Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-12 07:26:38

Cavers are needed for Mars, Titan, the Moon, Europa. Sometimes categorized as an "extreme sport", some are also mountain climbers or swimmers, others enjoy canyoning, deep sea diving, outdoor exploring and mine and abandoned building urban exploration. Perhaps a guy like Elon Musk won't like to hear this! and sometimes he gets things wrong or makes very stupid tweets for example in regards to the Tham Luang cave rescue. Speleology is the scientific study of caves and other karst features, they can study lifeforms inside caves, as well as their make-up, structure, physical properties, history, life biology, and the processes by which they form speleogenesis and change over time speleomorphology. Mammoth Cave 676 km or 420 miles near Brownsville, Kentucky, United States, Veryovkina Cave of Western Asia East Europe in the nation of Georgia, Lamprechtsofen of Austria, Gouffre Jean-Bernard of France, and the caves of Sistema Ox Bel Ha Mexico, Shuanghedong Cave Network China, Optymistychna Cave Ukraine, Sima de la Cornisa Spain, Hölloch Switzerland are some of the largest or longest and deepest in the world some have been classed as 'Biosphere Reserves' The term speleology is also sometimes applied to the recreational activity of exploring caves. Why does an amateur do this? I'm not sure. Maybe it is about exploration, going to find something new or finding a place mankind has never been. The new openings and virgin cave systems comprise some of the last unexplored regions on Earth. Caves can be dangerous places; you can get stuck the wrong way up and die, suffer hypothermia, get overwhelmed in an unstable cave trapped with by falling debris, slides of dust and mud, flooding, large falling rocks and simply just gas-out from physical exhaustion.

I did come across some old discussions on this topic

GW Johnson was smart enough to call out Musk's failed robo rescue idea
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8309

GW Johnson wrote:

While well-meaning, this submarine idea won't work, because it cannot possibly fit through the tight spots in the cave. If you have never been spelunking, you have no idea how tight these spots are.
GW

The other is a long locked thread which I can not quote from called 'You're a 1st Marsian Settler'

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1098

While a potholing search returned no hits.

Possible Mars Alien Troglobites could be found on Mars, we are not sure if Mars has life however things do live inside Caves on Earth, chemotrophic bacteria, some species of flatworms, glowworms, collembola, and blindfish.

Troglophiles on Earth are the cave lovers, the people of Mars might be 'Cave Lovers' living inside Lava Tubes, the cave loving creature can live part or all of their lives in caves, but can also complete a life cycle in appropriate environments on the surface. Examples include cave crickets, bats, millipedes, pseudo-scorpions, and spiders.

Scientists and archaeologists in studying underground ruins, tunnels, sewers and aqueducts also engage in a type of Cave Exploration. On planet earth the Trogloxenes are types of cave guests, the human on the Martian suface might become one who frequents caves, and may require caves for a portion of its life cycle, but must return to the surface or a parahypogean zone for at least some portion of its life. Hibernating reptiles and mammals are the most widely recognized examples. There are a class of accidental trogloxenes which are surface organisms that enter caves for no survival reason, they may even be troglophobes “cave haters” but got swept in by a landslide or flood, or alien non-cave creatures which cannot survive in caves for any extended period. Examples include mammals which fell through a sinkhole, frogs swept into a cave by a flood water.

Maybe we can talk about the possibility forever or should just write some Astrobiology Extremophile Paper?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-26 14:08:54)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-12 07:57:49

You will need to recycle waste or any material for re-use, a Mars Astronaut or Cosmonaut on Mars will not just ahve a suit but need light and power. It’ll be dark, thus, an appropriate headlamp or light source is essential. o other Martian colonist and description of where the new explorers plan to explore, maybe run a rope, wire or string Extra food and water. The word “caving” comes from the words “cavea” or “caverna,” which is Latin for cave. Potholing, on the other hand, originates from the exploration of potholes in northern England. After some time, the word “spelunker” was used as a term of someone who explores caves but lacks the necessary exploration techniques. In places, like New Zealand, they have caving as a tourist activity. It is possible inside the Mars Cave there might be an ancient Biosphere so in order to preserve and study this possible alien life nothing should be killed in the cave. Many caving skills overlap with those involved in mine and urban exploration. Its possible in a Mars Cave some kind of wire or communication will be brought inside FRS radio, possible back up Astronaut or Rescue Team in case of Emergency, Cave is already mostly mapped and Cave directions given, people are expected to be skilled climbers or skilled in knot tying, some cavers have foldable ladders, soem might now bring drones with them and first aid survival kits are also carried.

The Most Dangerous Gases In Mining?
https://www.howden.com/en-gb/articles/m … -in-mining
Due to being in a confined space these gases are not always able to disperse and can therefore build up in the mine, and due to their combustible, explosive, or toxic qualities this is a serious issue.

Harness

Any harness will do, but caving harnesses are specifically designed for SRT and are recommended. Considerations are comfort: you may be sitting in the harness for some time;
cleaning: harness will get wet and muddy.

Caving harness, Body Protection, Cows tail, Dynamic Ropes, Ascenders, Descenders, Rope and Ladder, Shovel and Picks, Extra Air, Extra Heat.

Lists of highly toxic corrosive explosive gases that we might find inside Caves of Mars...for now it is an unknown we do not know. Perhaps the Caver will also have a gas detector?

'See the Ugly Beauty That Lives in a Toxic Cave'
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie … toxic-cave

Lurking below the quaint ski town of Steamboat Springs, Colorado, lies a cave belching deadly gases. Its ceiling is dotted with snottites, dangling blobs that look like thick mucus and drip sulfuric acid strong enough to burn holes through T-shirts. And the whole place is covered in slime.

So why would anyone want to go there?

It's there, a new area to explore and you might find alien life!

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-12 08:07:49)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-12 08:10:18

Some Earth based links

NZ website Kit
https://caving.org.nz/pmwiki/pmwiki.php … ion/SRTKit
https://british-caving.org.uk/
https://caves.org/

Caves on Titan?

"We realized that essentially the composition of the lakes is very, very similar to the one of the mare, of the sea," he said. "We believe that these bodies are fed by local rains and then these basins, they drain liquid."
That suggests that below Titan's surface, the moon may host yet another feature reminiscent of Earth: caves. On Earth, many caves are formed by water dissolving away surrounding rock types like limestone, leaving behind a type of landscape called karst, characterized by springs, aquifers, caves and sinkholes.
https://www.space.com/saturn-moon-titan … caves.html
Researchers studying Titan's lake region think that they see similar karst-type characteristics. They also haven't spotted channels connecting all these different liquid features, which is why Mastrogiuseppe and others suspect that some of the liquid may be seeping into the surrounding terrain, much like karst systems here on Earth.
"Titan is really this world that geologically is similar to the Earth, and studying the interactions between the liquid bodies and the geology is something that we haven't really been able to do before," Lopes said. The new studies begin to make that happen by seeing those interactions playing out live on another planetary body.
Of course, it's much more difficult to study these interactions so far away, on a world that has never been the primary focus of a mission. "We've been talking about possible missions with robotic explorers that might crawl down into lava tubes and caves on the moon and Mars," Lopes said. "Could we in the future send one of these to sort of crawl down into this terrain and into caves and find out what's underneath there?"
Such a mission likely won't happen any time soon, but NASA is seriously considering a project called Dragonfly that would land a drone on the strange moon. If selected, the mission would launch in 2025 and reach Titan nine years later. And if NASA doesn't choose Dragonfly, chances are good that another mission concept will come along. "Titan's just too cool to not go back to," MacKenzie said.

Caves of Mars Project showed crickets and mice could breathe argon mixtures for extended periods without apparent problems and demonstrated wireless communications within limestone cave system PDF link
http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/ … Boston.pdf

As Robert Zimmerman’s cover story of the April 2013 issue explains, Earth is not the only world in the inner solar system with caves. The same volcanic processes that created some of Earth’s caves also occurred on the Moon and Mars. Using imagery from a variety of orbiters, geologists have spotted a number of openings on these other worlds that don’t have the classic features of impact craters. Some, most, or all of these features are likely to have underground passages that would offer substantial protection and stable temperatures for future human explorers and colonists.
We show below additional photos of possible caves on the Moon and Mars that couldn't fit in the article.
https://skyandtelescope.org/sky-and-tel … -and-mars/

A roadmap to cave dwelling on the Moon and Mars
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 7714005316

Titan may be riddled with caves
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn … ith-caves/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-12 08:46:41)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-12 09:44:13

some Earth based videos

Mammoth Cave | Kentucky Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-E3omSUroQ
Asia China. Shuanghe Cave, Longest Cave in Asia, Great Value to Researches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI1fuPyo2uo
Spanish Language, sima de la higuera Pliego Spain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOpoX2a_r-o
Murrawijinie Caves, Nullabor Plain, South Australia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeZYZcjIYpI
Mysterious rock carvings and artwork of Pilliga’s Sandstone Caves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW4eARoynJ4
Freediving hidden caves in Australia!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ecseWpxAU

Tight Squeeze in a Cramped Cave
https://rumble.com/v1alekg-tight-squeez … -cave.html
Swabian Alps aka The Swabian Jura or German Schwäbische Alb. The Swabian Jura occupies the region bounded by the Danube in the southeast and the upper Neckar in the northwest. In the southwest it rises to the higher mountains of the Black Forest. The highest mountain of the region is the Lemberg (1,015 m (3,330 ft)). The area's profile resembles a high plateau, which slowly falls away to the southeast. Some of the oldest signs of human artifacts were found. Best known are: a mammoth, a horse head, a water bird, and two statues of a lion man all of surprising quality and all more than 30,000 years old. The oldest known musical instruments have been found here, too: flutes made from the bones of swans and griffon vultures, some 35,000 years old, and in 2004 a flute carved from the tusk of a mammoth dating from the Ice Age, around 37,000 years ago.

A vid with some history, myths and legends and maybe paranoid tinfoil conspiracy video? A lot of old cities have old systems underneath. Deep below the streets of Nottingham there lies a strange world of mystery and secrets in the shape of the city's famous cave network. There are over five hundred known caves, but only two are open to the public.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/JJacgiGmBBG2/
'Caves under Nottingham'

Lava tubes on Earth, Moon and Mars: A review on their size and morphology revealed by comparative planetology
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 5220303342

Although it is still impossible to gather direct information on the interior of Martian and lunar lava tube candidates, scientists have the possibility to investigate their surface expression through the analysis of collapses and skylight morphology, morphometry and their arrangement, and compare these findings with terrestrial analogues. In this review the state of the art on terrestrial lava tubes is outlined in order to perform a morphological and morphometric comparison with lava tube candidate collapse chains on Mars and the Moon. By comparing literature and speleological data from terrestrial analogues and measuring lunar and Martian collapse chains on satellite images and digital terrain models (DTMs), this review sheds light on tube size, depth from surface, eccentricity and several other morphometric parameters among the three different planetary bodies. The dataset here presented indicates that Martian and lunar tubes are 1 to 3 orders of magnitude more voluminous than on Earth, and suggests that the same processes of inflation and overcrusting were active on Mars, while deep inflation and thermal entrenchment was the predominant mechanism of emplacement on the Moon. Even with these outstanding dimensions (with total volumes exceeding 1 billion of m3), lunar tubes remain well within the roof stability threshold.

Take refuge in a cave – on the Moon
https://web.archive.org/web/20220802115 … -the-moon/
Lunar caves as large as entire towns could provide shelter for human exploration.
Caverns on the Moon and Mars can offer enough space, protection against cosmic radiation and stable temperatures for astronaut bases, a recent study suggests.
New research compared hundreds of underground formations on Earth, the Moon and Mars. While on our planet the diameter of lava tunnels typically ranges from 10 to 30 metres, some of these features could reach more than 800 meters in diameter under the surface of the Moon – enough space to host a human colony.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-27 17:42:24)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-12 10:10:39

Cecil Cave is a sea cave which indents the southern part of Cape Ingrid on the west coast of Peter I Island in Antarctica. It was discovered and named by a Norwegian expedition under Eyvind Tofte in the Odd I in January 1927
https://geographic.org/geographic_names … antgeo_104
NASA Found a Giant Underground Cavern in Antarctica Almost the Size of Manhattan
https://www.popularmechanics.com/scienc … manhattan/
The cavern sits where nearly 14 billion tons of ice used to be, all of which melted in the last few years.

Discovery of Deadly Crystal Cave National Geographic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgUFb_l4DLE

Tourism? Europe's biggest crystal cave to open to public https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_O1wjA9xuY

Mexico's Giant Crystal Cave a human can only survive 12 minutes, crystals 50 tonnes and so humid you can drown in your own lungs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7yfx0ejELg

Deadly Warm Cave, only a small number of explorers have gained access because it is so dangerous. Cave Climate has Energy Draining Effect, they undergo medical testing before entering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXo60AuCSwc

Crystal Caves, Giant Geodes and an exhumed deposits and exposed cave in Egypt, Chile's dust storms and crystal devils.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVvhxcvHkDc

Tourism trip to old winery and World's Largest Crystal Cave. The crystals were mined to manufacture fireworks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQcrYet9OGw

Erebus Ice Caves 1992
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP5AdwkriWA

Exploring Toxic Ice Caves Inside an Active Volcano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TMGoEijnO4

40 foot fall or 12 meters followed by several hundred feet of tumble into toxic air? Alarms go off to indicate toxic air. Possible microbe life inside toxic caves, replicates what might be happening on Europa or Mars.

NZ Scientists walk through Helo cave, Mt Erebus, Antarctica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rijn0vz1D5I

Antarctica’s volcanic ice caves
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/2013 … -ice-caves
Located in one of Earth’s coldest spots, Mount Erebus is the southernmost active volcano on the planet. Its caves are home to mysterious microbes that thrive in the blistering heat.

Some other newmars older discussions

Post exploration and colonization, trade, trains building subway systems etc

Lava Tubes and Ice Tubes https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9617 , Tunnel Transportation on Earth, Mars or Luna https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9843 , Long Term Mars Habitat https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7496 The 5 places man could live in the solar system https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7450

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-12 10:32:37)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-13 16:00:49

Mammoth Cave is a tourist site, it eventually had a Hotel, Bowling Alley and a Ballroom and linked to Roadways. According to the Köppen climate classification system, Mammoth Cave National Park has a Humid subtropical climate, an average extreme minimum temperature of -3.2 °F (-19.6 °C) weather each year. Common fossils of the cave include crinoids, blastoids, and gastropods. its limestone has yielded fossils of more than a dozen species of shark.

more crazy old times and dealing with infectious disease?

Mammoth Failure, Strange TB Sanitarium and Mammoth Caves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH4PUtN7LcA
Morbid History of dealing with Tuberculosis Infectious Disease

The Nation’s First Tuberculosis Hospital Was Built Inside a Cave. Patients in Kentucky took their cures underground.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/t … ide-a-cave
The residents kept time and synced their schedule with the outside world. During the day, the cave was lit by stearin (fat) lamps and at night patients had their own taper candles. Once they got used to it, the darkness apparently did not bother patients. One mentioned that, “I seldom hear daylight mentioned and for myself seldom think of it.” Patients explored the cave, talked with each other, or read books to pass the time. Each Sunday, the small colony attended Episcopal services and read a sermon. Slaves brought meals into the cave and, according to one patient, these meals usually included venison.
This was before antibiotics, vaccination and modern era of medicine

Dr. John Croghan who died in 1849 was an American medical doctor who helped establish the United States Marine Hospital of Louisville, he also owned slaves and organized some tuberculosis medical experiments and tours for Mammoth Cave, in Kentucky during 1839–1849. Stephen Bishop was another early cave explorer, Bishop was brought to Mammoth Cave in 1838 when he was 17 years old, by lawyer and enslaver Franklin Gorin, who had acquired ownership of Bishop as repayment for a debt, Gorin had purchased Mammoth Cave from its previous owners in the spring of 1838 for $5000. In 1852, Bishop guided author Willis to Echo River. On the trip, Willis learned that, despite knowing that he would be freed in five years, Bishop intended to buy his and his wife's and son's freedom and move to Africa Liberia. Bishop was freed in 1856, seven years after the death of his enslaver, in accordance with Croghan's will. While there are several accounts of Bishop speaking of planning to move to Liberia Africa, he never went. Dr. Croghan himself died of the disease in 1849. Several sets of Native American remains have been recovered from Mammoth Cave, or other nearby caves in the region, in both the 19th and 20th centuries. Most mummies found represent examples of intentional burial, with ample evidence of pre-Columbian funerary practice. Mammoth Cave National Park was officially dedicated on July 1, 1941, in March 2005, a connection into the Roppel Cave portion of the system was surveyed from a small cave under Eudora Ridge, adding approximately three miles to the known length of the Mammoth Cave System, it is possible that many more miles of cave passages await discovery in the region.

Cave Dwelling Creatures You May Not Have Heard Of Before

Spiders from Mars were rock singer David Bowie's backing band?

https://www.thecaverns.com/news/5-cave- … -of-before

Harvestmen, often called “daddy longlegs,” are a diverse group of smaller arachnids that resemble spiders, which are distant relatives. Although they have eight legs, most species of harvestmen have at most two eyes and do not produce silk. Moreover, they lack venom glands and the ability to inject and chemically subdue prey. So the longstanding myth that “daddy longlegs” are the most venomous spiders is entirely inaccurate.
Rather harvestmen are omnivores that use their fang-like mouthparts called chelicerae to grasp and chew their food, which includes decomposing plant and animal matter as well being predators of smaller invertebrates. A few harvestmen are adapted to living in caves, including the Appalachian Cave Harvestman. This species lacks eyes, has reduced pigmentation, and is known from 20+ cave systems along the southern Cumberland Plateau. It was formally described based on specimens collected from nearby Wonder Cave.

maybe it will be Europa or an Exo-Planet that has the more complex lifeform?

Bowie's band name came from the UFO sighting 1954 at a Soccer match, where a stadium crowd thought they had witnessed 'Martian Spacecraft' which cast off a thin filament material,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAUrCkKVg9Y
it was later hypothesized to be webs from migrating spiders and sports lighting catching the floating web.

Thanks to mobile cellphone footage we have film of huge gossamer spiders' web blanketing areas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDZR8HZO-yg
US Giant spider web sets Memphis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnQZuZoN5u4

Would life be complex if it was found or would it be simple?
or maybe Europa or Exo-planets might have some type of other insect like creature or fish like creature?

Going caving before going to Mars

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/going- … g-to-mars/

Blank’s project is a NASA astrobiology mission called BRAILLE (Biologic and Resource Analog Investigations in Low Light Environments), which used a four-wheeled NASA test rover to explore nine caves in Lava Beds as practice for exploring on Mars and the Moon.
The goal wasn’t to gain major insights about the earthly caves – all nine are easily accessible to earthly scientists. Rather, it was to put the rover through its paces and figure out how to conduct such a mission from millions of kilometres away.
Planetary scientists, Blank says, know that such caves exist on both the Moon and Mars because we can peer into them via collapses in their ceilings, known as skylights.
“We’ve seen skylights on the Moon,” she says. “We’ve seen skylights on Mars and many [other] features implying that there may be many, many lava tubes on Mars.”
On the Moon, lava tubes may offer safe havens for Moon bases, shielded from dangerous radiation by the overlying rocks.
On Mars, they offer the same opportunity for shelter, but may also preserve signs of ancient microbes that once lived beneath the surface, “eating” energy-supplying chemicals in the rocks, much as ecosystems surrounding Earth’s deep-ocean hydrothermal vents “eat” chemicals bubbling up from the Earth’s interior.
“If there is life there,” Blank says, “those tubes are a good place to look. And if there was life in Mars’s ancient past, that’s where it’s most likely to be preserved.”

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-14 06:34:01)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-26 14:08:15

Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter finds lunar pits harbor comfortable temperatures

https://phys.org/news/2022-07-lunar-rec … arbor.html

some quotes from the article

"Humans evolved living in caves, and to caves we might return when we live on the Moon," said David Paige, a co-author of the paper who leads the Diviner Lunar Radiometer Experiment abord LRO that made the temperature measurements used in the study.

The pits, and caves to which they may lead, would make thermally stable sites for lunar exploration compared to areas at the Moon's surface, which heat up to 260 F (about 127 C) during the day and cool to minus 280 F (about minus 173 C) at night. Lunar exploration is part of NASA's goal to explore and understand the unknown in space, to inspire and benefit humanity.

A day on the Moon lasts about 15 Earth days, during which the surface is constantly bombarded by sunlight and is frequently hot enough to boil water. Brutally cold nights also last about 15 Earth days.

Pits were first discovered on the Moon in 2009, and since then, scientists have wondered if they led to caves that could be explored or used as shelters. The pits or caves would also offer some protection from cosmic rays, solar radiation and micrometeorites.

"Lunar pits are a fascinating feature on the lunar surface," said LRO Project Scientist Noah Petro of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. "Knowing that they create a stable thermal environment helps us paint a picture of these unique lunar features and the prospect of one day exploring them."
Lava tubes, also found on Earth, form when molten lava flows beneath a field of cooled lava or a crust forms over a river of lava, leaving a long, hollow tunnel. If the ceiling of a solidified lava tube collapses, it opens a pit that can lead into the rest of the cave-like tube.
Two of the most prominent pits have visible overhangs that clearly lead to caves or voids, and there is strong evidence that another's overhang may also lead to a large cave.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-26 14:22:30)

SpaceNut · 2022-07-30 20:36:32

Not to cold and not to hot but just goes the story 200 'Goldilocks' zones on the moon where astronauts could survive

The moon has wild temperature fluctuations, with parts of the moon heating up to 260 degrees Fahrenheit (127 degrees Celsius) during the day and dropping to minus 280 F (minus 173 C) at night. But the newly analyzed 200 shaded lunar pits are always always 63 F (17 C), meaning they're perfect for humans to shelter from the extreme temperatures.

AA1070ig.img?h=450&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-27 17:44:17

Astronauts going to Mars will receive many lifetimes worth of radiation
https://phys.org/news/2022-08-astronaut … worth.html

Direct Video in link

Lunar caves as large as entire towns could provide shelter for human exploration.
https://blogs.esa.int/caves/2020/08/20/ … -the-moon/

tahanson43206 · 2022-08-27 17:58:52

For Mars_B4_Moon re #9

The folks who wrote the article at the link you provided are (presumably) not acquainted with the radiation protection plans/intentions of all three of the Large Ship designs in talking stages in the forum archive.

All three intend to provide ** some ** protection.

I'm intending to follow the link you provided later this weekend, but I'm confident I'll find that the authors are thinking about totally unprotected flight, as would be the case with any of the tin-can concepts floated so far.

Update later:

I scanned the article to try to get a sense of where the authors were coming from and heading. They seem to assume little or no protection during flight, but their concerns seem to include time spent on the surface of Mars.

Here is a snippet showing suggestions for risk reduction on Mars. The cave living suggestion of Mars_B4_Moon appears to be a good fit.

The mitigation strategies include medicine and dietary strategies, along with active and passive shielding and potential types of Martian habitats to help further mitigate solar radiation exposure. Such habitats include using the Martian regolith as shielding material, along with the potential for habitats inside lava tubes and caves that currently exist on Mars. One previous study discussed a candidate lava tube southwest of Hadriacus Mons on Mars that could constitute an ~82% decrease in a crew's radiation exposure.
Dr. Atri considers the best strategy to maintain cumulative low doses of radiation on the crew would be to send astronauts to Mars who have received the least amount of radiation exposure throughout their careers to reduce the chances of long-term health effects.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-02 02:20:40

We have discussed the Troglophile and Troglobite creatures before perhaps cloning or engineering or adapting or engineering a creature that would one day live on Mars, move around inside its biosphere adapted to Lava tubes and Caves.

This blog covers many discovered subterranean species

Brachyuran Crabs (Decapoda) in the Limestone Caves of Thailand, with A Checklist of Freshwater Cave-dwelling Crabs in Southeast Asia
https://novataxa.blogspot.com/2022/02/c … iland.html

Ituglanis boticario A New Troglomorphic Catfish (Siluriformes: Trichomycteridae) from Mambaí Karst Area, central Brazil
https://novataxa.blogspot.com/2015/02/i … cario.html

A Most Remarkable Cave-specialized Trechine Beetle (Coleoptera, Carabidae, Trechinae) from southern China
https://novataxa.blogspot.com/2018/01/xuedytes.html

A New Species, the First Cave-dwelling Cyprinid Fish (Cypriniformes: Cyprinidae) in the Philippines, with Redescription of B. montanoi
https://novataxa.blogspot.com/2021/09/b … oleos.html

A New Genus for the Cavernicolous Crab Telphusa austeniana Wood-Mason, 1871 (Decapoda: Brachyura: Potamidae) from Meghalaya State, northeastern India
https://novataxa.blogspot.com/2020/05/krishnamon.html

of course many of these animals have their own rarity and must be protected

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-02 02:21:43)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-07 08:44:06

Training astronauts to be scientists on the moon
https://phys.org/news/2022-09-astronaut … -moon.html

Lunar Zebro
https://twitter.com/LunarZebro/status/1 … 9872407553
Did you know? This is the second time Zebro is going to walk through the lava caves in Iceland.

The Association was founded on April 11, 2002 as 'The Mars Club' by a group of 19 Founding members, amongst them Nobel Laureate Baruch Blumberg, who gathered in the Saint Stephen's Green Pub in Mountain View, California. At that meeting the Founding Declaration was adopted. The Founders declared the Mars Club as a forum for expeditioners and explorers interested in exploring the frontiers of Mars, including the deserts, mountains, poles and caves. It also included within its remit those who have explored Mars analog environments, which could include analog environments on the moon.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080308114 … about.html
Mars analog environments are environments that are similar to Mars, like regions in Antarctica or the Arctic. At the time of writing there have been no human expeditions to Mars. Those that have an interest in Martian exploration can find expression of their ambitions through these environments. Mars analog environments also underscore the connections between Earth and Mars explorers and their common vision of exploration.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-13 07:32:25

Up, close and personal with Mars: ReachBot and the future of space missions (subscription)
https://interestingengineering.com/inno … e-missions
The small climbing robot could explore caves on the Martian surface.

NASA funds experimental radiation shield and Mars climbing robot
https://www.newscientist.com/article/23 … ing-robot/

NASA Wants Technology to Allow Us to Breathe on Mars
https://www.21stcentech.com/nasa-techno … athe-mars/

One of twelve Phase 1 concepts receiving funding, TSSD sounds promising. Among the other projects receiving this type of early seed money include:
a technology that uses digital thread to 3D print custom, high-performance spacesuits on-site for environments like Mars.
a new spacecraft designed to provide radiation shielding for long-duration human spaceflight.
a spacecraft designed to harness the Sun’s heat to propel it at high speed out of the Solar System to go and study Earth-like exoplanets circling neighbouring stars.
a starshade the size of a football field to work with Earth-based telescopes to block light from distant stars to better study the atmospheres and characteristics of their planets.
a solid-state electric propulsion system for aircraft.
a probe to parachute into Venus’ atmosphere for the sampling of its gasses with the capability to return these samples to Earth.
In addition, the latest NASA announcement includes second phase funding of projects already on the go. These include:
BREEZE, an inflatable flier designed to explore the atmosphere of Venus at altitudes between 50 and 60 kilometres.
ReachBot, a small robot explorer designed to study the caves of Mars with the capability and dexterity for extreme ascents and descents.
APPLE, (Atomic Planar Power for Lightweight Exploration), a low-mass nuclear power source for future spacecraft of variable design.
SWIM, a swarm of 3D-printed microbots designed to explore the ocean worlds of Europa, Titan and Enceladus.
HERDS, a kilometre-sized rotating space platform built of metamaterials and designed to create artificial gravity for human habitations to eliminate many of the physiological challenges humans experience in long-duration missions.

ReachBot
https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/space … /ReachBot/

'Astronauts going to Mars will receive many lifetimes worth of radiation'
https://phys.org/news/2022-08-astronaut … worth.html

Watch out, arachnophobes! Queensland Museum is setting out to discover up to 100 new spider species
https://cosmosmagazine.com/nature/100-n … r-species/
The project has already uncovered 24 new specimens.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-22 13:55:27

Why cave exploration matters
https://canadiangeographic.ca/articles/ … n-matters/
2022 is the International Year of Caves and Karst. Here’s why you should care about the hidden worlds beneath our feet.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-05 04:30:06

NASA makes Mars breakthrough as meteorite 'marsquakes' unveil craters in planet's surface
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ … marsquakes

2007 article
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/270/nasa-orb … s-on-mars/
NASA Orbiter Finds Possible Cave Skylights on Mars

The observations have prompted researchers using Mars Odyssey and NASA's newer Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter to examine the Seven Sisters. The goal is to find other openings to underground spaces at lower elevations that are more accessible to future missions to Mars.

En route to exploring lunar caves

https://blogs.esa.int/caves/2020/10/08/ … nar-caves/

Last year, we asked for your ideas to detect, map and probe caves on the Moon. We selected five of these ideas for further investigation; together they will help us map the direction we should take to develop a mission to explore lunar caves.

Kauai Cave Wolf Spider

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen … kauai-cave

New adventure spot opens in Kalinga

https://mb.com.ph/2022/10/01/new-advent … n-kalinga/

Caves of Mars Project was an early 2000s program funded through Phase II[clarification needed] by the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts to assess the best place to situate the research and habitation modules that a human mission to Mars would require
PDF
https://web.archive.org/web/20051218054 … Boston.pdf

NIAC – Caves of Mars page 3
I. Project Summary
Natural subsurface cavities (caves) and subsurface constructs present the most mission effective habitat alternative for future human missions in the high-radiation and thermally challenging environments of Mars and Earth’s Moon.
Additionally, lava tubes, other caves, cavities, and canyon overhangs that will be found on other planets are sites of intense scientific interest. They offer easier subsurface access for direct exploration and drilling, and may provide extractable
minerals, gases, and ices. Expanding our NIAC Phase I feasibility assessment of a subsurface Mars mission architecture for the scientific exploration and human habitation of caves and subsurface facilities, we have developed the
notion of a complete, functioning subsurface habitat system. This system can integrate a spectrum of missions from both robotic precursors to human expeditionary missions and ultimately colonization.
We have developed a list of critical enabling technologies necessary to implement the idea of subsurface extraterrestrial habitat and science. We designed and implemented simple prototypes of some of these technologies and
conducted a “Mouse Mission to Inner Space” (MOMIS) to test some of them with mice as substitute speleonauts. We further designed and built components for a “Human Mission to Inner Space” (HUMIS) that awaits field trials as of this writing.
This will involve a proof-of-concept of the ability of speleonauts to do useful science in an Earth cave under mission simulation conditions as a proxy for a future Martian or lunar cave site. This project developed a revolutionary system to exploit the novel idea of
extraterrestrial cave use. It is comprised of a merger of unique technologies that will enable future NASA missions that might otherwise be impossible by solving significant mission-impacting human survival and exploration problems in the
hostile Martian and lunar environments.

Man In Cave 2022 - story of Floyd Collins, a Kentucky man trapped in a tiny cave for over two weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip9VGZeqMfo

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-29 09:26:11

Although Mars has an atmosphere it still has impacts, there might be a need to build things inside the protection of Caves and Mountains?

NASA's ailing Mars lander feels shockwaves from ice-blasting meteoroid impact
https://www.space.com/mars-fresh-large- … eor-impact

Ancient Lava Caves in Hawai'i Are Teeming With Mysterious Life Forms
https://www.sciencealert.com/hawaii-s-a … ark-matter

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-10-29 09:43:37)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-02-09 14:29:52

Scientists Searching Mars for Good Caves for Astronauts to Live In

https://futurism.com/the-byte/scientist … astronauts

The cave people seen by civilizations the Troglodyti "cave goers" a people mentioned in various locations by many ancient Greek and Roman geographers and historians

Troglobites: Animals that Live in a Cave - Geology
https://geology.com/stories/13/troglobites

The cave dweller: a visit to Malta's troglodyte dwellings
https://maltainsideout.com/23825/troglo … ings-malta

Titan might also have caves

and maybe Pits and Tunnels 3,000 feet (900 meters) wide on the Earth's Moon and Europa?

NASA’s LRO Finds Lunar Pits Harbor Comfortable Temperatures
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 … omfortable

Descent into a Frozen Underworld
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/descent-i … underworld

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-06-17 10:18:25

Researchers Are Building a Simulated Moon/Mars Research Station Deep Underground

https://www.universetoday.com/161563/re … derground/

an older article

Friend of Elon Musk Says He's Surrounded by Sycophants and Yes Men

https://futurism.com/chris-sacca-elon-musk-sycophants

In short, Sacca argued, Musk is surrounded himself by people who just agree with him, even when his ideas are bad.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-06-17 10:25:39)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-15 12:05:19

A Robot With Expandable Appendages Could Explore Martian Caves And Cliffs
https://www.universetoday.com/162786/a- … nd-cliffs/

Plenty of areas in the solar system are interesting for scientific purposes but hard to access by traditional rovers. Some of the most prominent are the caves and cliffs of Mars – where exposed strata could hold clues to whether life ever existed on the Red Planet. So far, none of the missions sent there has been able to explore those difficult-to-reach places. But a mission concept from a team at Stanford hopes to change that.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-16 18:36:16

Seriously ill US explorer describes his ‘crazy adventure’ after Turkey cave rescue
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ … rkish-cave

Scientist Wolfgang Fink to Outline Mars Cave & Lava Tube Exploration
https://www.marssociety.org/news/2023/0 … onvention/

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2022-07-12 07:26:38

Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#2 2022-07-12 07:57:49

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#3 2022-07-12 08:10:18

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#4 2022-07-12 09:44:13

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#5 2022-07-12 10:10:39

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#6 2022-07-13 16:00:49

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#7 2022-07-26 14:08:15

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#8 2022-07-30 20:36:32

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#9 2022-08-27 17:44:17

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#10 2022-08-27 17:58:52

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#11 2022-09-02 02:20:40

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#12 2022-09-07 08:44:06

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#13 2022-09-13 07:32:25

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#14 2022-09-22 13:55:27

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#15 2022-10-05 04:30:06

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#16 2022-10-29 09:26:11

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#17 2023-02-09 14:29:52

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#18 2023-06-17 10:18:25

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#19 2023-08-15 12:05:19

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

#20 2023-09-16 18:36:16

Re: Mars and the Moons need Cave Divers :D spelunking potholing experts

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