Rutan to try for orbital spaceplane?

deagleninja · 2004-09-14 19:07:28

Hey WK/SS1 enthusiasts! Here's a link to some important developments with NASA's X-37 projects and Rutan's team.

http://space.com/news/nasa_x37_040914.h … 40914.html

Pretty interesting stuff eh? Makes ya wonder if phase II will be an air breathing hybrid rocket.

PurduesUSAFguy · 2004-09-14 22:17:50

Using the White Knight for a launch platform for atmostphereic tests makes a ton of sense. It was designed specifically for that application, and it's hourly opperations cost must be a tiny fraction of the compared to the B-52 that NASA uses for atmospheric tests.

It makes so much sense in fact that I wonder if NASA might consider buying a dedicated craft like the White Knight or Prometheus from Rutan to replace the modded BUFF which is rapidly aging.

deagleninja · 2004-09-15 05:56:09

Good point USAFguy, I was thinking along the same lines.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-15 06:31:01

Yup this one was posted also in another thread as well.
page 5
http://www.newmars.com/cgi-bin....entry74

I thought at first it was an awakening but others though it was just a gloss over for the hidden agenda of Nasa.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-15 07:04:31

Nasawatch is indicating that the partner in the research effort for the x37 is top secret.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-15 07:39:14

The x 37 was part of the cancelled OSP programs that were announced shortly after the president announce his vision of space exploration.
Last news release on this for a Nasa site:
http://www1.msfc.nasa.gov/NEWSROOM/news … 3-126.html

I wonder why continuing work is being done on a cancelled project?

Mark S · 2004-09-15 10:10:29

I'm very excited to see that NASA is actually teaming with private industry rather than poo-pooing their accomplishments like in the Dan Goldin days.

The X-37 should not be viewed as Rutan's attempt at an orbital spaceplane. It will probably never make a powered flight, just glide flights from White Knight.

There have been rumors that Burt Rutan wants to make an orbital, one-passenger version of SSO. I am a bit skeptical of this but I also feel that if anybody could do it, it would be Burt Rutan.

In the near term, I expect him to build Space Ship Two, which would fly higher and give passengers more space to float around in. It would probably need a pure liquid-fuel engine instead of a hybrid, but would otherwise be similar to SSO.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-15 19:46:37

Spacetoday post is that DARPA to take over X-37 program
NASA is turning over control of the X-37 RLV technology demonstrator, NASA officials confirmed Wednesday. While this ends the speculation, what does it really do for the x 37 development in the long run.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-15 20:33:07

I think we were all hopefull that private industry would be given a chance to prove itself but that is not the case with this story for at least the x 37.

But it seems that the doors are finally starting to open for companies to at least submit concepts.

Snipet:
To better understand the full range of commercial participants interested in meeting all or a subset of NASA's emerging space transportation requirements, please provide the following information:

1.Space Transportation Capability

a. Description of capability
b. Planned launch site/infrastructure
c. Current/planned production/annual launch capability
d. Technology maturity level, for new developments
e. Order-of-magnitude estimate of recurring service price (identify key assumptions, e.g., flight rate)
f. Order-of-magnitude estimate of non-recurring price (identify key assumptions, e.g., government/industry cost sharing, if any)
g. Estimated schedule from a service contract award to Initial Operational Capability (IOC)

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION
NASA Special Notice: Commercial Space Transportation Services in Support of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration

http://www.comspacewatch.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=13965

PurduesUSAFguy · 2004-09-15 20:47:25

Well one of the big things that the X-37 is supposed to eventually test is it's new metallic thermal protection system which will do away with the finacial sink hole that is the tile system. In theory it is supposed to be tested in space around fy 09' launched on an EELV.

Mad Grad Student · 2004-09-15 22:56:14

Using the White Knight for a launch platform for atmostphereic tests makes a ton of sense. It was designed specifically for that application, and it's hourly opperations cost must be a tiny fraction of the compared to the B-52 that NASA uses for atmospheric tests.
It makes so much sense in fact that I wonder if NASA might consider buying a dedicated craft like the White Knight or Prometheus from Rutan to replace the modded BUFF which is rapidly aging.

Sounds cool, but it's not that simple. White Knight would be the perfect air launch platform for anyone's needs high or low in the atmosphere, so long as they don't need to launch anything over 10,000 pounds. For raw brute force there's simply no beating the B-52 and its 82,000 pound bomb-er pay load. NASA could try adapting something like a 777 or an MD-11 to do the job, like Orbital Sciences did for Pegasus, but that'd be time and money consuming, so for now they'll probably stick with the Stratofortress when working with the big stuff.

But for smaller payloads, I agree, White Knight would give you by far the best bang for the buck. :;):

SpaceNut · 2004-09-16 07:35:51

More news on the x 37:
The X-37's body flap was made longer and narrower to better fit onto one of the (alternate) launch vehicles like the Delta IV rocket.

Arnold testing concludes on NASA's X-37 demonstrator
http://www.spacetoday.net/getarticle.php3?id=51568

SpaceNut · 2004-09-17 07:53:33

Since we probably do not have a Darpa topic or one on Falcon I thought this was the best place to post.

News release page
http://www.darpa.mil/body/news.html

Award for work
Airlaunch LLC, Reno Nev.; $11,372,342
Lockheed Martin Corp., Space Systems Co., New Orleans, La.; $11,691,215
Microcosm Inc., El Segundo, Calif.; $10,498,353
Space Exploration Technologies Inc., El Segundo, Calif.; $8,000,000

DARPA, AIR FORCE KICK-OFF FALCON PHASE II SMALL LAUNCH VEHICLE
EFFORT
http://www.darpa.mil/body/NewsItems/pdf … ph2_t1.pdf

Program fact sheet
http://www.darpa.mil/body/NewsItems/pdf … s_rev3.pdf

deagleninja · 2004-09-17 09:30:35

I think the Air Force is thinking of using something like the WhiteKnight to launch their 'space fighters' they want so bad by 2025. It makes sense really, when you think about it. Instead of keeping a staff and squadron of fighters in LEO and subjected to all the dangers inherent in being there, (not to mention expenses) you instead build a fleet of WhiteKnights capable of launching several sub-orbital fighters which can then defend satellites with long range missles.

I think the x-37 is just a cover to study the WhiteKnight and copy that technology.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-17 14:22:26

I am also thinking that since Nasa is restructuring for exploration that it is time they started off loading specific projects that do not necessarily support that function.
It also was a part of a brief discussion at the appropriation hearing that when ask a question in that manner it was a if they wanted Nasa to sort of reduce its load of responsibilities.

Mark S · 2004-09-17 17:44:21

If the Air Force wants "space fighters" so badly, pirating the White Knight is not the way to do it.

The airplane has the right layout for dropping daughter-ships, but it is far to small for anything that would orbit the earth with a useful payload.

By contrast, Boeing was working on a system called "Air Launch" to put the X-37 into orbit. It consisted of an entire Athena rocket with Pegasus-style tail and wings, launched from the back of a 747. And the X-37 is not very big to begin with; it's essentially a recoverable micro-sat like the other ones the Air Force has on the drawing boards and in the experimental phase.

Sorry, but I think that space fighters will remain solely in the realm of the George Lucas profit machine for many decades to come.

SpaceNut · 2004-09-20 11:32:39

SpaceDev Begins Work on ''Dream Chaser'' Space Vehicle Space Act MOU Signed with NASA Ames Research Center

SpaceDev has begun designing a reuseable, piloted, sub-orbital space ship that could be scaled up to safely and economically transport passengers to and from low earth orbit, including the International Space Station. The name of the vehicle is the "SpaceDev Dream Chaser™."

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040920/205170_1.html

NASA, SPACEDEV TO COLLABORATE ON FUTURE SPACE TRANSPORTATION
http://amesnews.arc.nasa.gov/releases/2004/04_89AR.html

deagleninja · 2004-09-20 12:47:05

Great article SpaceNut thanks. I think NASA is making a wise choice choosing SpaceDev. They have proven very professional and innovative.

Mark S · 2004-09-20 18:31:39

At first glance, Space Dev's proposal looks like a safe, yet innovative plan. It matches the established aerodynamics of the X-34 with their proven, safe hybrid motor technology. In fact, this proposal has been around on the net since arund April 2003, before Space Dev had gained fame with their SpaceShipOne motor.

Already, I see a downside. Wings on a space launch vehicle are, at best, a necessary evil. On the X-34, the wings were sized to pitch the vehicle up while its tanks were full and the engine was burning. Space Dev's vehicle will not need very large or very strong wings like the X-34. However, the X-34 type wings do have the advantage of allowing for a gliding abort should anything go wrong in the boost phase of flight. Still, the vehicle requires active control during its gliding descent, and will not have the built-in stability of a capsule or Burt Rutan's "shuttlecock" system.

SpaceNut · 2005-05-10 12:11:05

Update to what was reported so long ago.
Rutan to test Boeing X-37

3 drops planned from the White Knight turbojet under Darpa.

The X-37 was one of three X-plane projects launched during the Clinton administration to test technologies for future spacecraft. The others, X-33 and X-34, were canceled after technical difficulties and cost overruns.

So what technologies are being tested?

RobertDyck · 2005-05-10 14:25:56

- DurAFRSI heat shield
- automated navigation of a manoeuvrable orbiter

It was started by the air force when VentureStar was bidding. The air force wants to ensure a space shuttle replacement can manoeuvre in orbit. This one will do so without any crew, America's first automated manoeuvrable spacecraft.

SpaceNut · 2005-05-31 05:31:46

White Knight Prepares For New Mission

The X-37 has been billed as an unpiloted, autonomously operated vehicle designed to conduct on-orbit operations and collect test data in the Mach 25 (reentry) region of flight.

My question is how does a suborbital flight with the white knight get the x37 to these velocities?

X-37

Rutan, NASA Collaborate On Space Plane Test

GCNRevenger · 2005-05-31 06:56:00

It doesn't. Its just going to drop the X-plane at subsonic velocities, and see if its aerodynamics and autopilot work.

SpaceNut · 2005-05-31 08:34:24

So these are preliminary tests before trying to get the unit to reach those speeds for real re-entry testing.

GCNRevenger · 2005-05-31 09:21:07

These would just be tests to see if the thing can fly (itself) like an airplane at speeds/altitudes following the wild ride of reentry. If you want to test it at actual Mach 20+ speeds, you'd need to put it on a rocket.

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#1 2004-09-14 19:07:28

Re: Rutan to try for orbital spaceplane?

#2 2004-09-14 22:17:50

Re: Rutan to try for orbital spaceplane?

#3 2004-09-15 05:56:09

Re: Rutan to try for orbital spaceplane?

#4 2004-09-15 06:31:01

Re: Rutan to try for orbital spaceplane?

#5 2004-09-15 07:04:31

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#6 2004-09-15 07:39:14

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#7 2004-09-15 10:10:29

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#8 2004-09-15 19:46:37

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#9 2004-09-15 20:33:07

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#10 2004-09-15 20:47:25

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#11 2004-09-15 22:56:14

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#12 2004-09-16 07:35:51

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#13 2004-09-17 07:53:33

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#14 2004-09-17 09:30:35

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#15 2004-09-17 14:22:26

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#16 2004-09-17 17:44:21

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#17 2004-09-20 11:32:39

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#18 2004-09-20 12:47:05

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#19 2004-09-20 18:31:39

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#20 2005-05-10 12:11:05

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#21 2005-05-10 14:25:56

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#22 2005-05-31 05:31:46

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#23 2005-05-31 06:56:00

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#24 2005-05-31 08:34:24

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#25 2005-05-31 09:21:07

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