New Mars Forums

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,121

Semi-Cycle Method (Partly inspired by Robert Dyck and others)

So, I recall that cyclers are not a fond topic, but tolerate this for a bit.  If it goes flat, we can delete this material.

I feel partly confident.  Am looking for the input of others.

The core of this would be a cycler that can park in orbit around Mars, using a Ballistic method of capture.

The purpose of the ship is to host travelers in more healthy environments than that of a Starship.

It would be in the "Large Ship Family" Maybe a cousin of it, but not intended to be the same as it, not entirely.
The thinking of Robert and others is highly valued for it.

This one would not have a heat shield.  To pin it to Mars, it only has to get into a Ballistic Capture mode.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_capture
It could be serviced and provisioned while orbiting Mars.

It would only fly by Earth, and normally not seek capture to the Earth/Moon.  It might use a gravity assist while flying by though.  I do not know when or how that is of value.

The ship could have its own propulsion method.  I can say, anything that works well.  Perhaps something that can be refilled at Mars.

It is expected that more people will do Earth>Mars than Mars>Earth.  So, you don't need as many (Starships or the alternatives) to take them from the cycler to Earth or Moon.

The Cycler is intended to have at least Synthetic Gravity, Radiation Shielding, Full Water recycling, CO2 recycling, and perhaps even poo to food abilities Yum-Yum!

Starships from Earth could hang out with it during the trip to Mars.  If stationed in front of it, they might even provide additional shielding during a solar storm.  Not sure that should be needed.

But if we have a chance to offload some of the Ships of cargo and humans, might it be possible to send them back to Earth early?
It is possible that the Cycler would have a propellants Depot associated with it, one that was filled on the last pinning to Martian orbit.

Yes, there is a danger of a Starship having a failure upon seeking to get from Earth to the Cycler.  But that is also true for trying to get from Earth to Mars.

I do have a trial balloon to try to increase the potential to salvage from such a mishap.  If you have two starships, you can travel them to together in parallel, and if one fails for something like life support you might have a chance to move the other people into the working one.

But I like to think about putting two starships nose to nose and firing them one at a time.  If the first one fails, you might dump all cargo, and use the second one to try to get either to the Cycler, or maybe even Earth.

As for arrival to Mars, you would have some starships with you, and there would probably be some ships around Mars as well.

Mars is perhaps to become an easier place to refill a depot associated with the semi-cycler from Mars and perhaps Phobos and Deimos.  Resource methods are not yet well defined.

So, I hope I have not upset anyone, but that is what I am thinking at this time.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-20 14:17:02)

---

Done.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,121

Re: Semi-Cycle Method (Partly inspired by Robert Dyck and others)

Let's say that it is not practical to get Oxygen, Carbon, or Hydrogen from the moons of Mars, at least not at the start.

If your Semi-Cycler has solar and/or nuclear power, you might tank it up with water, and CO2.  That is water ice and Dry Ice.

As a matter of fact, the Semi-Cycler could drop off its empty to orbit of Mars for a future refill but pick up a new filled one.

That is of course more shielding.

This makes the process less vulnerable to dust storms on Mars.  Water Ice and Dry Ice in container in the vicinity of Mars should not have much of a boil off problem.

This would allow a "Burn as you go" method if you wanted to use it.  That is, you would make your propellants and burn it at convenience.  The orbital solar will be much more reliable than Martian surface solar.  But that is not a mandated method.  You might have tanks as well that you filled and then paid the price to actively cool, so that you could do a long burn at some point.

I am open to pretty much all propulsion methods.  We also have photon sail and solar wind propulsions.  But those need more development.

I think it might be an OK way to go.

As for filling the starships along the way, maybe you could I don't know how full they would need to be to depart from the Semi-Cycler and then hit the Earth's atmosphere appropriately during a gravitational assist flyby.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-20 14:40:50)

---

Done.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,121

Re: Semi-Cycle Method (Partly inspired by Robert Dyck and others)

So, yes, I am willing to consider this form of the blending of Starships and their like with the modified cycler.

Done.

---

Done.

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,121

Re: Semi-Cycle Method (Partly inspired by Robert Dyck and others)

So, I will go a little further with this.  Ballistic Capture to Mars can be done without a heat shield.  So, while Mars/Phobos/Deimos can contribute materials, there also exists the possibility to send freight from the Earth/Moon by robotic electric rocket. Or perhaps a Photon or Solar Wind propulsion.

So, very materially rich, and not so susceptible to Martian dust storms.

Where the Semi cycler can be pinned into the Martian gravity well using ballistic capture, then it can be refurbished with parts sent from Earth.  Automated propellant depots could be supplied Water, Dry Ice, Hydrogen, Methane, Oxygen, as desired.  Probably Oxygen and maybe Carbon can come from the moons.  If the moons don't have Hydrogen of some kind, that can be gotten from Mars.

So, when refurbished, it could head back to Earth with a smaller amount of people than it brought to Mars/Phobos/Deimos.
I suppose it "Unpins" itself using chemical propulsion, and if unhooking in the proper part of its orbit of Mars it will head inwards towards the sun.  The pulsed "Burn As You Go" method may be interesting for this.  So, you would have large tanks of water ice, and dry ice, and smaller tanks you might fill with Oxygen and Methane.  The small tanks could be drained periodically to modify the orbit and to attempt a flyby of Earth or Venus.

I guess it would be attempted for Starships or the equivalent to match into a convergence with the Semi-Cycler.  Perhaps they would start in an elongated elliptical orbit of Earth, and then use rockets to converge and perhaps connect.  Then the assembly would disgorge the Starships that were to return to Earth.  Then the assembly would do an Oberth burn around the Earth, (Or Venus), and head back to Mars.

A variety of supplemental propulsion methods might be available for the trip from Earth to Mars, or Venus to Mars.

I think that it should be possible to do a Ballistic Capture from Venus to Earth.  That suggests that Venus might be connected into the network.

For Venus to Mars or Venus to Earth, I suspect that nuclear fission might be OK.  But I would be shy about a ship from Mars, doing a gravitational swing around of Earth.

So, to use this system to link Venus and Earth, Earth/Moon might supply water ice, perhaps from the Moon.  So maybe Hydro Lox would be used.  But we don't know that Carbon could not be had.  Perhaps it could be gotten from the Earth itself, Mars/Phobos/Deimos, and perhaps Asteroids.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-01-21 12:35:46)

---

Done.