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#1 2022-04-27 06:37:20

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

Update June 15, 2022 More feedback from SpaceNut ...

I am proposing the drones should be powered by solar power driving propellers.  However, like large winged birds, and experienced human glider pilots, these drones should be able to gain lift from thermals and from rising air on the windward side of mountains.

Update June 15, 2022: Feedback from SpaceNut .... a purpose of this topic should be collecting fresh water from clouds before they unload on regions where more water is neither wanted nor needed. This purpose is in addition to the original purpose of delivering water to regions where it is needed and wanted.

Update May 7, 2022: Feedback from a person who is pretty level headed tells me that the idea of creating drone swarm clouds for water delivery is too far advanced for some folks. 

Update May 1, 2022: The original direction of this topic was to try to discover if an artificial cloud might allow transport of water to where it is
needed.

After letting the topic run for a few days, the contributors helped me to understand that the artificial cloud idea is not ready for prime time.

However, the discussion ** did ** reveal a much more practical solution to the problem of delivering fresh water from where it is created over an ocean, to where it is needed on land.  The ** very ** new technology of swarms of drones provides what appears to be a much more promising solution.

I am therefore rededicating this topic, with a new title: Artificial Cloud Human Controlled Delivery of Fresh Water (as of 2022/05/01) (th)

For SpaceNut .... here are the topics containing the word "cloud" that existed:

Cloud seeding by RobertDyck
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    22    2021-12-12 14:13:52 by RobertDyck

Venus Cloud Drone Mission by SpaceNut
Unmanned probes    5    2020-09-16 19:55:41 by SpaceNut

Earth Cloud Cities, Why Not? by SpaceNut
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    2    2018-10-23 19:31:48 by SpaceNut

Space Carbon Dioxide Cloud to Reduce Global Warming by Dook
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    7    2016-04-20 19:14:29 by SpaceNut

Pages: 1
Index» Search» Topics with posts containing 'cloud'

This topic is about none of these...

This topic arises from a discussion in the topic about providing fresh water from the ocean when Ma Nature refuses to do so.

Ma Nature shows ** how ** to transport fresh water from the ocean to inland locations where it is needed.  She just refuses to do it.

Instead, she insists upon dumping fresh water where it is not needed, at times that are inconvenient, and in quantities that are devastating.

Google reports the molecular weight of the water molecule to be 18.01528 grams per mol

Google reports the molecular weight of the oxygen molecule to be 31.999 grams per mol (rounded to 32 in most reports)

Google reports the molecular weight of the nitrogen molecule to be 28.014

I deduce from these figures that an individual water molecule will tend to rise in a gas mixture of oxygen and nitrogen.

However, there is more to the story of why water molecules float in the atmosphere of Earth, so I am looking forward to seeing more information in coming times.

In the ** mean ** time, ** this ** topic is offered to provide a drop off point for discussion of and insights about an artificial cloud concept.

Ma Nature makes clouds to show us how it's done, but She is quite permissive in her treatment of the molecules involved.

This topic proposes to ship water from point A to point B in a more disciplined manner, by combining steam with hydrogen gas inside a container (a pipe) made of carbon film.  The name for a two-dimensional structure of carbon is Graphene.

Per Google:

Graphene (/ˈɡræfiːn/) is an allotrope of carbon consisting of a single layer of atoms arranged in a two-dimensional honeycomb lattice nanostructure.
Graphene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Graphene
About Featured Snippets

A new two-dimensional carbon allotrope: Semiconducting diamane ...
phys.org › Nanotechnology › Nanomaterials

Aug 18, 2020 · Atomically thin diamond, also called diamane, is a two-dimensional carbon allotrope and has attracted considerable scientific interest due ...

People also ask
What are the names of the two forms of carbon?
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2D Materials: An Introduction to Two-Dimensional Materials | Ossila
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All in the graphene family – A recommended nomenclature for two ...
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Oct 23, 2021 · Interest in two-dimensional, sheet-like or flake-like carbon forms has expanded beyond monolayer graphene to include related materials with ...
A new type of two-dimensional carbon crystal prepared from 1,3,5 ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC5240129

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Bottom-Up Assembly of Graphene Quantum Dots to Form Two ...
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Mar 30, 2021 · This invention describes a uniquely engineered 2-D amorphous carbon film and a memristor fabricated with coal-derived carbon quantum dots as ...
Two-Dimensional Nanomaterials | IntechOpen
www.intechopen.com › chapters

Graphene is the most famous of 2D nanosheets that is composed of carbon atoms in a hexagonal (honeycomb) configuration with sp2-hybridized atoms [10, 11].
Design and Prediction of a Novel Two-Dimensional Carbon ...
www.hindawi.com › journals › jnm
]. But to date, the 2D carbon and analogous materials are not quite abundant. Therefore, it deserves exploration in theory and in experiment whether there ...
Two-Dimensional Carbon-Rich Conjugated Frameworks for ...
pubs.acs.org › doi › abs

Jul 6, 2020 · Following a 15-year-long investigation on graphene, two-dimensional (2D) carbon-rich conjugated frameworks (CCFs) have attracted growing ...

Graphene may have a role to play in collecting water molecules that are free floating in the air. 
As of 2022/06/15, this topic is rededicated to the vision of harvesting water from clouds, or from atmosphere where it is present, using solar powered winged drones, guided by a satellite communications system controlled by a central coordinating computer. Millions of drones would be operating in air space where civilian and military aircraft are operating, so coordination will be needed. The solar powered nature of these drones means that they would be less maneuverable than aircraft powered by stored chemical energy.

(th)

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#2 2022-04-27 14:34:01

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

It would be interesting to compare the overall performance of a fabric/Graphene above-ground tunnel for shipment of water embedded/packaged with hydrogen system, compared to a physical pipeline to carry water.

The cost of the tunnel ought to be much less, but such a tunnel would be exposed to damage on the surface.

Such a tunnel might be cost effective as a demonstration of feasibility for a water supply service.

(th)

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#3 2022-04-27 19:41:14

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,731

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

cloud issue is due to water rise exceeds cooling as mountains rise should cause it to cool.
So balloon air cooling units are needed to intercede the heat caused rise

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_height

https://www.weather.gov/media/lmk/soo/cloudchart.pdf

Nimbus clouds are low-level clouds that have their bases below 2,000 meters (6,500 feet) above the Earth and can also bring rain, snow, or hail.

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#4 2022-04-27 20:06:21

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

For SpaceNut re #3....

Thanks for giving this new topic a boost!

By any chance (and if you have time, which I know is limited!), can you find out how much water vapor might be transported via a fabric "pipe" if the enclosing gas is Hydrogen?

I've tried seaching, and so far Google has been perplexed by my question.  It keeps trying to show how to make hydrogen from water vapor.

I'm trying to find out if shipping water as vapor mixed with hydrogen gas might prove efficient and inexpensive.

Since output of a desalination system at the Sea of Cortez must be lifted a thousand vertical feet or so to reach Phoenix, one way to accomplish that is to mix the water with hydrogen as vapor, and the two should lift themselves up the pipe to the reception facility at the top of the mini-mountain in Arizona, where the water vapor would be cooled to fresh water which would then flow down hill.

The hydrogen (of course) is a handy fuel for whatever operations may be needed, and there might even be some surplus to deliver electricity to Arizona citizens.

The capacity of a gas to hold water vapor is a function of temperature, so the gas mixture needs to be heated as it exits the production facility.  However, an unknown is what carrying capacity hydrogen may have if it is infused with steam.

(th)

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#5 2022-04-28 08:12:14

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

The premise of this topic is that study of how Ma Nature does things is often a useful guide for us humans.

In the case of transport of desalinated water from the oceans to on-land destinations, Ma Nature delivers thousands of tons of fresh water every day, using nothing more energetic than the occasional photon.

It is ** true ** that She employs a ** lot ** of photons.

In the case of the concept of enlisting the methods demonstrated by Ma Nature, to deliver fresh water from the Sea of Cortez to Arizona, I am thinking about enlisting the tried and true method of embedding water molecules in a carrier gas.  The difference in the proposal I am offering is that, instead of random distribution of those water molecules, as is shown by Ma Nature, I am proposing to constrain the path of the water molecules so they end up where we want them.

That does ** not ** preclude enlisting photons, generously provided by Ma Nature, to assist with the movement of those molecules. 

In the case of an above-ground conduit for water molecules, if the conduit is clear on top and black on the bottom, then Ma Nature can be counted upon to assist the enterprise by delivering thermal energy to the transport, and thus encouraging the water molecules to hurry on their way to the desired destination.

(th)

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#6 2022-04-29 20:10:06

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 4,562

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

I will give it an early try.  I had a thing where I supposed that windmills at elevation could pull a vacuum on a tunnel/pipe.  That was flawed as at higher elevations wind power does not work so well.

But supposing the boring company does achieve better results down the line.  (Actually, that seems possible).

It might be possible to have multiple uses for it.  While hyperloop needs a rather strong vacuum, this would not, although it could at times have one.

So, point "A" might be the Salton Sea.  Point "B" might be someplace else in the great basin, which includes Arzona I believe.
Point "B" would generate a vacuum at its end of the tunnel/pipe.  Most likely with solar power, type not defined.

Let me divert for a small bit.  It is my notion that a sensible people would seek to move sea water into the Salton Sea and would seek to move brine out to the sea in some place.  This would not all be a burden.  These may be shipping canals, and also, gravity energy storage.
In the day pump briny lake water out, during the night when energy is most needed, generate power by letting sea water in.  I like this one as it brings the sea into the interior of the great basin, and it also simulates tides in the "Salton Sea".  But other places might do.

So, at point "A" you boil the waters of the Salton Sea to produce steam.  Pont "B" has provided a vacuum energy source for this.  So, sub 1 bar boiling could occur in this process, and since point "B" sucks the contents of the tube out, this process should not become air bound.  (Air bound is often a real problem when working with boiling at low pressures).

The water of the Salton Sea should often be warm enough for this to work out, at least in the warm seasons.

At point "B", the steam suctioned out of the tube, then compressed can condense.  Desert nights can provide cold, days can provide energy, and the pumping process will insist on the production of a condensate.

If I sort of understand, you also want to push dissolved Hydrogen through that process.  That is likely to be OK as it would be compressed with the steam, but would not condense, so could be separated for sale to a use.

This is a "Pull" system, where the tube is operating below local atmospheric pressure.  However, you could add "Push" and boil the Salton Sea water at higher temperatures and send it into the tube at pressures above atmospheric.  In this case the tube warms up over time.

Where the tube can be considered a conveyor, it is also a reservoir.  Both of Vacuum or Pressure, and also if warmed up, then heat.

Curiously if operated in below atmospheric conditions it would be a reservoir of cold.

Well this was a first try.  I may have wandered away from some of what you wanted.

I do think that this could be done on Mars as well.

In that case, perhaps even a hyperloop tunnel could have a very thin vapor of water and Hydrogen to move those substances to a location from a location.

Another interesting notion would be to indeed allow some air in at point "A".  For Earth this then would invalidate the inclusion of Hydrogen.
But you could turn a turbine with vacuum power, created by Point "B".  You could still allow water vapors into the tube.

Hope we might do more.  Hope this can be aligned to your needs.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-04-29 20:30:00)


Done.

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#7 2022-04-29 20:29:14

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

For Void ... while the Salton Sea is in view (thanks to your post #6) I would like to observe that you have mentioned the Salton Sea many times (ie, more than 6).

However, I don't recall seeing any indication that you realize the Salton Sea is below sea level, like the Dead Sea in the Middle East.

If anyone were to dig a tunnel from the Salton Sea to the Pacific Ocean, or to the nearby Sea of Cortez, the Salton Sea basin would fill up with sea water, and since the Salton Sea is a evaporation engine due to it's location, the sea water would continue to arrive as the surface of the Salton Sea evaporates.

However, there are geologists who worry that if the volume of sea water sufficient to equalize the surface of the Salton Sea with the Pacific Ocean were to arrive at the location of the Salton Sea, then the San Andreas fault would be triggered.

That fault is overdue for a massive release of pressure, and the event will be notable on multiple levels (speaking literally and figuratively, of course).

There may be a map showing what the Salton Sea would look like if a passage to the Pacific were opened.  I would be interested to see if, if anyone can find one.

(th)

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#8 2022-04-29 20:31:52

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 4,562

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

If you read my prior post, I do not intend to increase the level of the Salton Sea, only use it to store and release energy, while flushing out excess salts, and creating an artificial tide.

Quote Me:

Let me divert for a small bit.  It is my notion that a sensible people would seek to move sea water into the Salton Sea and would seek to move brine out to the sea in some place.  This would not all be a burden.  These may be shipping canals, and also, gravity energy storage.
In the day pump briny lake water out, during the night when energy is most needed, generate power by letting sea water in.  I like this one as it brings the sea into the interior of the great basin, and it also simulates tides in the "Salton Sea".  But other places might do.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-04-29 20:33:19)


Done.

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#9 2022-04-30 13:02:09

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

After an interesting look at the Salton Sea, I'd like to return this topic to the primary focus, which is study of Ma Nature's delivery mechanism for fresh water.

Ma Nature liberates water molecules from salty mixtures of water and other matter by energizing them with photons.

Because water molecules have a lower molecular weight than the molecules of Oxygen and Nitrogen that make up the atmosphere of Earth, they are buoyed up by their neighbors, and want to rise as a result of gentle nudges by their neighbors, as long as the ambient temperature is sufficient to prevent freezing/clumping of water molecules.

I had asked Void to think about the problem, and he suggested sending steam through tunnels.

I have accepted the wisdom of that idea, and applied it to the Mars context ... if a "tunnel" for steam can be thought of as a pipe, and if the pipe is run along the interior of a "real" tunnel on Mars, then the interior of the tunnel will draw thermal energy from the steam in the pipe.  This will have the mutually beneficial effect of heating the tunnel, and thus the living quarters in the tunnel, ** and ** condensing water from the vapor, which may be drawn off as potable water by the residents.

***
However, Void's interesting idea, while definitely demonstrated by Ma Nature as a way to move water from point A to point B, does not sufficiently address the issue at hand ...

Ma Nature uses the structure we humans call a "cloud" to move vast quantities of fresh water from the oceans around the Earth, onto land masses where it might be useful, if if fell in the right places.

However, Ma Nature could not possibly care LESS what we humans  might prefer, so most of the fresh water so generously supplied goes where it is not needed, and locations on land where it would be much appreciated are left dry as a bone.

I am proposing to address that mismatch between supply and need with this topic.

***
Today, I will introduce the concept of photon powered water delivery drones.

Drones are already able to carry significant weight, well above a kilogram, but to keep this topic in a mode of practical application, I will propose the delivery quantity/mass should be one kilogram of water (a liter)

The question to be addressed is the capability of humans to design a drone that will carry one kilogram over a hundred miles (hundreds of kilometers) using nothing but solar power as the energy source.

I am proposing to follow Ma Nature's example, but to overcome the crude, undisciplined water delivery system she provides by default.

***
Opening the floor for comments/suggestions/improvements ...

(th)

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#10 2022-04-30 17:42:49

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,731

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

You would not want the vapor and hydrogen mix as that would make for it to be come flammable at exit for water capture.

So how do we get a volume of water to evaporate quickly but still keep it that way for the length of the journey as its going to cool as it goes and form water droplets. While that is fine for the down path to the processing plant its not what we need for the distance that we must be able to get it from the source to the destination.

Fabric pipe would be a double pipe type of construction (a balloon tube) and since we want volume of vapor the larger the better for getting it to move in quantity. The fabric would cause it to become wind blown so its got to have anchoring tie downs. I would assume its going to follow the ground under it but that could also be a problem for how to get the vapor to move without something drawing ti on the other end of the fabric tube. Then the issue is the altitude for planes and markings to be able to avoid it.

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#11 2022-04-30 19:11:09

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

For SpaceNut re #10

Thanks for the safety warning about sending hydrogen via a fabric "pipeline".  I think that idea deserves to flow under the NewMars bridge, never to be heard from again, unless Mars_B4_Moon brings it back for some reason.

He's been on a roll lately!  I'm having difficulty keeping up! 

(th)

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#12 2022-04-30 20:15:50

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,731

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

If the pipeline runs along a power corridor then we have less problems with the variety of piping to underground tunnels to carry it form the source to its destination and the power lines can provide the pumping power as required.

The movement of vapor is less efficient to that of moving water for sure.

Finding the lowest cost transport system for moving that water over distance is priority one to that of desalination plant location.

latest drought map

c6745bfdd8234d9b7e2e529ab3f56707

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#13 2022-05-01 07:02:35

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

Update May 1, 2022: The original direction of this topic was to try to discover if an artificial cloud might allow transport of water to where it is needed.

After letting the topic run for a few days, the contributors helped me to understand that the artificial cloud idea is not ready for prime time.

However, the discussion ** did ** reveal a much more practical solution to the problem of delivering fresh water from where it is created over an ocean, to where it is needed on land.  The ** very ** new technology of swarms of drones provides what appears to be a much more promising solution.

I am therefore rededicating this topic, with a new title: Artificial Cloud Human Controlled Delivery of Fresh Water (as of 2022/05/01) (th)

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#14 2022-05-01 07:13:08

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

With a new Topic Title, and a new (Earth) Month just starting, I am relaunching this topic with what I hope will become the basis of a multi-billion dollar (USD) business that will flourish in every nation on Earth that uses fresh water.

The (very recent) demonstrations of drone swarms to make gigantic light displays for outdoor events inspires this vision:

We (humans) ** should ** be able to design, build and successfully operate drones that can carry one kilogram of fresh water (a liter) over distances of hundreds of kilometers, to deliver it to where it is needed with precision, using solar power as the primary power source.

Solar powered flight has been demonstrated.  A vehicle called "Solar Impulse 2" flew around the world in stretches that included a flight from Asia to Hawaii. There are solar powered UAV devices under consideration for extended service flying at high altitude.

The proposal on offer here is to fly fresh water from wherever it is (including regions that have too much of it) to where it is needed.

The map just posted by SpaceNut shows where water is needed in the United States.

There are surely similar maps showing similar need in Africa and other continents.

What is needed (from my perspective) is integration of all the existing elements to create a smoothly functioning human controlled replacement for the random distribution of fresh water carried out by Ma Nature in Her undisciplined way.

I assert that it is now possible for humans to take charge of the distribution of fresh water on Earth, and that those who build companies able to meet the many needs that already exist will do quite well.

(th)

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#15 2022-05-01 11:09:40

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

In order to give this restart of the Artificial Cloud topic a running start, here is a list of firms that Google "thinks" might be building solar powered UAV's...

solar powered unmanned aerial vehicles

Scholarly articles for solar powered unmanned aerial vehicles
scholar.google.com › citations
Solar-powered unmanned aerial vehicles

Reinhardt · Cited by 44
… integration of a solar powered unmanned aerial vehicle …

Malaver · Cited by 138
… -endurance solar-powered unmanned aerial vehicles

Hosseini · Cited by 37
atlantiksolar | A UAV for the first-ever autonomous solar-powered ...
www.atlantiksolar.ethz.ch
The Autonomous Systems Laboratory (ASL) has developed a pioneering solar-powered unmanned aerial vehicle

(UAV), AtlantikSolar, capable of flying for ...
The Project · The Team · Publications · Links
Solar-powered unmanned aerial vehicles - IEEE Xplore

ieeexplore.ieee.org › document
The HALE unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) has good potential for use in many military and civil applications. The primary power system components considered in ...
Date Added to IEEE Xplore: 06 August 2002
DOI: 10.1109/IECEC.1996.552842

People also ask
What is solar-powered UAV?
Can drones be solar-powered?
What is the best unmanned aerial vehicle?
Is solar-powered flight possible?

Solar Powered Drone | HALE UAS | HAPS | Solar UAV - Unmanned ...
www.unmannedsystemstechnology.com › supplier-directory › platforms

Solar Powered Drones ... Extending the endurance of electric unmanned aerial vehicles (Drones, UAV, UAS, RPAS) is an important consideration for many drone, UAV ...
[PDF] Development of a Solar-Powered Unmanned Aerial Vehicle ... - MDPI
www.mdpi.com › pdf

May 24, 2021 · Solar-powered. UAV, using solar cells installed onboard, captures solar energy reaching the aircraft surface during daylight. Such generated ...
Development of a Solar-Powered Unmanned Aerial Vehicle for ...
www.mdpi.com › ...

Having an exciting array of applications, the scope of unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) application could be far wider one if its flight endurance can be ...
Academic Editor: Abdessattar Abdelkefi
Solar-powered UAVs - Dr. Kostas Alexis

www.kostasalexis.com › solar-powered-uavs
Solar-powered Unmanned Aerial Vehicles ; ICARUS project and has synergies with the ; SHERA project in which ASL also participates. Our fixed-wing fleet aims to ...
Top 8 Solar Powered Drone (UAV) Developing Companies

sinovoltaics.com › technology › top8-leading-companies-developing-solar-...
Top 8 Solar Powered Drone (UAV) Developing Companies · No. 1 – Airbus (QinetiQ) · No. 2 – Boeing Phantom Works · No. 3 – Google (Titan Aerospace) · No. 4 – Facebook ...
Duration: 4:13
Posted: Jul 9, 2015
(PDF) Solar-powered unmanned aerial vehicles - ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net › publication › 3666682_Solar-powered_unmanned...
An unmanned solar powered aircraft configuration called SOLITAIR has been designed. This aircraft is intended to be used as a high-altitude long-endurance (HALE) ...
Design and development of solar powered unmanned aerial vehicle ...
aip.scitation.org › doi › abs

Nov 1, 2021 · The proposed UAV is designed specifically to stay in the air as long as possible, which in turn
increases the flight travel distance. Acquiring ...
Solar Powered Small Unmanned Aerial Vehicles: A Review - 2021
onlinelibrary.wiley.com › doi › abs › ente.202170121

Dec 3, 2021 · Drones are meticulously designed to control the aerodynamics of the flight, which can be negatively impacted by the use of rigid and heavy ...

Any or all of these organizations may be capable of designing a UAV for water transport.

Transport overnight might be achieved by simply landing on an island if one is available, or at an airport if the journey is overland, or at a flat spot in a desert if the journey is over desolate areas.

Update:

Caroline Rees - Founder & CEO - Unmanned Systems Technology
www.apollo.io › people › Caroline › Rees
Caroline Rees' email address is c**@unmannedsystemstechnology.com. What is Caroline Rees' business email address? Caroline Rees' business email address is c**@ ...

(th)

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#16 2022-05-01 19:06:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,731

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

The solar powered helicopters on mars give evidence to the distance that we are capable to move water from a light mass vehicle.
Sure earth can give a higher level of energy for its use to lift mass.
A Nuclear powered UAV could lift a greater amount of water but would we think of it as safe.

Notice all the rivers inside the map and look even to the top of Maine and you will see a speck that is not clear but showing signs that it will be in trouble soon.

The globe is warming in such a way as to cause the air to rise such that it does not cool to drop its cargo on the land as it travels.

So we could reflect the suns rays but we need its energy as well as its taking even more to be able to live.

Is it even possible to reverse the warming of earths soils and air is the question and what technology would we use.

So far just about all sources of energy produce some value of heat as a by product of its use.

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#17 2022-05-01 21:01:43

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

For SpaceNut re #16

Thanks for picking up on the theme of this topic, with mention of the solar powered helicopter on Mars!   That machine is designed specifically for the Mars environment, so it may not work as well on Earth, but it definitely shows the way forward!

Thank you for the reminder! 

In your next statement, you've identified the heart of the opportunity!

Sure earth can give a higher level of energy for its use to lift mass.

The solar energy is greater, but so is the force of gravity.  Another variable is the density of the atmosphere.

However, from the text in Post #16, I get the impression you are thinking on a larger scale than I have in mind. 

What i am aiming for is a 1 kilogram load (one liter of fresh water) carried from off shore (Pacific Ocean outside 12 mile limit, for example) to inland destinations as far away as Phoenix, and all the points in between.

A ** really ** long distance version would carry that kilogram all the way from Alaska to Phoenix.  As long as the Sun shines, and the drone can rest overnight at safe locations, it could take as long as it needs to complete the journey.

Once a machine like that is set into motion, it would need only occasional maintenance, aside from accidents that can be expected for flying "creatures" making long journeys.

Flocks of these could be funded by the US forest service to provide a steady flow of fresh water to forests throughout the continental US.

Flocks of these could be funded by private ventures to serve customers willing to pay whatever the going rate would be for a kilogram delivered to the destination.

A futures market would come into being, for flocks of water carriers loaded and on their way from the source of fresh water.

Hackers would have a field day trying to divert individual carriers to their private cache of fresh water.

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#18 2022-05-05 13:16:52

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

For SpaceNut (primarily ... all welcome to comment/add)

In order to try to move the drone water delivery idea forward, I posted an inquiry on the web site of what appears to be a high end drone manufacturer ... here is a snapshot of the message...

The Mars Society is thinking about how to provision settlers on Mars.  There is often overlap with the needs of Earth citizens. The need for delivery of fresh water (on Earth) from where it is over abundant, to where it is needed, can be met in a variety of ways. Modern technology, such as that developed by your company, can pick up fresh water from one location and deliver it to another, using nothing but solar power as the mechanism.  Flocks of drones fitted to carry as little as a liter at a time can refill reservoirs, supply cities and farms, and generally meet needs for water in many regions where supplies are short. If you (or a team member) is interested in working on this idea, please apply at newmars.com/forums. See the recruiting topic for procedure.
Thanks!
tahanson43206

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#19 2022-05-07 11:30:10

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

Here is the email address (and street address) of a company that provides drone swarms for public events.

The web site shows a number of examples of their work
   
Let us elevate your story.

E: info@pixisdrones.com | P: 833-918-6199 | A: 610 Madison Street, Suite 101 #804, Alexandria, VA 22314

Update:
For contact person at Pixis ...

This idea may be too advanced for any company on Earth, but I'm taking the risk of sending it to your company because it might click with someone.

Idea: transfer fresh water from A to B using drone swarms

The drones to perform this task would be solar powered, with onboard battery backup for emergencies.

The ones I have in mind would be able to carry a liter (kilogram) of water from Alaska to a customer in Phoenix, Arizona (or anywhere. Phoenix is chosen as representative)

Ownership is potentially available to private citizens, which would (if implemented) move capitalism out to a wide population.

Operation and maintenance would be managed by a third party, to which the drone owner would subscribe.

GPS would be used by the drone, ** and ** satellite supervision from ground stations for route clearing.

Flight pathways would be generally low, with respect to the ground, but wind currents would be enlisted by smart onboard guidance systems.

This idea comes from a branch of the Mars Society, whose members are thinking hard about how to supply Mars settlers with fresh water.

If you (or anyone you might know) would like to help develop this idea, you are welcome to contact newmars.com .... see the Recruiting topic.

(th)

tahanson43206 (Junior Moderator)


From web site:

Let us elevate your story.

E:     | P: 833-918-6199 | A: 610 Madison Street, Suite 101 #804, Alexandria, VA 22314

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#20 2022-05-09 07:30:32

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

Today's weather forecast includes displays of vigorous storm activity ....

The purpose of ** this ** post is to document the question:

What is the relationship between the presence of water molecules in an air mass, and the destructive potential of that air mass?

The hypothesis I'm interested in pursuing is that if the water molecules were removed, the air mass would be less destructive.

Cold air masses coming (generally from) the North, and warm air masses coming (generally) from the South, are going to interact with each other, and those interactions are going to produce winds.

The question of this post is: What is the influence of the presence of water molecules on the behavior of interacting air masses.

It is entirely possible that the atmospheric computer models in use today, for weather forecasting, may include options to vary the amount of water vapor present.

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#21 2022-05-09 07:36:38

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

The Insurance industry may be a potential ally to help with funding of Artificial Cloud technology.

Losses due to weather events of various kinds are substantial.  Insurance companies routinely employ risk mitigation strategies.

The cost of premiums can be reduced if customers satisfy insurers they have taken action to reduce risk to insured assets.

Removal of moisture from air masses might be a risk mitigation strategy that could be undertaken by a consortium of insurers.

(th)

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#22 2022-05-09 18:29:28

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 25,731

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

I am wondering if we can make use of a version on the venus air ship

venusmission_airship.png

to create artificial cooling of the air that its passing through. We would place an air sock between a couple of these to draw in air to cool it.

This ship is solar powered but uses helium for lift and props to control positioning.

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#23 2022-05-09 18:42:42

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

For SpaceNut re #22

It is fun to see a leap to Venus for this topic!  There are ** lots ** of clouds on Venus, for sure!

I logged in to drop off this snippet from Google.... it gives a hint that storms are made more severe by presence of water vapor...

Atmospheric water vapour is an important factor in weather for several reasons. It regulates air temperature by absorbing thermal radiation both from the Sun and the Earth. Moreover, the higher the vapour content of the atmosphere, the more latent energy is available for the generation of storms.
humidity | atmosphere - Encyclopedia Britannica
www.britannica.com › ... › Earth Sciences
About Featured Snippets

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#24 2022-05-10 03:13:31

Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 1,922

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

How about a tethered, static, hydrogen filled balloon, that sits within the lower cloud layer?  Water droplets would condense on its surface and water would drain into gutters, before flowing down the hollow tether.


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#25 2022-05-10 05:37:01

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 10,438

Re: Artificial Cloud Drone Delivery of Fresh Water and Storm mitigation

For Calliban re #24

For creativity, Post #24 appears to me to be of "Void" class!  Congratulations and thanks!

Where Ma Nature is consistently flowing fresh water through the atmosphere, a permanent harvesting system could be installed and maintained.

The harvest could flow to ships designed to deal with rough seas, and able to collect many tons of clean, fresh, desalinated water.

That water could then be picked up by aircraft designed for the purpose, and delivered to wherever it is needed on land.

Ma Nature provides everything needed for free.  What is required is human cooperation to move what is needed to where it is needed.

Update at 11:19 local time ... for Calliban .... can you imagine a water gathering ship?

A hydrogen balloon carries (something) aloft, and fresh, desalinated water comes cascading down for collection in huge tanks.

Weather forecasters alive today (in 2022) should be able to predict where water laden air masses are likely to be, so ships can take station and pull down a steady supply of fresh, desalinated, drinkable water.

Even at $2.48 per ton, it should be possible to turn a slim profit if the user base is large enough

That figure of $2.48 per ton comes from the proposed $3,000 per acre-foot estimate of a proposal in Arizona.

(th)

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