Huygens Probe to Titan

Palomar · 2003-12-09 10:43:07

*A friend of mine here at the boards and I are both looking forward to the arrival of Huygens to Titan late next year (2004); its also estimated to land (or splashdown, as it would seem) in 1/05. Somewhere, hopefully, between 12/04 and 1/05.

I'm establishing this thread for purposes of new "news" articles in the interim pertaining to Titan -- and, of course, for when Huygens finally reaches its destination (I know, I know...I can't wait, so sue me!)

I've found a couple of really good articles pertaining to beautiful and alluring Titan; the link above (with a gorgeous space-art insert...imagine Saturn slipping up over the horizon as you watch!) and these below:

http://www.space.com/science....15.html

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/t … 21218.html

Lastly, a repost from months ago (usually I avoid reposting, but it's a good article and I can't find the original post in the many pages of the "New Discoveries" threads):

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/t … 31014.html

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2003-12-10 00:04:55

Looks like we're getting a whole bunch of Christmas/New Year presents at Mars this year and a wonderful two-part present at Saturn next year!!

I'm just a big kid like you, Cindy. ... "Is it Christmas yet, is it Christmas yet .. ?!!
:laugh:

Palomar · 2003-12-10 09:06:01

Looks like we're getting a whole bunch of Christmas/New Year presents at Mars this year and a wonderful two-part present at Saturn next year!!
I'm just a big kid like you, Cindy. ... "Is it Christmas yet, is it Christmas yet .. ?!!
:laugh:

*Ha ha, Shaun. Were you one of those kids (like me) who woke up on Christmas day between 3:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m., wanting to open your gifts NOW? :;):

Actually, I can't help feeling the crunch of time in all this. You and I both know how long it takes some of these little beepers to arrive at their destinations, especially out there among or beyond the Gas Giants. The "New Horizons" probe, for instance (to Pluto), is scheduled for launch in 2006 but won't reach its destination until 2015.

Yipes. Why does the word "mortality" begin ringing faintly in the back of my mind when considering the time requirements?

Going back to Titan: I just love the way the author of one of those articles described what it would be like to be a visitor on Titan. It's so wonderful, all of it.

"I only want to see you laughing in the methane rain."

--Cindy

Another good link (includes nice photo of scientists working on the probe):

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/overview/huygens-probe.cfm

::EDIT:: The link immediately above also includes this little gem (simulation): Updated daily, you can track Cassini-Huygen's current position in the solar system (God bless the internet!):

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/operations/p … sition.cfm

jadeheart · 2003-12-10 16:54:51

speaking of all these upcoming events (i'm also drooling in anticipation of saturn by the way) does anybody know of where there's a comprehensive calendar of upcoming (& projected) space exploration events for 2004? it's going to be a really big year for space exploration & i've already forgotten a bunch of what's supposed to happen (mars, X prize, the comet rendezvous, saturn, planetary society's solar sail, the list goes on).

and does anybody know where there might be any live TV coverage of Mars Express/Beagle on Christmas day? i'll be staying up late for that on christmas eve... they're calling for possible first signal acquisition from beagle at 05:15 GMT on Christmas.

space... the gift that keeps on giving.

Palomar · 2003-12-10 20:33:01

speaking of all these upcoming events (i'm also drooling in anticipation of saturn by the way) does anybody know of where there's a comprehensive calendar of upcoming (& projected) space exploration events for 2004? it's going to be a really big year for space exploration & i've already forgotten a bunch of what's supposed to happen (mars, X prize, the comet rendezvous, saturn, planetary society's solar sail, the list goes on).
and does anybody know where there might be any live TV coverage of Mars Express/Beagle on Christmas day? i'll be staying up late for that on christmas eve... they're calling for possible first signal acquisition from beagle at 05:15 GMT on Christmas.
space... the gift that keeps on giving.

*"Space...the gift that keeps on giving." I like that, jadeheart!

I wish I had a link to provide you with. I'll be on the look-out for one, but so far I haven't seen any such timetable of all events for 2004. There are individual timetables at the specific sites, such as for Cassini-Huygens (in my most recent post), but not an "overall" one that I've yet found.

As for the TV coverage of 12/25 (Beagle)...I don't know. I have the day off, of course, so will be watching the news channels throughout the day. I thought someone here previously mentioned having "the NASA Channel," but I've never known it to be available in my area...if I'm even remembering correctly that such a channel supposedly exists.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-12-11 10:11:35

*A very recent (last month) photo from Cassini-Huygens as it continues to approach Saturn. Nice shot. Notice how the shadow of Saturn's globe cast back onto the ring makes the ring appear as if it has a partial gap in it.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031210.html

--Cindy

Mark · 2003-12-27 08:12:29

Yes, this is very, very interesting stuff indeed. Apparently some believe that Titan is much like what Earth was billions of years ago, before life spawned here. It is believed that Titan has alot of the ingredients for life to start, but is too far and cold(around -178 degrees Celcius). One day though, when the sun starts expanding into a red giant, who knows, perhaps things may start to stir on Titan. Anyway, alot of the articles at space.com and other places go into depth with that. That whole Saturnian region is a very interesting one and as of June/July 2004 we will begin to learn alot about it. If the Huygens probe succeeds, we will finally be able to see what lies beneath Titan's thick atmosphere and on it's surface.

And yes, that space-art with the thick, orange, mysterious clouds and Saturn rising along the horizon does look incredibly beautiful. In 2005, we'll see whether that's how things look from the surface.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-12-27 20:00:25

Mark:-

In 2005, we'll see whether that's how things look from the surface.

Is it immoral to wish your life away?!

Mark · 2003-12-28 07:22:35

I have a question regarding Titan, apparently the pressure on Titan is the equivalent of the pressure at the base of a 10ft swimming pools(1.5bars i think). I don't know much about pressure at all, but does that mean that pressure shouldn't be a to big a problem on Titan?

Shaun Barrett · 2003-12-28 22:23:17

As far as I know, the surface pressure on Titan is about 1.5 bar and a human should have no trouble breathing air at that pressure.
From memory, I believe Titan's gravitational acceleration is only 1/7th that of Earth. If Titan were closer to the Sun and therefore warmer, it wouldn't be able to hang on to all that 'air'. The molecules of its gases would be moving much faster and would achieve escape velocity and/or be sputtered away by the solar wind.

But, in theory, I suppose a human rugged up in thermal underwear and wearing a heated respirator could wander around on the Titanian surface without a pressure suit. But in fact, any exposed skin would freeze very quickly in the ambient temperatures of roughly -200 deg.C and I think there are some exotic and toxic gases mixed in with the atmospheric nitrogen, too. Maybe some of those would absorb through exposed skin and cause problems even if the intense cold didn't getcha!!
:laugh:

Mark · 2003-12-28 22:31:53

So looking at it, in some ways, it'd be easier to get humans walking around on Titan rather than Mars or Europa?

Shaun Barrett · 2003-12-29 01:45:10

Europa's a no-go area because of the intense radiation. As for Mars versus Titan, I think it'd be a 50 - 50 thing with survival gear.
For the reasons I mentioned, I don't think exposed human skin is any more realistic a proposal on Titan, despite the atmospheric pressure, than it is on Mars.
There'll be frequent occasions on Mars, at least in summer, when thermal insulation during the daylight hours will only need to be quite minimal. With further developments in the elastic pressure suits currently being researched, astronaut mobility and comfort on Mars should be much better than it was for the Apollo crews on the Moon.
The radiation comparison between Titan and Mars must surely favour Titan, I imagine, given the protective effect of all that air. And, if hab interiors are kept at the same pressure as outside (and I don't see why that shouldn't be the case), there'll be no problem with adjusting to different gas mixes at different pressures when going out onto the surface and coming back in. But what if the surface there is treacherous and unstable and astronauts occasionally disappear into the methane slush?!!
???
Hmmm ... it's a difficult call, Mark.
Considering that the difficulties may be fairly well matched on both worlds, I think I'd prefer poking around on Mars if they gave me the choice.
Unfortunately though, I see no reason to believe they're in any hurry to actually give me that choice any time soon!!
:;): :laugh:

Mark · 2003-12-29 02:46:51

Yeah, it seems that out of any other place in the solar system, Mars and Titan are the most likely candidates for humans to set foot on. I think at THIS point though, it's hard for us to compare Titan and Mars simply because we know so little about Titan, where as we seem to know a whole lot more about Mars. But with the Cassini along with the Huygens probe, we should know just about as much about Titan as we do about Mars now. We haven't even seen the surface of Titan, for all we know it could have solid continents where outposts could be set up. Two big advantages that Titan seems to have(that humans wouldn't have to combat) are radiation and pressure.

Palomar · 2004-01-03 06:19:26

*Shaun asked in the "Airplanes on Mars" thread:

"Am I remembering correctly that the Huygens probe, several years in transit out to Titan, will send back pictures for maybe an hour and a half?"

*I don't recall reading that. Of course, I do so much reading that I may have forgotten. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain such a short time (1-1/2 hours) would have stuck out in my memory (from past articles I've read).

I hope the duration isn't that short. I'll be on the look-out for information in that regard.

--Cindy

Mad Grad Student · 2004-01-04 18:33:07

Sorry, Cindy, but Huygens will only give us 1 and a half hours at best of images of Titan. That's alloting for a long 45 minutes in the atmosphere descending and the probe operating for 15 minutes longer than excpected. It only has 90 minutes of battery power, so whatever it's going to do it needs to do fast.

What we really need is a follow-up to Huygens that's cheap enough to fit FBC (Or at least the same budget as the MERs) and will launch a plane/helicopter to Titan. An easy way to do this would be to launch a small probe that contained a nuclear generator and something to melt some of the icy crust with. Then you could fuel up the plane with oxygen and burn methane in the atmosphere for propulsion in an internal combustion engine. From there the plane could fly around taking samples of the air, examining rocks, and even touch down in the ocean.

It would be a nice idea if someone would pursue it.

Palomar · 2004-01-08 21:44:33

Sorry, Cindy, but Huygens will only give us 1 and a half hours at best of images of Titan. That's alloting for a long 45 minutes in the atmosphere descending and the probe operating for 15 minutes longer than excpected. It only has 90 minutes of battery power, so whatever it's going to do it needs to do fast.

*Thanks for verifying this information, Mad Grad. I guess the kid in me sometimes (and somehow) optimistically wants to assume these things last for months and months. When Shaun brought up the specific issue, I was hoping his estimates were wrong.

Sorry for the delay in responding; I kept remembering then the Spirit stuff, then more Spirit information...aarrrgh.

--Cindy

Mark · 2004-01-08 22:50:47

If they are to find something interesting there, or something that requires more study via another, more advanced probe, there's no doubt they'll send one, but really, it's one hell of a treck. Sending something to Mars pales in comparisson to sending something to Titan, it's just that much further.

Mad Grad Student · 2004-01-10 18:36:24

*Thanks for verifying this information, Mad Grad. I guess the kid in me sometimes (and somehow) optimistically wants to assume these things last for months and months.

Yes, don't we all want things to keep on running. It's unfortuante that Huygens won't work for very long, instead it will rival the Venera landers in time operating. What's really the problem is that cheapo solar pannels just won't work in the outer solar system, so everything has to be nuclear, driving cost up.

Still, I (Or we) can dream, right?

Palomar · 2004-01-31 12:09:40

[=http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=11713]NASA Cassini Significant Events for 1/04

*Ties in with another little item:

[http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/i … uygens.cfm]Huygens Probe Instruments

--Cindy

P.S.: Mad Grad Student: You asked in "Free Chat" what my ID means. It's French for "crush the infamous" - a phrase Voltaire used quite often relating to fighting censorship, oppression, injustice, torture, etc. Voltaire was a great humanitarian.

Shaun Barrett · 2004-02-01 06:32:38

Nice link to Huygens' instruments. Thanks Cindy!

Palomar · 2004-02-03 08:59:47

[=http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/titan_probes_040203.html]New Space.com article

*Some information is repeated from prior articles. However, check out the last section entitled "Vision mission" (I've quoted a good portion of it below):

"NASA has asked scientists to begin blueprinting visionary space missions, in the decade beyond 2012.

One of those flagship-class spacecraft under review is identified as the Titan Explorer. A follow-on Titan Explorer mission might include a mobile platform capable of obtaining samples and conducting a variety of experiments at multiple locations on the Saturnian moon.

The atmosphere and surface of Titan are inferred to be rich in organic materials and may, therefore, provide a natural environment for studying organic chemistry in ways unattainable in terrestrial laboratories.

Understanding the pathways of organic synthesis on Titan might yield important insights into the evolution of prebiotic chemistry that led to the origin of life on Earth."

*Also, interesting links to the right of the article include "Earth vs Titan: How weather is alike -- and not;" also an image of Saturn taken by Cassini on 9 November 2003.

Titan Titan, rah rah rah! :laugh:

I can't wait for return of info from Huygens!

--Cindy

remcook · 2004-02-03 09:44:00

I hate to sound pessimistic, but if we're having a manned Mars/Moon mission/base, I doubt there will be much funding for a Titan mission.

I just love Titan and I too can't wait for the Huygens data. But also the Cassini Radar images. Titan's surface is completely unexplored!

Palomar · 2004-02-03 10:07:05

I hate to sound pessimistic, but if we're having a manned Mars/Moon mission/base, I doubt there will be much funding for a Titan mission.

*Remcook, the future mission(s) to Titan mentioned in the article won't be manned. There are no manned missions to Titan even being considered at this point.

--Cindy

remcook · 2004-02-03 10:15:23

that was not what I was aiming at...

there has to be money for a titan mission, even if it's unmanned.

Arccos · 2004-02-04 05:40:47

Also there are difficulties to fund missions like Europa Orbiter or Europa Lander (submarine ). And I think Europa is more interesting and of more importance.
So, alas, Titan must wait. If we only had more funds for space exploration!

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#1 2003-12-09 10:43:07

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#2 2003-12-10 00:04:55

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#3 2003-12-10 09:06:01

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#4 2003-12-10 16:54:51

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#5 2003-12-10 20:33:01

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#6 2003-12-11 10:11:35

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#7 2003-12-27 08:12:29

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#8 2003-12-27 20:00:25

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#9 2003-12-28 07:22:35

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#10 2003-12-28 22:23:17

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#11 2003-12-28 22:31:53

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#12 2003-12-29 01:45:10

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#13 2003-12-29 02:46:51

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#14 2004-01-03 06:19:26

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#15 2004-01-04 18:33:07

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#16 2004-01-08 21:44:33

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#17 2004-01-08 22:50:47

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#18 2004-01-10 18:36:24

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#19 2004-01-31 12:09:40

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#20 2004-02-01 06:32:38

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#21 2004-02-03 08:59:47

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#22 2004-02-03 09:44:00

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#23 2004-02-03 10:07:05

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#24 2004-02-03 10:15:23

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

#25 2004-02-04 05:40:47

Re: Huygens Probe to Titan

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