NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

deagleninja · 2004-09-09 07:28:26

The time has come, my fellow Americans, to devote our minds and hearts to a new Manifest Destiny! We have settled this great country from sea to shining sea, now the seas of space becon us.

We have the technology and resources to open up a new frontier for American occupation. We have the will to open new oppertunities for our children and grandchildren.

We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because we want English spoken throughout the solar system. We want a McDonald's on every crater and Survivor: Olympus Mons!

Seriously, isn't it time for our government to lay the 'traintracks' to new frontiers? Phase out NASA over 10-20 years and begin a new Department of Expansion. What do you guys think?

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-09 07:35:22

As stated earlier, I like the idea. But I'm the fascist imperialist goon.

Some sort of long-term settlement oriented program is needed however, even if we are a bit more subtle about it.

Commodore · 2004-09-09 07:42:19

As much as it needs to be done, it should be done as a multi-national effort. It will be much better and prevent a lot of problems int he future.

Of course to do that theres alot of work to do politically on Earth.

deagleninja · 2004-09-09 07:46:34

Just think of the size of our flag in 100 years! Where are we going to put all those stars?!?

This just in, the US has claimed the entire inner solar system as its 51st-54th states!

Seriously though, why not? If we can put people on Mercury, Mars, Luna, Europa and other places, who is to tell us stop? If we wait too long, then other countries will go as well. Then you have do deal with potential embarassing situations like trying to explain why our rail guns 'accidentally' shot down the third Russian colony ship.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-09 08:43:52

I think a world race would be the right term for those we should included and since America is the melting pot of the world, yes american would most likely then be the choice that could and should do this expansion. But do it in the name of the world and not of a nation.

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-09 09:05:34

Yes, go boldly forth in the name of the world and humanity! With an American flag emblazoned on our ships.

A true multi-national effort entails all sorts of problems, and in some ways defeats the entire point, at least as I see it. Cultural dominance, one language across human-controlled space. Inviting others on board compounds problems, if other nations can do it on their own by all means welcome them to the club, but why degrade our own efforts to assist another who in all likelihood would not do the same? We don't need to be belligerent or condescending about it, we could even give foreigners crew slots in exploration and settlement missions. Yet if we can do it on our own, to do so will lead to a better future for us.

Besides, we are better suited to it culturally. America was founded by pioneers. Those who we would be working with, they are descended from those who stayed behind. There's a subtle cultural rift that while easily overcome in individuals could prove problematic in a bold cooperative settlement program.

Besides, do we really want to help the Chinese settle space? I don't. I'd much rather we take it for ourselves, as much as we can and make it home. Make the galaxy America!

SpaceNut · 2004-09-09 09:14:26

Inviting others on board
Well that could be one way to earn money by the seat.

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-09 09:23:13

Well that could be one way to earn money by the seat.

It would have financial benefits, but at the expense of the unity of mission. Rather than Americans establishing an American settlement based on certain ideas they're all familiar with, suddenly we have a multi-national crew with different views and goals trying to build a settlement. It's taking a short-term monetary gain at the expense of results later.

Besides, a direct competition with other nations would be better at furthering the program anyway, imagine a race to colonize the solar system! The progress that could be made if we have to grab prime celestial real estate before the Chinese or the Russkis, it would spread humanity across this system so fast you wouldn't know what happened. One day you wake up and Bam! Titan is petitioning for statehood.

I have this sudden urge to laugh like a super-villain. :hm:

SpaceNut · 2004-09-09 09:29:23

If it were not for existing treaties it just might pan out that way.

BWhite · 2004-09-09 09:35:12

Since Rev. Jerry Falwell and Rev. Jesse Jackson are both American Baptist preachers, I suspect an all-American settlement will have suffiicent diversity by itself.

BWhite · 2004-09-09 09:37:05

Well that could be one way to earn money by the seat.
It would have financial benefits, but at the expense of the unity of mission. Rather than Americans establishing an American settlement based on certain ideas they're all familiar with, suddenly we have a multi-national crew with different views and goals trying to build a settlement. It's taking a short-term monetary gain at the expense of results later.
Besides, a direct competition with other nations would be better at furthering the program anyway, imagine a race to colonize the solar system! The progress that could be made if we have to grab prime celestial real estate before the Chinese or the Russkis, it would spread humanity across this system so fast you wouldn't know what happened. One day you wake up and Bam! Titan is petitioning for statehood.
I have this sudden urge to laugh like a super-villain. :hm:

Yup.

Five years ago, this exact thought motivated the plot premise of my almost finished book. Its frightening how we think so much alike yet reach diametrically opposed political conclusions.

:;):

Palomar · 2004-09-09 10:02:39

*Americans only, huh?

Well, I guess that automatically excludes Rxke, Gennaro, Antitarev (Anatoli), Shaun Barrett, John Creighton, dicktice, Robert Dyck (our own Mr. Spock), Stu, and even Adrian! Not to mention djellison...IIRC, he's from England.

Hot dang...that's half our regular New Mars contributors at least, and the lead moderator.

(My apologies if I forgot a name or two...not intentional)

Bad idea. :down: My 2 cents' worth.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-09 10:13:50

If it were not for existing treaties it just might pan out that way.

It may yet. Treaties have never really stopped us from expanding before, and if the world really does hate us we might as well take the opportunity to act. Can't get much worse. :;):

Its frightening how we think so much alike yet reach diametrically opposed political conclusions.

Indeed, I've had shudders of my own at the realisation.

*Americans only, huh?

Not at all, just an American program. Working with people from foreign countries is very different from working with foreign governments.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-09 10:15:53

As I put forward earlier America is the melting pot of the world with many blocks in our largest of cities with people from many nations. Choice of nations throw that concept out, choice of earthlings in and include all thoses willing to pull in the same common direction into the mix of thoses going forth to colonize space.

Oh, by the way I am from a little hick town in NH and have worked side by side many from Egypt to Ireland, Spain, Cambodian, and more. I call them all freind. Not the race and not there national but by Name...

deagleninja · 2004-09-09 10:38:54

Ugh, can't believe I'm going to say this but......

COBRA COMMANDER IS ABSOLUTLEY RIGHT!! :up:

America is the most diverse nation in the world. All races will be represented. There is no reason to enter into another ISS failure. Treaties are made to be broken. In a perfect world cooperation is great, but we don't live in a perfect world. The reality of our situation is we are killing ourselves trying to keep the ISS on some kind of schedule for countries that contribute a tiny amount of money and who's main contributions are photo-ops.

Make the galaxy America!!

MarsDog · 2004-09-09 13:25:31

Make the galaxy America!!

USA will have to eliminate Earth competition first, Iraq is not completed. Then comes North Korea etc. Just think of President Bush's advisors fighting terrorists from Alien civilizations.

Cobra Commander · 2004-09-09 13:54:55

Just think of President Bush's advisors fighting terrorists from Alien civilizations.

:laugh: Optimistic timetable.
But if we can get it going before the Bush Administration is out of office I'm for it!

Let's roll!

SpaceNut · 2004-09-09 14:06:12

Then there would be no problems with a unified Earth effort to colonization at that point.

Mad Grad Student · 2004-09-09 23:00:08

Well, I guess that automatically excludes Rxke, Gennaro, Antitarev (Anatoli), Shaun Barrett, John Creighton, dicktice, Robert Dyck (our own Mr. Spock), Stu, and even Adrian! Not to mention djellison...IIRC, he's from England.

Wow. I'm no good with remembering people's names (very, very bad, but I can't help it!), so I'd be lucky if I could remember half that many contributors without consulting the user index. How do you fit all this stuff into your head? Mine's already stuffed way too full of Pre-Calc/French/AP History to cram this kind of stuff in. :;):

I'll have to agree with Cobra on this one. Hey, I'm all for Rxke, Gennaro, et al and the other countries joining America in the frontier, but it ought to be whoever has the vision to go, goes. Every man for himself. It's a sad fact of the human condition, but frontier shock alone will probably not be enough to fully reinvigorate (sp? Awwwwgh!) our collective creativity juices. We need competition, friendly is better, but if worse comes to worse I'd much rather accept a war between the Martian sepretists and the Captialist People's Republic of China (which will become the dominant superpower in the solar system, as it looks now) than a global dark age like that which folllowed the decline of Rome.

That said, I don't find the creation of a new office of colinization likely. It will take a massive paradigm shift to change the way Washington thinks about space, and that will be very difficult to achieve. If China stays on the ball, however, well, who knows? Even if it means we get eclipsed by them, I'd love to see humanity venture out any way it can.

PS: If the above post is practically unreadible because of spelling/grammer errors, sorry. I got about four hours of sleep last night staying up to finish a History presentation and don't have time to proofread right now, a combination that's never pretty to look at.

...Must... do.... French homework.

comstar03 · 2004-09-09 23:12:56

What about private enterprise telling the each government to go take a jump and land like the solar probe ( sideways and into the ground without a parachute ) You all determine that its a government that will do this; what about a family corporation do this - by creating a space organization controlled via a charter looking similar to a government constitution. ( remember a group of men developed the constitution that created USA or any other courty on earth ) why can't a group of business people do the same, outside the existing countries and then protect their territory.

Euler · 2004-09-09 23:46:44

What about private enterprise telling the each government to go take a jump and land like the solar probe ( sideways and into the ground without a parachute ) You all determine that its a government that will do this; what about a family corporation do this - by creating a space organization controlled via a charter looking similar to a government constitution. ( remember a group of men developed the constitution that created USA or any other courty on earth ) why can't a group of business people do the same, outside the existing countries and then protect their territory.

Because no corporation has the resources necessary to colonize space, and they would not be able to make a profit if they tried.

I would be in favor of NDSS. However, if NDSS replaces NASA, it would be nice if there was still and organization that keeps doing exploration of deep space.

comstar03 · 2004-09-10 01:38:19

Euler,

You have a low opinion of private enterprise, I see that you don't think they could do it. Over the past century it hasn't been government that innovate the world that we have but enterprise. So you still have that opinion, example rail guns are designed off linear accelerator drive system, place strategically guarding the access to a planet could destroy any ship coming towards it. Again does that require, a vast resource, No. You should understand that corporations re tools for groups of individuals like governments are for populations of regions.

Corporations have hire mercs, ex-cia, and other security professionals to manage their security including hostage protection and other actions. In development of space it could be played out of generations that own the corporation. from history dukes, earls, barons and more controlled land, estates, and people within those lands and estates, it could happen in space the same way , that would be legal under the current space treaty. In the 21st Century it could be replaced with Corporate Owners.

Yes, if that started to happen then the world governments including the US would change the treaty and act differently.

Rxke · 2004-09-10 02:17:46

***BEGIN TRANSMISSION***

Greetings from Rxke, Gennaro, Antitarev (Anatoli), Shaun Barrett, John Creighton, dicktice, Robert Dyck (our own Mr. Spock), Stu, and even Adrian! Not to mention djellison and a lot of others!

*Robert, stop hammering on that Energyia-rocket, I'm trying to make myself heard, here!*

Just to warn you guys we're all but finished cobbling together our first MarsDirect vehicule, made out of spare parts from our willing-to-donate-for-the-good-cause spaceagencies, and we intend to launch before you can say "Ansari XPrize Competition!"

See ya!

Oh, err... 'bout the baulky oxygen-generator on the ISS... Sorry 'bout that, but we needed some of the parts for our own ship, so we secretly shipped said back down with the latest Soyuz return flight... You guys were planning to disband it anyway, not? Still good friends?

*Ok Robert, I'm finished here, let's roll!*

***END TRANSMISSION***

Euler · 2004-09-10 02:33:23

Corporations exist to make money. How does colonizing space help them make money?

comstar03 · 2004-09-10 02:40:51

Euler,

You and many others have a narrow view on what a corporation is !!!!

Corporations are there - yes to make profits, but more important to the wishes of the shareholders. Also Corporations are there to shield the owners from other persons to find out who , controls some resources.

You can generate money from other sources and spend out to expand into space to build more resources ( physical ) that in the long term provide greater wealth than you had before.

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#1 2004-09-09 07:28:26

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#2 2004-09-09 07:35:22

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#3 2004-09-09 07:42:19

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#4 2004-09-09 07:46:34

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#5 2004-09-09 08:43:52

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#6 2004-09-09 09:05:34

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#7 2004-09-09 09:14:26

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

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Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#9 2004-09-09 09:29:23

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#10 2004-09-09 09:35:12

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#11 2004-09-09 09:37:05

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#12 2004-09-09 10:02:39

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#14 2004-09-09 10:15:53

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#15 2004-09-09 10:38:54

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#16 2004-09-09 13:25:31

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#17 2004-09-09 13:54:55

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#18 2004-09-09 14:06:12

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#19 2004-09-09 23:00:08

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#20 2004-09-09 23:12:56

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#21 2004-09-09 23:46:44

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#22 2004-09-10 01:38:19

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

#23 2004-09-10 02:17:46

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#24 2004-09-10 02:33:23

Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

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Re: NDSS National Department of Space Settlement - We've explored, now let's occupy!

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