Interworld Para Terraforming

Void · 2024-08-26 08:11:13

I want to start this specifically for "Interworld Para Terraforming".

There already is a contest between the Vision Type of Elon Musk and the Vision Type of Jeff Bezos. For some time, I have been moving towards this, this is Jeff Bezos for the Moon, Mars, Venus, and other worlds. It is not anti-planetary, rather it is something like nomads on Earth who might not really have been connected to one planetary location. In this the nomads would not be connected to any one world but are the result of the connections to many worlds. Although I say nomad, in reality cities in orbit might also host permanent residents, and people who do "Nomad".

In many cases these orbital cities might connect to settlements on various worlds, and sometimes the settlements would have significant humans but very often they might be more for Robots.

Here is a post from a topic for the Moon: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 71#p226071

And of course, we are likely getting into space station technology, which currently is emerging around the Earth, but where there may be be small starts for the Moon.

Vast Space is the most Intersolar of the visions that I know of: https://www.vastspace.com/

The moderators can of course give instructions to modifications if they may like to.

Done

Here is a reference to a device which I think might disserve some attention: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 55#p226055

This is more or less a Solid Rocket Booster, which might be made of "Native" raw materials from places like the Moon, or Olympus Mons on Mars.

This would be more like a solid rocket booster, but the philosophy for it would be different. It would not be a booster for anything but itself.
Its remainder after use would be the product delivered to an orbit. It would be likely to operate in a gravity field of that of Mars or less. So possibly Mercury in the far future.

The desire is that they be mass produced by a robotics factory, and the preference is low-cost materials, but "Good Enough" quality materials.

A possible type of materials for propellants might be Oxygen Ice impregnated with very fine Aluminum Powders, and with a "Pinch" of water ice or Hydrocarbon. (It will need proving).

These may be possible to build in robot factories on the Moon, Mars, and Mercury perhaps, but not necessarily only those worlds.

A target of sending would be orbital worlds constructed in part from these materials.

The device is intended to replace the need for Mass Drivers, and Skyhooks, but it also could be made to work with those devices also perhaps.

The use of metamorphosis may also be involved. For instance, a Lunar Orbital Space Station, might receive these and use them as build materials to create devices that could Aerobrake into the atmosphere of Venus, to either orbit Venus or to supply cloud cities.

Floating cloud cities primarily of automation and robots may then provide the materials to orbit, of Venus of Ammonia, Hydrocarbons, and Heavy Water. Cities orbiting Venus may in part convert some of that to woody organic products. So, an organic chemistry that could be sent to our Moon and the orbital habitats/factories of it. It may turn out to be quite hard to have spacecraft that can tolerate the acid of Venus, but I am supposing that it will be a solvable problem.

Methods to transfer cargo could include Mass Drivers, that expel magnetic dust, or Oxygen. Chemical Rockets of course. Neumann Drives (If they can be scaled up in size), Solar driven propulsions, Spin Launch Methods in orbit, and many others.

As I see it if it is possible to send heavy materials to orbit Venus and also to extract organics from Venus, then it may be that the orbits of Venus would be a nice place for humans to live, and so there could be a large amount of habitation there for humans.

Of course, some of the heavy materials might come from asteroids as well, not just the Moon.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-26 09:05:14)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-26 09:34:24

This post is intended to hold an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members over time.

(th)

Void · 2024-08-26 10:21:44

An alternative to cloud cities to capture products could be to try to "Snatch" them from orbit.

This article does not seem to have much for Venus, but still, some of the ideas could apply: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_mining
Quote:

Aerostats
An aerostat would be a buoyant station in the atmosphere that gathers and stores gases. A vehicle would transfer the gases from the aerostat to an orbital station above the planet.[1]
Scoopers
A scooper would be a vehicle that gathers and transfers gases from the atmosphere to an orbital station.[1]
Skyhook
A Skyhook (structure) is similar to a space elevator, such a device would be used to pump gas to an orbital propellant depot.
Cruisers
A cruiser would be a vehicle in the atmosphere that gathers and stores gases. A smaller vehicle would transfer the gases from the cruiser to an orbital station.[1]

I tend to favor the Skyhook for "Snatching". For Venus the bow shock and other features of the upper atmosphere may be interesting.

The collision of the solar wind may offer Hydrogen, Helium from the solar wind, and whatever is present in the upper atmosphere of Venus.
I suspect that at least Oxygen would be there.

I think it may be propulsively possible to extract energy by "Soaring" to lift materials to orbit.

A new idea that might enter is salts, as China fond minerals that had strong hydration on the surface of the Moon. If we have Hydrogen from the solar wind or from dissociation of water and H2SO4, and also Oxygen which is levitated up by electrical forces we might condense produced water into salts in a scoop that might be on a Skyhook method. And of course I would like to capture Helium, Carbon, and Nitrogen as well.

If this could be done from orbit, then it might not be necessary to have cloud cities.

Then heavy materials from our Moon, asteroids, and eventually Mercury might be built into orbital habitats.

But if Cloud Cities are needed or even desired, that might be an option as well.

Done

Hydrated Salts China discovered: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/05/science/ … index.html
So, this suggests to me that it could be helpful in atmosperic mining by a "Snatch" method: Quote:

Researchers closely inspected samples collected by China’s Chang’e-5 probe, which landed on the lunar surface in 2020, and found a “prismatic, plate-like transparent crystal” – roughly the width of a human hair – that was in fact an “unknown lunar mineral” dubbed ULM-1, according to the study, which published July 16 in the journal Nature Astronomy.
The ULM-1 crystal (with the chemical formula (NH4)MgCl3·6H2O) are made up of roughly 41% water, with bits of ammonia that keep that H2O molecules stable despite wild temperature swings on the moon, according to the study.
This type of water could be a potential “resource for lunar habitation,” the scientists wrote in their study.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-26 10:41:21)

Void · 2024-08-27 10:51:25

I have previously tried to use the terms "Near Mars", and "Far Mars".

What this is supposed to mean is that orbits of Mars may be more accessible from a "Near Earth" than "Far Mars", (The surface of Mars is).

This only holds true for some things, as Mars Direct has a value of its own, as to most quickly find relative refuge on the surface of Mars.

In the case where you can refill in orbit of Mars, Near Mars is easier to travel from to Earth. But of course, Far Mars has a lot of raw materials to make resources from.

And so, for the Moon we could have a Near Moon in an orbit between the Earth and Moon, and then Far Moon on the Moon itself. Near Moon becomes much more attractive if robots can export resources from Far Moon to Near Moon.

Venus is a similar situation.

But in most cases the "Near" option works better with contributions of raw materials and resources from other locations.

But since Space Station technology is likely to be useful in nearly all instances of a "Near" place, then that is of great interest and will be evolving in orbit of Earth, and a little bit perhaps near the Moon.

And of course deflation of labor costs due to robotics should go hand in hand with the "Near" Space Stations.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-27 10:55:53)

Void · 2024-08-29 09:24:24

From: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 46#p226146

Isaac Arthur provided this today: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=WRVORC
Quote:
Gardens Of The Moon
YouTube
Isaac Arthur
37 views
2 hours ago
He talks about plants and the 2 week Lunar nights in many places on the Moon. He suggests a minimal red light use in the night to keep the plants alive.
It quickly occurred to me that experiments might be done using chemicals that can grow algae, mushrooms and yeast in the dark. That can certainly be likely to work for those life forms. For vascular garden crops though, it only keeps them alive. But if you have 2 weeks of light and chemicals and then two weeks of dark with chemicals, can some vascular plants grow in a productive way?
While a few spots on the Moon have almost eternal sunlight, minerals will be all over the place, and also the best place to launch Lunar products from would be the Equator.
This article seems assistive: https://newatlas.com/science/artificial … -grow-dark
Quote:
This could expand agriculture to areas that don’t get enough sunlight, and even help feed future space explorers.
He mentions the Nitrogen problem, and suggests that eventually Nitrogen could be obtained from the Outer Solar System.
Bennu apparently has Nitrogen, Carbon, and Hydrogen, organic chemicals. That may be easier to access.
https://news.arizona.edu/news/bennu-hol … -wet-world Quote:
The asteroid's dust is rich in carbon and nitrogen, as well as organic compounds, all of which are essential components for life as we know it.
And so then "Dark Comets" may be of great interest: https://www.space.com/earth-water-dark-comets-impacts
It is my opinion that we should expand into space in many directions at once rather than to focus on one situation which does not have a satisfactory distribution of assets in itself alone.
Going to continue this elsewhere: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 47#p226147
Done

This is the elsewhere mentioned at the end of the quote above.

The process of developing an object like Bennu, could feed resources to at least 4 worlds, Earth, Luna, Mars, Venus.

Valuable minerals to Earth.
Organics to the Moon.
Silicates/metals to Venus.
Whatever is need to Mars orbits.

In the case of delivery to Venus you could use air braking.
For delivery to Mars, you might use Ballistic Capture.
For Earth/Moon, whatever may work. Air braking to Earth for precious metals.

For the Moon, perhaps delivery to an orbital station.

People who work with robots on the Moon could be on Earth, perhaps in a space station near the Moon, perhaps in a base, on the Moon, and very rarely in spacesuits working physically.

So, this should limit the amount of volatile substances needed on the Moon itself.

So, we may very much like to work with Dark Comets, I think.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-29 09:59:16)

Void · 2024-09-01 12:10:47

Things may have cooled down a bit, and I have a little bit to post, and a convenience of time, so, with low pressure I will give it a try.

This is a long video about robotics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS8cyJizMos
Quote:

Breaking: Revolutionary 1X Neo Is Built For YOU
Dr. Know-it-all Knows it all
83K subscribers

Productivity to Consumption to Productivity to Consumption..........................

A single case of Consumption>Productivity or Productivity>Consumption, might have a needed ratio.

As far as productivity goes, if it has no market of consumption then it is a waste of effort and resources.

But if you do not have sufficient productivity then you will not have sufficiency for consumption.

If you enter into a environment where consumption is hard to satisfy, then you need a greater productivity.

Space environments probably can have amplified productivity if robots are in use.

----------------

Isaac Arthur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIe0cdOvaAU
Quote:

Stellar Nomads
Isaac Arthur
789K subscribers

I like much of what is in the video. The idea of a cycler for the Moon is interesting.

I will leave it at that, I don't want to struggle more than this today.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2024-09-01 12:24:56)

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#1 2024-08-26 08:11:13

Interworld Para Terraforming

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Re: Interworld Para Terraforming

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Re: Interworld Para Terraforming

#4 2024-08-27 10:51:25

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