Ice Roadway on Mars

tahanson43206 · 2022-02-23 08:11:29

This new topic is a branch from work of Calliban on Aerial Ropeways for use on Mars.

For SpaceNut ... a search for "ice" and "roadway" in "topics" gave zero results.

***
Upon arrival of a suggestion from Mars_B4_Moon to consider Titan, I have expanded the scope of this topic to include ** all ** Solar System bodies where an ice road might make sense. Contributions of object names and (more importantly) practical construction and operation suggestions are welcome.
***

The idea of using ice on Mars for heavy transport actually flows from Calliban's proposal of water filled pipes floating barges.

These may well come into existence, where appropriate, but since the normal temperatures of Mars' surface are close to the freezing point of water, ice would seem to be an attractive alternative to rails for transport systems on Mars.

Calliban has pointed out that such roadways would require maintenance, because ice would be deformed and displaced by heavy skid traffic, but Humans have built up a noteworthy history of successful grooming of ice on Earth for sports purposes. That technology could be exported to Mars to groom the ice roadways between trains of sledges.

Since the ice roadways would (presumably) be enclosed in fabric tunnels (to prevent contamination of the pure ice with sand and dust) the surface should stay clean between grooming and the next train.

The energy cost of procuring pure water for this enterprise is likely to be competitive with that of steel for rails and ties, and skis for sledges are likely to be easier and less energy costly to make than steel wheels and bearings for rail cars, I think the ice system would prove quite attractive.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-02-23 09:56:08

I assume since Titan has so much frozen material on its surface a similar form of transport could also be used there

tahanson43206 · 2022-02-23 10:52:45

For Mars_B4_Moon re #2

Thanks for an interesting and thought provoking contribution to the ice roadway topic.

Unfortunately the FluxBB software does not allow editing of the topic title.

If it did, I would immediately change the title to include locations other than Mars.

I'll take this opportunity to informally expand the topic title to include Titan and other icy Moons and even icy objects like Ceres.

Terraformer opened an entire line of discussion in Dr. Dartnell's Knowledge forum, using the handle Cererean.

An ice road on Ceres would seem (to me at least) quite practical indeed.

This topic is hereby opened for contributions from any member who would like to nominate a candidate object for an ice road.

Some practical contributions would be welcome.

On Mars, the ice road must be protected from the atmosphere, so I expect it would be enclosed by a fabric/plastic?/what? membrane of some kind, and that a minimal level of pressure might be maintained (a) or (b) lightweight hoops of some kind might carry the light load of the membrane.

It has already been pointed out (by Calliban) that an ice road will require maintenance, because skids passing over the material will melt it (thus providing low friction "rolling" interface) and it will immediately remelt into a rut.

This problem might be partially addressed by mounting skids in alternating patterns on the sledges.

Patterns might be (for example) [ 1 2 3] and [2 4 6]

A lighter sled might have patterns of [1 6] [2 4]

It would also help this topic along if you were to imagine the routes for such roads (on your chosen body), and the location of destinations of interest.

Edit: The skids don't have to be the same width ... Sledges might have skids that overlap 1 and 2 and 5 and 6, for example.

Such a sledge would seem suitably for heavier loads.

The "caboose" of a sledge train might perform immediate maintenance of the ice road, if experience shows that would be helpful.

(th)

Calliban · 2022-02-23 11:20:09

A pure ice roadway would be problematic under ambient Martian conditions, as exposed ice would rapidly sublime. We could build the ice road in a covered tunnel or tube, but that would be expensive over any significant distance. Or we could use ice as a sort of adhesive for layers of aggregate, with a layer of interlocking stones as the upper wear surface, with sand between the stones. The ice would be a stable structural material locking the whole assembly together.

What is the functional requirement of the road? We are interested in being able to move people and materials from A to B, as rapidly as practical and with the minimum total infrastructure cost and minimum energy cost. All of the transportation options we have examined are different ways of achieving that trade off. We are interested in dollars per tonne-mile. A road has the advantage that it can be made from relatively raw materials. The gravel, sand and stones already there on the Martian surface. It has a higher friction factor than rail or cable, but still much better than unimproved terrain. Its surface can be strong enough for heavy loads at reasonable speed. On the down side, building a stable road surface for heavy loads, may require processing a lot of material that must be laid, compressed and built up in layers. A railway also requires a compressed, straight and stable surface. But the wear surface is more slender and better controlled. But you need steel rails and sleepers that won't crumble under concentrated load as the rail flexes over them.

tahanson43206 · 2022-02-23 11:34:19

For Calliban re #4

Thank you for your confirmation that a covering for the ice road would be needed on Mars.

Since this topic is about Ice Roadway, and is NOT about any competitive road designs that may be on offer, we will concentrate here on collecting the knowledge, experience, insight and tips that a future ice road builder is going to need, regardless of the location.

On Earth, ice roads are in daily use in permanently iced locations, and in use for months at a time in regions that experience subzero temperatures. It has been reported in this forum, on more than one occasion, that ice roads can be traveled conveniently by wheeled vehicles, and that might well turn out to be the case on Mars and elsewhere.

However, for pure simplicity and ease of maintenance, a ski on a sled is hard to beat.

It is even possible to imagine a crawler "engine" for a train of carts or sledges. Humans have long shown the ability to operate crawler equipped machines on Earth in ice covered terrain.

***
Picking up on the thought of Mars conditions a bit more ...

A "concrete" mix of water and Martian dust might well have interesting properties.

Such a mixture would not (of course) be suitable for sleds, but it (presumably) would be excellent for wheeled vehicles if wheels that operate reliably on Mars can be invented.

This topic is hereby opened to presentation of reports of wheels suitable for operation on ice roads on Mars.

The fact they will roll just as well on non-ice roads is beside the point.

Within the scope of this topic is collection of knowledge, etc about vehicles able to negotiate ice roads.

(th)

Calliban · 2022-02-23 13:29:50

There are parts of Mars, I.e. near the poles, where ice is stable at the low ambient pressure. Ice roads will not be stable everywhere. One would expect different solutions for different local environments. Much the same as here on Earth. In Canada, trucks sometimes traverse frozen lakes. No one would dare pull that one further south.

tahanson43206 · 2022-02-23 13:45:10

For Calliban re #6

Thanks for this (to me important) reminder that conditions near the poles may be permanently suitable for ice roads.

That situation would seem (to me at least) propitious for harvesting of ice chunks/debris and carting it away from the poles to regions more hospitable for settlement.

The reminder of Canadian ice roads over lakes is especially meaningful to those of us in the states who are ? beneficiaries ? of the Weather Channel Ice Road offerings on cable television. In recent times the focus has been on the challenges facing Road Emergency crews in Canada. In any case, I'll bet the Ice Road episodes are available on the Internet, if anyone is interested.

It would be in order for the links to those episodes to be posted in this topic, if a member runs across them.

In thinking about the challenges of shipping ice from the poles to the equatorial regions, it occurs to me that a shipper might evaluate options depending upon the terrain. A downslope might tempt the shipper to use sleds designed to maintain course, and the "roadway" might itself be shaped like a bobsled run to facilitate safe travel at the high speeds likely. That might be an interesting job for a human, if robots can't handle it for some reason.

Lifting up slope might be best handled by an aerial cableway as you've described in the Aerial Ropeway topic.

Other regions might best be served by a hybrid ice/sand/gravel roadbed, and finally the all regolith roadbed you've described elsewhere might seem most efficient.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-04-20 04:04:58

The Ice road the common Human-made structure in Canada or Russia or Antarctica

That sinking feeling: Are ice roads holding up under January's unseasonable warmth?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 … 134723.htm

Vital winter ice road infrastructure may be cracking and sinking under the load of an unseasonably warm start to the new year across Europe and North America, a trend York University Associate Professor Sapna Sharma and team have detailed in a recent study.
The research warns that ice roads, essential for moving people, food, medicine and fuel in remote northern communities, as well as heavy machinery used by industry, may become unsustainable as the climate warms.
This poses significant issues this century.

Limitations of Gold’s formula for predicting ice thickness requirements for heavy equipment
https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/full/10.1 … -2022-0464

Hellas Basin some of the unique places on Mars the Planitia where it can be deeper than Everest is high and much thicker atmopshere, there just maybe exist conditions for liquid water

from way back in 2001

'Use of spacecraft data to derive regions on Mars where liquid water would be stable'
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.031581098

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#1 2022-02-23 08:11:29

Ice Roadway on Mars

#2 2022-02-23 09:56:08

Re: Ice Roadway on Mars

#3 2022-02-23 10:52:45

Re: Ice Roadway on Mars

#4 2022-02-23 11:20:09

Re: Ice Roadway on Mars

#5 2022-02-23 11:34:19

Re: Ice Roadway on Mars

#6 2022-02-23 13:29:50

Re: Ice Roadway on Mars

#7 2022-02-23 13:45:10

Re: Ice Roadway on Mars

#8 2024-04-20 04:04:58

Re: Ice Roadway on Mars

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