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#26 2023-01-08 20:37:06

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,143

Re: Pond Life to be Created on Mars by Humans - NO ICE

For SpaceNut re #25

Thank you for providing the salinity of sea water on Earth.  I'm sure that figure varies depending upon where a sample is taken, but that figure seems helpful for planning ahead to meet the needs of plants acclimatized to life in the ocean.

SearchTerm:salinity of Earth's oceans see Post #25

SearchTerm:Salt saltiness salinity of Earth's oceans

Also for SpaceNut .... It seems natural to give up before even starting.  Line one of post #25 seems to suggest that there is no point in trying to achieve an equivalent salinity and water temperature on Mars, so let's just give up before we start.

A successful implementation of this topic will achieve a near exact duplication of the sea water environment enjoyed by sea grass on Earth.

Instead of giving up before starting, the expedition/equipment designers will simply size the auxilliary heating equipment to meet the needs of the pond.

In reading your posts in the geothermal topic, I noticed your mention of heat collecting pipes along the sun facing side of the house in winter.

It seems to me that something like that would work to help to keep the pond water temperature within the desired range of 0 degrees Celsius to 10 Degrees Celsius.  The water could be pumped through black pipes arranged to soak up solar energy during the day, and on to underground storage tankage from which it would be pulled at night.  In this scenario, the water could be drained from the pipes at night, to avoid their facilitating heat loss.

(th)

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#27 2023-01-08 21:16:59

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Pond Life to be Created on Mars by Humans - NO ICE

They are contained in a box with glaze (glass) covered with insulated back for air.

Thermal drain back is to keep water from night freezing temperatures.
https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/S … larDHW.htm
https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/W … irLine.htm
https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/W … inBack.htm
https://www.builditsolar.com/References … HWKits.htm

Testing on conduction from the bottom layer is the question since that means we need to reduce that conduction as direct contact with the ground wicks energy in the water away is the but as these are values based on materials being used.

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#28 2023-09-16 18:27:30

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 9,774

Re: Pond Life to be Created on Mars by Humans - NO ICE

'Licancabur' might be the closest pond to Mars?

'NASA Astrobiologists to Study Extreme Life at Earth's Highest Lake'
https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/nasa … hest-lake/

Perhaps a risk in space exploration is that when humans allow their Ponds or Lakes on Earth to vanish and dry up they might be missing some extremophiles that would possibly one day thrive on Mars.

Maybe more accurate answers will arrive with the MSR mission

Ponds might need slat and chemical removal, more diverse life will be found in Lake systems not ponds these can be examined for example of Salt Lake on Earth there is Little Manitou Lake in the Canadian province of Saskatchewan, and Lake Elton in Russia, near the border with Kazakhstan, Lake Retba or known as Lac Rose in Senegal Africa, Hamelin Pool Marine Nature Reserve in Australia, the Dead Sea a salt lake bordered by Jordan to the East and the West Bank and Israel to the West, the Great Salt part of the U.S. state of Utah Pikrolimni an endorheic, alkaline salt lake in Kilkis prefecture, Greece, some lakes lie under Glaciers and there are Lakes formed by Glacial retreat such as Tasman Lake, New Zealand. At high altitude some have dried up due to global warming and loss of glacial systems, some high altitude Lakes now considered extinct, there are Lakes such as Lake Licancbur between Bolivia and Chile, Sawtooth Lake - Idaho, Lake Waiau in Hawaii on Mauna Kea, there is Lac d'Allos is an alpine lake at a height of in Europe France, and Ojos del Salado in Argentina Chile. In the South Pole of Earth there are many Lakes under the ice,  the subglacial lake under a glacier, typically beneath an ice cap or ice sheet.

Salts and chemicals and toxin will restrict what life can exist inside the Biodome pond or Lake, life perhaps can exist on the Toxic Lakes, Salts, the 'Dead' Waters and Sea and Lakes of Earth there is often extreme life and seen with the naked eye are brine shrimp, phytoplankton, brine flies, plants and birds, on Earth certain plant and animal will be more able to take difficult changing conditions, Glassworts and cordgrass are often the first plants to take hold in a mudflat, the waters might be more stagnant without the Moon of Earth to regulate the tides it might be considered a toxic soup, this is perhaps where the fish tank science comes in where they can fix bad water with filters and submerged oxygenaotrs, giving your water inside your Biosphere a good clean out . For now the closest Analogy people think of is Earth but a cold radioactive world, with a year long winter, dim sunlight and harsh like the South Pole, thin and nothing to keep a man alive, not like the Air even higher than Mount Everest even more hostile and then dust storms like at the driest desserts but with a thin layer of electrically charged dust thinner than cigarette smoke

Adaptation of Temperate Seagrass to Arctic Light Relies on Seasonal Acclimatization of Carbon Capture and Metabolism
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34925400/

Plants of the Arctic and Antarctic
https://beyondpenguins.ehe.osu.edu/issu … -antarctic

Common eelgrass
https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/wildlife … n-eelgrass

Common eelgrass is a plant species (not a seaweed) that lives on the very low shore down to 10m deep and can form dense seagrass meadows. These meadows form important underwater habitats in shallow seas, providing shelter for many species, including seahorses and pipefish. They also provide important nursery habitats for small fish, cuttlefish, shellfish and rays. Seagrass beds grow on sandy seabeds in very shallow waters - as they need good levels of light to photosynthesise. They grow in sheltered areas, such as estuaries, bays and inlets. Seagrass is an important food source for many overwintering birds such as geese. Common Eelgrass gets its name from its long, eel-like leaves.

Fast-Growing Moss Is Turning Antarctica Green
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie … nvironment

The plants of Antarctica
https://oceanwide-expeditions.com/blog/ … antarctica

It seems an almost impossible feat for a plant to survive in Antarctica. Extremely cold temperatures, little sunlight and moisture, poor soil quality, and a short growing period have deterred most species of flora from successfully growing in this barren ecosystem. Despite the odds, there are still plants that have evolved specifically to live in these conditions, and have thrived where no others have dared to go.

It may not be a bountiful garden of polychromatic blossoms, but taking a closer look, a little bit closer to the ground, will provide a glimpse into a very special and unique world of plant life.

The farside mission, China’s Chang’e-4 mission tested animal life and went to grow plants on the Moon

Moon images
https://finance.sina.com.cn/tech/roll/2 … 8522.shtml

Decadal survey recommends massive funding increase for NASA biological and physical sciences
https://twitter.com/SpaceNews_Inc/statu … 7090437455


Humans are having trouble living near these Lakes on Earth, 'Historic drought turns Chilean lake into a desert'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q1pqfIbr8U

an artistically shot video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SibAMQN30c4


Humans will have a food delivery maybe

Food Rules at the South Pole?

On Earth life can be more comfortable than Mars even on some of Earth's more difficult places.

Ultimately, there are no restrictions on what food can be brought to the research stations, aside from logistical ones. There’s not an option to refrigerate things thanks to the extremely long supply chain, so the food is always something that’s already frozen, something that can be frozen or something that can’t freeze. And at McMurdo’s two facilities on the Ross Ice Shelf, raw poultry isn’t allowed — they don’t want to risk any of the penguins catching Avian Flu.

https://www.2foodtrippers.com/food-in-antarctica/
All the food coming into McMurdo must be approved and inspected, as well.


but what if Robots go first


Some people want to see Russia's results, coming ever so slowly. At the South Pole on Planet Earth, Lake Vostok the sub glacial Lake a Russian team plans to eventually lower a probe into the lake to collect water samples and sediments from the bottom.

The Greenhouse Foods

Vegetable Farms ‘Mushrooming’ Across the Arctic
https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/vegeta … oss-arctic

Vegetable production seems to be on the rise in the Arctic. Greenhouses and hydroponic systems are beacons of hope for the improvement of food security and health issues, and a diversification of the economy in remote Arctic communities.

Vegetable production seems to be on the rise in the Arctic. Greenhouses and hydroponic systems are beacons of hope for the improvement of food security and health issues, and a diversification of the economy in remote Arctic communities. "Being persistent is the key to grow food in the Arctic," believes Benjamin Vidmar, founder of ‘Polar Permaculture’, a project set in Svalbard.

Despite difficult growing conditions, the number of vegetable farms in Alaska, Norway, Canada and other Arctic regions appears to have increased. The hope is that a better, more affordable supply of vegetables in Arctic communities will help battle public health issues, improve food security and decrease the economy’s dependence on oil.

Arctic Agriculture: Producing More Food in the North
https://deeply.thenewhumanitarian.org/a … -the-north

Norway and other Arctic countries can boost land-based food production – and meet the challenges of climate change – with the right support and investment, writes Arne Bardalen of the Norwegian Institute of Bioeconomy Research.

Another topic

'Building Soil with Salt Marshes'

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5474

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-09-17 09:14:47)

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