planet though. Also, it doesn't mean we aren't allowed to change the environment on Mars.

How can we do both?

We can't. And at some future point, pragmatism rules. We say, Human life is paramount. We say, Martian Bugs, in all their infinite wonder, and in what they represent, are still infinitesimally worth less than that of Human life.

This isn't about European's vs. Native Americans. This is not Human versus Human. This is species versus species, and we didn't become rulers of our planet by saying "hey, we come second in the grand scheme of things."

So what does all of this mean then?

It means we need to be responsible in our actions, wise in our choices. It means we need to prevent meaningless destruction, but we must be prepared to destroy when the time comes.

Martian Bugs could be a boon, a myth, or just an idle scientific curiosity, only time will tell. I just hope level heads prevail.

Bill White · 2003-06-30 11:47:42

We can't. And at some future point, pragmatism rules. We say, Human life is paramount. We say, Martian Bugs, in all their infinite wonder, and in what they represent, are still infinitesimally worth less than that of Human life.

I concur.

space_psibrain · 2003-07-26 01:45:34

Well...in the world of politics, that is very true...

Youth...please join JSA and help make space exploration a part of our platform, so that the politicians will listen. Long ago, we were able to give 18 year olds the vote...if we stand together, we can help to make manned missions to mars a reality. Remember...we control the future groups...so become aware and become activists...

Hazer · 2003-11-08 14:51:20

"Perhaps it is helpful to think about "doing Mars" as being rather like the senior prom."
You know how much I spent to go to my senior prom? $125 all together. Was it a good prom? Yep. Of course, my former high school isn't run by the government.
Life ain't like high-school. High-school is a small part of life.
The metaphor is flawed.

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#1 2003-06-24 10:37:17

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#2 2003-06-24 10:45:27

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#3 2003-06-24 11:21:15

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#4 2003-06-24 11:23:09

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#5 2003-06-24 13:58:04

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#6 2003-06-24 14:40:59

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#7 2003-06-24 14:57:36

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#8 2003-06-27 21:27:08

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#9 2003-06-30 09:11:51

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#10 2003-06-30 11:47:42

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#11 2003-07-26 01:45:34

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

#12 2003-11-08 14:51:20

Re: Life is like high school; - A metaphor for Mars?

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