New Mars Forums

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

This new topic is created in honor of a vision of SpaceNut, as revealed in another topic about Natural Fuel

Years ago on Earth, it was quite common for homesteads to be self-sufficient.

The families who set up shop in the wilderness were able to raise most of their own food, provide for construction and heating using locally sourced wood supply, and trade with townspeople for the few finished goods or specialty foods they could not make for themselves.

With the advance of industrialization, and lately with the advance of globalization, the advantages of Specialization and Division of Labor have overwhelmed the early self-sufficient household concept.

Few human children, exposed to the enormous wealth, abundance and opportunity of the industrial age have chosen to return to a primitive living style.

A few cultures promote a simpler life style, but close inspection reveals they do not disdain modern ideas.

In any case, ** this ** topic is set up for SpaceNut and friends to define a self-sufficient homestead able to grow plants to make high quality heating oil for heating and for machinery, including for production of electricity to operate modern appliances and computer systems.

This is ** not ** a topic for primitive living.  It is instead a topic for development of advanced technology to sustain a household with nothing but sunlight as an energy source.

Wind energy has sunlight as a prime mover.

I am very much looking forward to seeing how SpaceNut and friends develop this topic.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

This topic started out with a simple objective ... to develop a plan to deliver vegetable derived home heating oil to a single household, sufficient to provide warmth for a heating season and to provide a budget for a supplemental supply of electrical power in case utility power is lost.

On the ** other ** hand, it was not so long ago that ** all ** farms were self supporting, by drawing wood from local forests and growing crops to feed the animals and people dependent upon the farm, with a bit of produce left over to trade with townspeople for a few specialized items like glass windows and iron tools.  In that respect, your vision may be achievable, if the specialized processed needed to make useful fuel can be encapsulated in devices that the farm operator can purchase, just as such an operator purchases a tractor or combine today.
(th)

This is just what a plot is targeted to do for the My Hacienda topic for mars and yes once started it can grow into an industry where specialization of parts of it becomes the norm but on earth it's that separate but distinct reasons is why we have failed. The main reason is oil is easier and cheaper to that of brute force that farming needs. So are propane, natural gas ect for that energy need which include solar and water hydro power generation with nuclear in its own category. We as human pick the easy route on the path to life as we want our time for pleasure and rather than working hard to survive.
With that said going without has and is becoming the norm as abundance is a function of money resources rather than hard work.

If I understand your vision correctly, you will see a farm sustain itself completely with vegetable/plant derived fuels.

Again, it is my reading of your post that may be in error ... it would seem that your vision would require the farm operator to perform all the highly specialized operations that are required to prepare vegetable material/plant material for use as fuel.

On the ** other ** hand, it was not so long ago that ** all ** farms were self supporting, by drawing wood from local forests and growing crops to feed the animals and people dependent upon the farm, with a bit of produce left over to trade with townspeople for a few specialized items like glass windows and iron tools.  In that respect, your vision may be achievable, if the specialized processed needed to make useful fuel can be encapsulated in devices that the farm operator can purchase, just as such an operator purchases a tractor or combine today.

Because this topic is entitled "Business Opportunity", I'd like to (at least try to) return the focus to the elements that must be combined to achieve the desired delivery within a budget of $1,000,000 USD.

All the needed businesses already exist.  The challenge is for the contracts to be written to achieve the desired objective.

The farms exist now, capable of producing whatever vegetable/plant material that is needed to serve the customer.

The chemical plants exist today, to convert vegetable/plant material to high quality biodiesel equivalent suitable for reliable use in an oil burning furnace, as well as to supply a small diesel motor for auxiliary power if needed.

Delivery services exist today.

Architecture design firms exist today, to design the storage facility for the fuel to be stored for a winter's heating.

Construction firms exist today to complete construction as needed.

Heating companies exist today to install or update equipment to work with the planned fuel supply.

Electrician specialty houses exist today to complete design and installation of control systems.  I'm thinking here in particular of the specialized circuitry needed to detect a power outage, to start the backup generator, and to manage operation until utility power returns.
(th)

Current scale of separate actions is not really giving the results of creation of these fuels and while once its processed from organic to a sort of crude for inputting into distillation it's not getting the desired action of creation. So, a beginning might just be the looking at how to turn back the hands of time. We know that farming was crew hands intensive to achieve the ability to be self-sufficient and with equipment that has lessened.

What we need for the in between items are the means to create the crude to put into the distillery in grinding and compressing and fermenting equipment. That are things required by Beerman's operations.

Specializations that are needed to support the management function include:

<> Attorney (most likely a firm with coverage of all the regions involved, from farm through processing to customer site)
<> Financial Team - Budget management, accounting, tax preparation/oversight

The most important member of this entire project: The Customer!

(th)

The closing is for sure required for any business so you the creator is protected from those that want to take the IP and the physical property from you.

.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

So not wanting in the industrial construction and concept of speacilization.

first up is location of growing season.

Length of Growing Period (LGP), in Days

next up is the crop topic which contains the food germination a length to harvest.

we already gotten the data for conversion of them to oils or other fuel types and even the secondary power requirement with a generator.
What we do not have is the equipment fuel amounts to plant and harvest or to process them into the fuel we are desiring.

Last up is the quantity needed in the local changes the size of the planted crop coupled with conversion that completes the equation for this purpose.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

A growing season limits the area to the east side of the Mississippi River.

Of course, you end up with the extremes of nearly no heat requirement or needing lots some years.

we also know that you need crop storage while harvesting and processing it and that takes time and hopefully, we have enough of it before needing that first drop to keep the homestead warm.

A secondary generator is the simple part to making use of the fuel.

Equipment needs for processing and for the farming are to do items.

Storage for the processed fuel is the easy part to this equation.

One might assume that the first year is less about growing since your building will take the better part of a year to get done mostly depending on land use regulations and setting aside the farmhouse to be able to make use of the production start the following year.

Time to look at the costs for equipment since a farming location and homestead structure will probably be close to 1/2 of that million.
That leaves the distillery to make use of the other half of the funding.

Production then is a slow pay back if the normal cost of fuel would be one the low side of possibly 250 gallons versus maybe 2000 gallons at the coldest locational use.

Of course, the farm equipment and generators all want to work on these same fuels that we are creating. Probably not even 100 gallons would be used worst case for any area of the eastern US, but I have not a clue for the farming equipment types or fuel allotment needed for each yearly use.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Re: Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

For SpaceNut re new Farm topic and line about Mississippi River ...

Best wishes for success with your new topic! 

You've posted a line about the east side of the Mississippi River several times recently, so I asked Google what that was about.

Google came back with a link to an article about Mississippi (the State) that appears to have been prepared for a public school audience:

https://www.cleveland.k12.ms.us/site/ha … Name=1.pdf

The article seems (to me at least) to provide a comprehensive look at the region.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

Since I am not a farmer and have only done small garden, this is about my level of knowledge.

So, let's start with the equipment that runs on the Deisel substitute.

Diesel Equipment is Vital to the Agricultural Sector

Diesel engines power about 75% of all farm equipment, transport 90% of farm products, and pump about 20% of agriculture’s irrigation water in the United States. Ninety-six percent of the large trucks that move agricultural commodities to railheads and warehouses are powered by a diesel engine. Diesel powers 100% of the freight locomotives and inland barge and towboat marine vessels that transport bulk harvested crops such as corn and grain to processing facilities.

In the agricultural sector, there is no cost-effective substitute for diesel engines with the same combination of energy efficiency, power, and performance. Diesel dominates the entire "farm supply chain" - planting the product, tending the crop (watering, fertilizers, and pesticides), harvesting the product, and bringing the product to market. That happens by truck, rail or ship. Farm tractors, combines, irrigation pumps and other equipment are essential tools in an industry vital to our national economy and quality of life.

So, desire meets goal of creation.

What makes a good farm diesel tank?

From tractors to trucks, most farm equipment runs on diesel fuel. Your ability to arrange prompt delivery and wholesale fueling when you need it is critical to your bottom line.

Farm diesel tanks need to be robust. They have to be able to contain diesel fuel while at the same time withstanding a wide range of weather conditions such as rain, hail, snow, and subzero temperatures. It’s not surprising they have a limited lifespan. Fortunately, at Shipley Energy, we sell farm diesel tanks and provide onsite installation.

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Frequently Asked Energy Procurement Questions: Your Energy Procurement FAQ Guide

so what is the equipment that one needs?

25 different pieces that you will need Necessary Farming Tools and Equipment for a Farmer

What amount of fuel do we need to have on hand to use for the farm equipment?

a-farmers-guide-to-buying-bulk-diesel-fuel

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT TRANSPORTING DIESEL

Understanding Diesel Fuel Storage Requirements

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Re: Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

For SpaceNut re new Farm topic ....

The direction you appear to be headed with this topic ** should ** be of interest to a few American farmers.

The cost of fossil derived diesel fuel must be subtracted from the earnings of a farm.

The cost of equipment to convert locally grown vegetable/plant material would be recovered over time, as the amount allocated to fossil fuels decreases.

Please continue developing your ideas.  They ** should ** be of interest to forward looking American farmers, and should therefore be of interest to Farming magazines.  The way we (forum) might approach this is to invite writers/reporters for one or more farm journals (there may even be a magazine by that name) to work with the material you are collecting, to produce an article for a real magazine.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Re: Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

For SpaceNut re new Farm topic ....

By coincidence, this topic showed up in the Bing feed just now ...

It is a report/interview with Bill Gates about his farm holdings ...

Here is a potential customer for your all-vegetable-fuel idea.

Bill Gates Asked Why He's Buying So Much US Farmland: Here's His Answer In Free-For-All AMA
Story by AJ Fabino • 5h ago
142 Comments

Microsoft founder and billionaire turned philanthropist Bill Gates laid to rest the long-time conspiracy theory that he owns some 80% of all U.S. farmland earlier this week in his 11th appearance in an “Ask Me Anything” (AMA) session on Reddit.

Bill Gates Asked Why He's Buying So Much US Farmland: Here's His Answer In Free-For-All AMA
© Provided by Benzinga

What Happened: Gates, answering dozens of questions over the course of a few hours during the AMA, including: “Why are you buying up so much farmland, do you think this is a problem with billionaire wealth and how much you can disproportionally [sic] acquire?”

In response, he said, “I own less than 1/4000 of the farmland in the US. I have invested in these farms to make them more productive and create more jobs. There isn't some grand scheme involved - in fact all these decisions are made by a professional investment team.”

Conspiracy theorists claimed last year that the Microsoft founder was buying up farmland in the U.S. in order to starve Americans for an unknown reason, Snopes said, after researchers said in April that the world was facing a potential food shortage as a result of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

According to a 2022 report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the National Agriculture Statistics Service, there are 895,300,000 acres of farmland in the U.S.

Gates owns roughly 242,000 acres, amounting to about 0.03% of the total.

To put it into perspective, if all of Gates’ land was in one place, it would cover about 25% of Rhode Island.

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Farm Self Sufficient using Natural Fuel from Solar/Wind Power

When talking about land and being arid one might wonder if some of that land needs to be shaded to aid in the crop growth under what might be used. Of course that seems to also be the best place to make use of excess eat as well as for sand batteries and more.

Letters to the Editor: Should more desert farmland in California be used for solar?

This might be part of an answer for those things of growing a crop to turn into a fuel.

For those not familiar with the challenges we face on a warming planet, Roth has provided up close and personal perspectives about farmers losing water and crops, cities growing despite diminishing resources, and the folly of those who promised Colorado River water to everyone without understanding the consequences.

Cooling the land would mean less water being lost and a better condition for the plants to grow.

Of course a solar built panel building would allow for a greenhouse enclosure that would lengthen the growing season but would mean designing for a different purpose as you would want to explore hydroponics and trays for the plant rather than soils as farm would normally do.

Something like these might be the direction of build.

sort of a traditional

Could work as well