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This topic is inspired by a post containing text provided by GW Johnson.
That post appeared in a topic about using water to achieve propulsion.
If the source material is not monatomic, then most of the chemistry I ever saw says it will dissociate into radicals, before you can ever actually ionize it in the sense of stripping-fully-loose any electrons. There is a dissociation energy input associated with that. Most of the stuff in high school chemistry dissociated only with lots of heat from a Bunsen burner flame, so that's another relatively-high energy input requirement.
And then there's the actual ionization energy requirement, to fully strip loose those electrons. Some are higher than others in the list we saw last night, but I honestly do not know how those energies compare to the energy requirements for dissociation and vaporization. However, since the most common electric thrusters use monatomic gas sources that have no vaporization or dissociation energies, I suspect those other energies might be every bit as "significant" as the ionization energies.
And then there's the applied electricity energy to accelerate those particles to high speeds out of the thruster. It's a momentum thing, you can get higher speeds out of lighter particles for a given electric power output, but whether high speed/lightweight, or lower speed/heavyweight, it's still the same momentum (and therefore the same thrust) for a given power input. So the atomic weight of the individual particles may not matter so very much.
It would be very interesting indeed to see a list of candidate materials with all those energies included and then summed, not just the ionization energies. But scientists don't think that way when they publish, only engineers do. I cannot do that, I don't have the right background of experiences to sort out what we need, to compile such a list. The person who does that really needs to know what he is doing. That would be some engineer at one of the electric thruster manufacturers.
The purpose of ** this ** topic is to collect links to resources and text about design, construction and deployment of a Solar System exploration vessel that could operate anywhere, by using solar energy to accelerate ions from whatever material is found.
The contents of this topic will necessarily be technical.
It is my hope that a future reader will be able to build a working system and deploy it for missions lasting hundreds of thousands of years.
The mission of such a system would be to visit every object in the Solar System, in order to catalog every object, and to install identification beacons on every object large enough to pose a threat to humans.
In this scenario, solar power would be used to prepare atoms for acceleration, and any material found could be accelerated.
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This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members over time.
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Due to the scope of the topic, I decided to open with a link to the Wikipedia article on the abundance of elements:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance … l_elements
This article appears to be about the abundance of elements in the Universe, and not necessarily about the abundance of the elements in the Solar System. The scope of this topic is necessarily limited to exploration of the Solar System, and not regions beyond.
In thinking about how an ion drive vessel would deal with gravity wells, the limits of thrust available are such that the vessel cannot lift off from a body the size of the Moon without the assistance of an external (or non-ion) force.
If the vessel can be given sufficient velocity to skim just above the surface of a body such as the Moon, then it can gradually accelerate using the ion drive.
Invitation to kbd512: The above concept sounds a lot like your vision of a vessel spiraling out from LEO through the Van Allen Belt to eventually escape from Earth. If this variation is of interest, please explore how it might be adapted for mining from the surface of the Moon. What I am thinking about is using solar power to provide the energy to climb out of the gravity well, after the initial boost, which might be provided by a mass driver of the kind already deployed on the US Gerald R. Ford.
Update: The Wikipedia article at the link above is about the Universe (and the Sun) and Earth.
The article shows the differences in abundance between even number nuclei and odd numbered ones.
It will be necessary to look further, to discover the abundance of elements that might be used for a Universal Ion Drive exploring and cataloging the Solar System.
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I asked ChatGPT4o to look for locations likely to be accessible to an ion drive vessel, and to show the elements likely to be available.
Here's the BBCode-formatted report for your forum, summarizing the accessible celestial objects and the elements likely to be available for use as propellant.
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**
Accessible Celestial Objects and Available Elements for Ion Propulsion
**
Ion-drive spacecraft require low-gravity environments to operate efficiently. This report identifies regions in the Solar System where an ion-powered vessel can maneuver freely and explores the likely elements available for resource utilization.
**
1. Criteria for Accessibility
**
To ensure an object is accessible, we consider its **escape velocity** relative to the capabilities of an ion drive.
- **Preferred escape velocity:** Less than **1 km/s**, ideally much lower.
- **Ion drive benchmark:** The Dawn spacecraft had a **delta-V of ~10 km/s**, meaning small objects with escape velocities **<100 m/s** are easily reachable.**
2. Solar System Regions with Accessible Objects
**
**Asteroid Belt (2-3 AU from the Sun)**
**Near-Earth Asteroids (NEAs) and Trojans (Earth & Jupiter Lagrange Points)**
**Kuiper Belt (30-55 AU)**
**Oort Cloud (>1000 AU, estimated)
**
**
3. Notable Accessible Objects and Their Escape Velocities
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**Small Near-Earth Asteroids** – Escape velocity: **<50 m/s**
**C-type Asteroids (Carbonaceous, rich in volatiles & organics)**
**M-type Asteroids (Metal-rich, potential fuel sources like Nickel & Iron)**
**S-type Asteroids (Silicate-heavy, some metal content)**
**Comet-like Kuiper Belt Objects (Icy, with frozen volatiles like Methane, Ammonia, Water Ice)**
**Oort Cloud Objects (Predominantly icy, low escape velocity ~10-100 m/s)**
Larger objects like **Ceres (~0.51 km/s escape velocity)** and **Vesta (~0.36 km/s)** could be visited, but prolonged thrusting would be required to depart from them. Smaller asteroids and KBOs are much easier for ion-driven spacecraft to access.
**
4. Elements Likely Available in Each Region
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**Asteroid Belt & Near-Earth Asteroids (NEAs)**
**Carbon (C)** – From carbonaceous (C-type) asteroids
**Oxygen (O)** – Found in oxides and water ice
**Hydrogen (H)** – In hydrated minerals and some volatiles
**Iron (Fe), Nickel (Ni), Cobalt (Co)** – Found in M-type and S-type asteroids
**Magnesium (Mg), Silicon (Si), Aluminum (Al), Sulfur (S)** – Common in silicate-rich S-type asteroids
**Kuiper Belt & Oort Cloud Objects**
**Hydrogen (H), Oxygen (O), Carbon (C), Nitrogen (N)** – Found in water ice (H₂O), methane (CH₄), ammonia (NH₃), and carbon dioxide (CO₂)
**Volatile compounds** – Including hydrocarbons that could be converted into fuel
**Metallic Asteroids (M-type, Found in Asteroid Belt & NEAs)**
**Iron (Fe), Nickel (Ni), Cobalt (Co)** – Potential propellant sources or reaction mass
**Rare metals (Platinum Group, Iridium, etc.)** – Useful for catalysis in propulsion systems
**
5. Potential Propellant Sources
**
**Xenon (Xe)** – Ideal for ion drives, but rare in space
**Argon (Ar)** – Found in trace amounts in comets and atmospheres
**Hydrogen (H) & Oxygen (O)** – Potentially usable if an alternative ion drive can ionize water-derived elements
**Metals (Fe, Ni, Mg, Al)** – Possible for electromagnetic or electrostatic propulsion
**Methane (CH₄) & Ammonia (NH₃)** – Possible plasma propulsion candidates
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6. Next Steps for Analysis
**
Further refinements could include:
Identifying specific objects with high concentrations of Xenon, Argon, or other ion-drive-compatible elements
Assessing in-situ resource utilization (ISRU) methods for converting these materials into usable propellants
Evaluating alternative plasma or electromagnetic propulsion techniques for utilizing metals or hydrocarbons
This report provides an initial framework for selecting resource-rich locations in space for ion-drive propulsion. Future refinements will focus on practical extraction and conversion methods.
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As a follow up to Post #4...
My hope is that this topic will provide a flow that will lead to development, construction, launch and operation of deep space exploration vessels able to operate without resupply from Earth for many years. The size of the volume of space to be studied/inventoried is significant, so a large number of vessels of this type will be needed to complete the task.
In addition to being capable, the deep space vessel of this topic needs to be easy to replicate.
Supporting systems would include data collection and storage facilities. At present, all such facilities are on Earth (as far as I know).
The task of survey/inventory of the entire Solar System will require facilities outside/away-from Earth.
it seems to me the Moon is a reasonable choice for equipment able to receive data from all directions and to hold it securely.
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The article at the link below includes mention of a satellite design that would (if successful) capture air in Very Low Earth Orbit, Ionize the material, and propel the satellite with an ion drive.
The article describes a number of alternative designs as well.
The theme of the article is the potential use of VLEO.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2025 … c_team=crm
The above is very long URL so I hope it works ....
Update later: I have vague memories of someone in the forum discussing this very idea, in another context.
I think the idea is still theoretical, but it would involve a large scoop at the front of the satellite to collect atoms of atmosphere. These would be processed (somehow) to turn them into ions, and those would be ejected at high velocity. The satellites would be slim to reduce air resistance (except for the scoop) and they would have solar panels along the sides.
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