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#1 2022-02-22 07:13:31

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,143

Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

Large Ship Prime is: Large scale colonization ship by RobertDyck

This topic is offered as a way to consolidate posts about food preparation and delivery in the Large Ship.

Posts entered into this topic will (hopefully) remain on topic, so that a future Large Ship planner can focus upon the topic.

(th)

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#2 2022-02-22 20:27:52

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

I hope the posts from the topic is a good start

post 440

RobertDyck wrote:

One food that will be available on the ship will be starch pudding. When I first posted about this years ago, I called it pea poi. Inspired by the Hawaiian food poi, but made from pea starch, not taro. Just pea starch dissolved in water, traditional bread yeast, ferment for 3 days, then cook in a microwave oven. White and translucent with the consistency of pudding, flavour and aroma of freshly baked bread. Yes, I bought some pea starch and tried it. Experimented with cooking protocol to get consistency right. Yeast will add protein, lipids, and all the B vitamins except B-12. Mostly carbohydrate, think of it as mashed potatoes without butter or milk.

Yeast also requires 1/8 teaspoon yeast nutrient per litre of starch pudding. That's diammonium phosphate: nitrogen and phosphate in a form yeast can metabolize. Nitrogen is required for protein, while DNA requires both nitrogen and phosphate. Yeast nutrient is used to produce wine; you can get it in any store that sells supplies for homemade wine. Bring a supply of that, mass leverage is quite extreme.

The ship also has greenhouses. Will produce salad and vegetables. Aquaponics will also produce tilapia, so fresh fish. Stored food can be stretched greatly!

The bar will be configured as a brew pub. So stainless steel fermentation tanks behind a window behind the bar. Starch from life support can be broken down to sugar with gamma amylase. Human digestive enzymes contains alpha amylase; it breaks down starch and other complex carbohydrates into sugar. Saliva amylase (together with stomach acid) produces malt, pancreatic amylase produces glucose. Beta amylase is produced by grain seeds; breaking down starch to sugar to feed the plant embryo. Beer production grows some barley seeds to sprouts, then kills the sprouts with hot water and uses the amylase to break down starch in unsprouted grain to produce malt. Ferment malt to make beer. There's a type of mould that grows on fruit; it produces gamma amylase. That breaks down starch and carbohydrates into glucose. So we can grow that mould on some starch to make gamma amylase, then use the amylase to break down starch into sugar for fermentation. Distill that, dilute with pure water, the result is called vodka. So even under emergency conditions, the bar will still have an inexhaustible supply of vodka.

My girlfriend suggested we malt peas. Since we're producing pea starch. I found this paper on pea amylase... Characterization of α-Amylase from Shoots and Cotyledons of Pea (Pisum sativum L.) Seedlings
So the idea is to grow pea sprouts, then extract amylase to convert starch to sugar, just like the beer or whisky process does with barley sprouts. That means no need for mould. Pea vodka!


I didn't leave any time between shifts for clean-up or set-up, because servers will "bus" tables continuously, and regular dining rooms will be buffet style. Only fine dining will have table waiters. Without changing tables or chairs, no tablecloths, diners pick up their own place setting from the buffet table, that means staff only have to change the food service trays. I'm thinking of a buffet in my city called Royal Fork. It has a large dining room, separated by a half-wall. The larger section can have two parts closed off with portable walls to create private rooms.

o.jpg

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2402-rattlersden

Our ship would have a large dining room with 300 seats. Two areas could be separated with portable walls (operable wall partitions) to form private rooms. And two physically separate dining rooms with 50 seats each. So total of 400 seats, plus fine dining. One of the separate dining rooms will have a bar attached. The bar will have fermentation vats to make booze enroute.

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#3 2022-02-22 20:31:03

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

Cooks meal prep is related to the size of the kitchen and equipment to make use of each time you are preparing the meals. Which is why menus of what gets made each day needs to account for the usage of each piece of cooking equipment and cooking times.
While there is a large ship space is still a commodity that should not be wasted just because you think more space to move around is needed.

This large ship is more akin to how a submarine handles its crews and meals.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita … submarine/
https://www.uboat.net/men/foodstuffs.htm

Maybe a bit out dated but there is still info to be had from it...

Example of a food stored on a Type IXC boat (12 weeks)

494 lbs. fresh and cooked meats
238 lbs. sausages
4,808 lbs. preserved/tinned meats
334 lbs. preserved fish
3,858 lbs. potatoes
397 lbs. dried potatoes
3,428 lbs. other vegetables
1,226 lbs. bread dough
2,058 lbs. preserved breads
463 lbs. rice and noodles
595 lbs. fresh eggs
917 lbs. fresh lemons
2,365 lbs. other fruits
551 lbs. butter and margarine
611 lbs. soup ingredients
408 lbs. marmalade and honey
309 lbs. fresh and preserved cheese
1,728 lbs. milk
441 lbs. fruits juices
154 lbs. coffee
205 lbs. other drinks
441 lbs. sugar
132 lbs. salt
108 lbs. chocolates

main-qimg-3e192c02b4832eebc601617ec7db4cc0-c
Los Angeles (688) class

Miracle is how the cooks did it in a tiny space about 8 feet by 4 feet. Out of this space came four meals a day (breakfast, lunch, supper, and midnight aka mid-rats for about 80 guys.

Of course there will be deviations as well as different cooking appliances to make use of as well as for refrigeration that keeps it all good for the duration.

It's all about morale, which is very important on submarines. A major component of good morale in all navies is the food, and this is particularly true on submarines.

Welcome to Submarine 101!

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/culin … st-3345791

Culinary Specialists are vital in maintaining crew morale on all Navy ships, submarines and shore bases. The CS (Surface) and CSS (Submarine) ratings both carry a 60-month service obligation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cooking/commen … df_inside/

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/food-preparatio … /cooks.htm

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#4 2022-02-22 20:35:57

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

RobertDyck wrote:

Or there's home made potato chips. (British call them crisps.) Fresh raw potatoes cut with a "Mandolin" vegetable slicer. This creates chips. "Par cook" them by boiling; just until they become translucent but still quite firm. I found you do have to "paint" them with a little vegetable oil. Sprinkle salt before baking. This results in plain potato chips; you can cook flavours. For salt and vinegar, when you boil use a 50/50 mixture of water and vinegar, and dissolve salt in the water. You will still have to sprinkle salt before baking. If you want it to be more Mars relevant, use sea salt. This simulates salt made from Mars soil.

For dill pickle flavour, crush 1 clove of garlic and boil dill (aka dill weed) in the water/vinegar/salt mixture first to extract the flavour. Then boil sliced potatoes in that. Bake them in the oven, and sprinkle salt when they come out.

Another flavour: red current. My idea. smile Again stuff we can grow in a greenhouse on Mars. Add fresh red currents to water with a little salt, no vinegar. Or dehydrated red currents; they will have to be simmered longer to rehydrate and steep the flavour out. Red currents are a tart, sour berry high in vitamin C. You can use black currents, but they aren't as tart. Sprinkle a little salt before baking. An alternative is chilli powder; still add salt to the water, but instead of salting the chips before baking, sprinkle with chilli powder.

However, I don't envision potatoes grown on the ship. The question is whether we can make stuff with pea starch to replace potatoes? Since the chloroplast oxygen generation system will produce copious quantities of pea starch as a byproduct.

Stored food could be canned, frozen, or dried. Bread can be baked onboard from flour. Pasta can be stored dry. Beans can be dry, not canned. They can be soaked to rehydrate and cooked. Steaks from Earth can be shrink-wrapped and frozen. You want as much as possible dried, to reduce weight.

We should probably have a nutritionist on the team. Here's one suggestion. First, no iceberg lettuce. I've heard from nutritionists that it basically just holds salad dressing, lots of fibre but no nutrition.
Inspiration: How to Make an at Home Salad Bar

  • romaine lettuce

  • raw spinach

  • cherry tomatoes

  • sliced bell peppers (green & red)

  • sliced cucumber

  • grated carrots

  • snap peas (stringless)

  • green beans

  • strawberry

  • green onion

  • bean sprouts

  • broccoli

Croutons can be made from bread baked on the ship from flour brought from Mars.
Some canned, dried, frozen or refrigerated food brought from Mars:

  • black olives

  • onions - spanish, red

  • chickpeas

  • black beans

  • kidney beans

  • dried cranberries

  • raisins

  • sesame seeds

  • sun-dried tomatoes (Well, greenhouse dried, with a fan?)

Trees will take some time to establish in greenhouses on Mars. Once established, we could add: sliced almonds, dehydrated apple slices, pistachios, pecans.

16 Vegan salad dressing recipes
Trying to avoid dressing with mayonnaise or dairy.

  • Catalina

  • Lemon poppy seed

  • Cherry tomato

  • Maple mustard

  • Greek

  • Olive oil

  • Balsamic vinegar

If we grow agave on Mars, we could add Carrot Ginger, Tangy Miso, and Balsamic Vinaigrette dressing.
Artificial maple extract can be made with vanilla extract, fenugreek seeds, and vodka. Vanilla extract with real vanilla bean and vodka. Maple syrup with artificial maple extract, brown or yellow sugar, and hot water. The extracts and sugar brought from Mars.

Mushrooms can be grown in compost. White mushrooms require growth medium with high nitrogen; most websites recommend a 50:50 mix of compost with horse manure. The mushroom farm a couple km from my house uses composted chicken manure. When the wind blows the wrong way... Shall we say not on the ship? Button mushrooms are another name for white mushrooms. Portobello mushrooms are white mushrooms simply allowed to grow to maturity. Cremini/crimini is actually also the same species. However, Oyster mushrooms grow on straw, sawdust, coffee grounds, other agricultural waste; we could grow them.

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#5 2022-02-22 20:42:24

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

Something for a page ago on food crops to grow both on this ship but on Mars as well in crops. 26 Plants You Should Always Grow Side-By-SideBB139n8q.img?h=399&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

These combinations of plants do way better, together:

Roses and Garlic
Gardeners have been planting garlic with roses for eons since the bulbs can help to repel rose pests. Garlic chives are probably just as repellent, and their small purple or white flowers in late spring look great with rose flowers and foliage.

Marigolds and Melons
Certain marigold varieties control nematodes in the roots of melon without using chemical treatments.

Tomatoes and Cabbage
Tomatoes repel diamondback moth larvae, which can chew large holes in cabbage leaves.

Cucumbers and Nasturtiums
The nasturtium's vining stems make them a great companion rambling among your growing cucumbers and squash plants, suggests Sally Jean Cunningham, master gardener and author of Great Garden Companions>>>P. Nasturtiums reputedly repel cucumber beetles, but they can also serve as a habitat for predatory insects like spiders and ground beetles.

Peppers and Pigweed
Leafminers preferred both pigweed (also called amaranthus) and ragweed to pepper plants in a study at the Coastal Plains Experiment Station in Tifton, Georgia. Just be careful to remove the flowers before the weeds set seed.

Cabbage and Dill
"Dill is a great companion for cabbage family plants, such as broccoli and brussels sprouts," Cunningham says. The cabbages support the floppy dill, while the dill attracts the helpful wasps that control cabbage worms and other pests.

Corn and Beans
The beans attract beneficial insects that prey on corn pests such as leafhoppers, fall armyworms, and leaf beetles. The vines can also climb up the corn stalks.

Lettuce and Tall Flowers
Nicotiana (flowering tobacco) and cleome (spider flower) give lettuce the light shade it grows best in.

Radishes and Spinach
Planting radishes among your spinach will draw leafminers away from the healthy greens>>>P. The damage the leafminers do to radish leaves doesn't prevent the radishes from growing nicely underground.

Potatoes and Sweet Alyssum
The sweet alyssum has tiny flowers that attract delicate beneficial insects>>>P, such as predatory wasps. Plant sweet alyssum alongside bushy crops like potatoes>>>P, or let it spread to form a living ground cover under arching plants like broccoli. Bonus: The alyssum's sweet fragrance will scent your garden all summe longr.

Cauliflower and Dwarf Zinnias
The nectar from the dwarf zinnias lures ladybugs and other predators that help protect cauliflower>>>P.

Collards and Catnip
Studies have found that planting catnip alongside collards reduces flea-beetle damage on the collards. The fragrant plant may also help repel mosquitoes>>>P.

Strawberries and Love-In-A-Mist
Tall, blue-flowered love-in-a-mist (Nigella damascena)"looks wonderful planted in the center of a wide row of strawberries," Cunningham says.

Flowering plants do more than look good....

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#6 2022-02-22 20:54:25

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,143

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

For SpaceNut re posts in new topic! Thanks for giving this new topic a terrific start!

This is exactly what i was hoping for!  A person wanting to study this topic will be off to a great start with your posts.

The reminder of submarine cooking as important for morale included mention of a five year commitment for a person who accepts the rating. 

(th)

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#7 2022-02-22 21:19:36

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

Fast growing crops for salads are a must and one of the main items is as follows

RobertDyck wrote:

From one company... Growing Lettuce in a Vertical Farm: All You Need to Know
This is an article by Vertical Farming Planet about a Minnesota company called Lettuce Abound Farms. Video from September 2019, but the website for the farm says they no longer grow lettuce, now they grow hemp seed, but the technology is valid. This is vertical farming, and aeroponics. The video in the article is also available directly on YouTube here... (click image) 2:32 running time
Aeroponics640.jpg
The article talks about fluorescent lighting. Again, I want to use ambient light. But the ship is in space, so it's a little different. Lettuce doesn't require full sun, so we can diffuse the light. A Fresnel in the ceiling over the lettuce farm can focus light on the walkway between vertical panels, and a diffuser between the walls of lettuce can spread the light out. Each panel is slightly angled, not perfectly vertical. Behind the wall is a sprayer that sprays nutrient solution on the roots. Water that drips down is caught in a tray/tub at the bottom, the spray head re-sprays it. Sunlight in space is brighter than the brightest day on Earth. Light in Mars orbit is 47% as intense as Earth orbit, but Earth orbit is roughly twice as bright as "full sun" on Earth's surface. Depending what you call "full sun". Oxygen, nitrogen, and water (humidity) in Earth's atmosphere blocks a lot, even on a bright sunny day with no clouds or haze. So this works even in Mars orbit. Note the vertical wall is not too high, a man can pick the top leaves with his hands when standing on the floor.

How to Grow Hydroponic Lettuce: Instructions and Plant Care Tips

Sizing: assume 2 ounces of lettuce consumed per person per day. Salad offered lunch and supper, but not everyone will consume salad every meal. Design for 1200 people onboard, so we have a little extra in case of trouble. So 2400 ounces lettuce per day. Weight of a head of romaine lettuce varies, 1 to 1.5 pounds. Let's use 1.25 pounds or 20oz. So we need 120 heads per day. There are two steps. First plant seeds in a plug, with plugs closely placed in a plug tray. After 2 to 3 weeks, transplant (move the plugs) to the growing system. Only 75% of the plugs will develop. Romaine lettuce is ready to harvest in 3 to 4 weeks. So 6 weeks from planting seed to harvest. To harvest 120 heads to per day, with 28 days in the system, we'll need 3360 slots. With 14 days in plug trays and only 75% viable, we'll need 2240 plugs. Looking at the video, rows are 7" apart so 8 rows high are 5' 1.6". With a hexagonal pattern, slots are 8" apart horizontally. So the growing system sheet is 32" wide (2' 8"). With 8 x 4 = 32 slots per sheet, the we need 105 sheets. Not all heads will develop, so 112 sheets? With 2 sides to a growing system, and 4 rows of growing systems, that's 14 sections long. They have two sheets high, but the ship will use diffused sunlight, not fluorescent. We could do 2 sheets high in Earth orbit, or 1 in Mars orbit. Eh, just design for 1 sheet high. The video looks like each row is only 3 feet wide, total. Very narrow gap between vertical growing sheets. They must use a crane of some sort to pull a sheet out for harvest. If we give enough room to walk, say 2' wide including plant leaves, and 30" wide corridor (2.5 feet, width of a door) so a worker can walk. Just harvest with the sheets in place. So 4.5' x 4 = 18' wide, plus walking space on other side so 20.5' wide. With 14 sections @ 32" width = 448" = 37' 4". In metric that's 6.25 metres wide x 11.38 metres long.

Light diffuser in the corridor between green walls would have to be lifted up out of the way when a worker is working.

Plug trays: the plugs in the video appear to be 1.5" x 1.5". The tray would have to be a bit bigger. Say 1.968" square, which is 5cm x 5cm. If trays hold 10 plugs deep by 16 wide, then each tray is 50cm x 80cm. For 2240 plugs we would need 14 trays. With 2 trays high we would need 7 long, so 5.6 metres. Trays could be along the growing system, and angled so light from the outside diffuser on one side would illuminate the trays. That's roughly half the length of the growing system. The remaining length could be a work table. Add 0.5 metre width for the trays, so we're now talking 6.75m x 11.38m. That's quite compact.

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#8 2022-02-22 21:20:22

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

Some people like the fruit salads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_salad
There are so many varieties to picture and then you can add cream, or whip topping, or yogurt to the mix as well as pudding.
image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.onecms.io%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F43%2F2020%2F07%2F22%2F2289556.jpg

Original recipe yields 10 servings
Ingredient Checklist

    ⅔ cup fresh orange juice
    ⅓ cup fresh lemon juice
    ⅓ cup packed brown sugar
    ½ teaspoon grated orange zest
    ½ teaspoon grated lemon zest
    1 teaspoon vanilla extract
    2 cups cubed fresh pineapple
    2 cups strawberries, hulled and sliced
    3 kiwi fruit, peeled and sliced
    3 bananas, sliced
    2 oranges, peeled and sectioned
    1 cup seedless grapes
    2 cups blueberries

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#9 2023-06-28 19:36:10

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

cOOKING FOR THE CREW OF THIS LARGE SHIP WILL REQUIRE SAVING OF RESOURCES SUCH AS THIS PROPOSES.

Calliban wrote:

This article discusses a community based cooking scheme in the Netherlands.  The guiding idea is that cooking is more efficient when centralized, i.e. cooking for hundreds of people uses far less energy per capita than cooking for one person.
https://www.humanpowerplant.be/2020/06/the-fire.html

The Dutch concept burns biomass in a centralized community cooker to produce all of the cooked food for a community.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-temperature_cooking

The idea of low temperature cooking does not seem to have occurred to them.  This involves slowly cooking at temperatures <100C, often over a period of days.  Meats can be safely cooked at temperatures above 68C, which kills bacteria.  Vegetables require temperatures of around 80C to soften.  Temperatures in this range could be achieved using heat pumps with COP around 3.  There are crystalline paraffin waxes that melt between 70-85C, which could function as phase change materials, storing large quantities of heat at specific temperatures.

A community equipped with a centralized low-temperature cooker could therefore cook using intermittent energy, provided by electricity, mechanical power or concentrated solar heat.  A large cooker could be insulated by housing it in a deep pit, which would allow it to remain at constant temperature for many months without additional heating.  This is definitely something that individual towns or city districts could build.  But it requires that citizens cooperate and pool resources into developing community infrastructure.

If European countries lose access to natural gas and reliable electricity, low temperature community cooking is something we could use at a district level.  The heat pump supplying the heat could be a positive displacement compressor, directly driven by a wind turbine shaft.  Such a device could be mechanically very simple.  It is even possible to imagine arrangements where a single heat pump provides cooling to a community freezer at -20C and heat to a low temperature cooker at 80C.

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#10 2023-07-10 05:38:16

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,852
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Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

My girlfriend suggested the dining rooms on the ship be run as a cafeteria instead of a buffet. The reason is to reduce food waste. A buffet has trays of food and diners can help themselves. With a cafeteria there are no waiters, but food is prepackaged in individual portions. We have to ensure containers are washable and reusable, not disposable. But an individual can pick up a plate or tray that already has an entire meal for one served on that plate. So if 300 people are expected to dine that shift for that meal in that dining room, then 300 individual meals will be available.

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#11 2023-07-10 06:10:17

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,143

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

For RobertDyck re #10

Thanks for introducing your friend with this excellent suggestion!

The human race has quite a bit of experience caring for large groups of people over extended periods, using the cafeteria model!

It ** should ** (no guarantees) appeal to your funders as a sensible, understandable solution to a requirement for success in the venture.

I note that Navy vet kbd512 has spoken often and at some length about how food is managed on a large ship.

Bravo!

(th)

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#12 2023-07-10 07:50:46

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,852
Website

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

tahanson43206, realize kbd512 is a Navy vet and keeps talking about how an American aircraft carrier is run. Some of what he says is very applicable, other things not. My girlfriend is a cook and going through professional food handling certification right now. She is divorced, after the divorce had cared for her senior citizen father until he had to be moved to a long-term care home, so is re-entering the workforce. Another friend was a professional chef, certified as a professional chef and head chef for a chain of restaurants in Canada. I knew him while he was still chef. He "retired" in his 30s, but founded the local comic con, although now defunct, and established a comic and collectibles store that he still runs. Our large ship will be a passenger ship, not a navy vessel. There are differences. Again, much of what Brian says is very applicable, but not everything.

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#13 2023-07-10 08:06:40

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,143

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

For RobertDyck re #12

It is good to see you beginning to return to the major project you have undertaken, after a well earned rest.

There is a statistical chance that you might live to 115.  That is currently the upper range of what the human genome is (apparently) capable of achieving.

What this means to me is that you have the opportunity to rewrite parts of your brain with knowledge, skills and insights necessary to lead a grand enterprise.

For some time, you have (apparently) entertained the notion that if you just had money to offer, you could persuade people to perform all the tasks that must be completed to put Large Ship on a path to Mars.

There are countless (many) examples of human leadership over the millennia that achieved success in leadership without trading actual property as an inducement.  The vision you offer is one that has attracted human interest and activity in the past, and similar ones are currently inspiring great effort around the world.  Winston Churchill led his Nation through World War II without paying anyone a penny.  He did it ** all ** with well chosen words.

The challenge you have given yourself is of comparable magnitude.

The people you enlist to help will do the work that needs to be done, whatever it might be.

You have a collection of raw material to work with, saved in the NewMars archive as well as your other repositories.

You are welcome to continue developing and practicing your message here, in a (somewhat) supportive environment.

(th)

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#14 2023-07-10 10:45:13

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 9,774

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

I often wrote and thought about testing a Biosphere animal ship before the human mission. I think people do not like the idea of animals maybe because it is less politically correct or maybe it is seen as going backwards,  the Soviet Laika The First Space Dog, Miss Baker, a squirrel monkey, rode a Jupiter IRBM, Ham, a chimpanzee, became the first great ape in space, it was reported that China with early 'Shenzhou' before their manned Chinese space flights tested mice, and small aquatic and terrestrial organisms. One might not need to land such an organic ship on Mars, maybe they could test with animals in orbit and robots landing and making a farm.  It might not look good having animals and AI humanoid robots go to Mars first but it is a risk free way of testing what is going to happen the human ship mission. I think it would be a good advert for a Pet company an Automatic Feeders, Tested and Reviewed all the way to Mars and back. India is planning manned missions but there is Hindu Religious and Political influence and maybe a conflict with animals used in this way.


It would be a idea to have a 'garden' en route to Mars. I have seen very interesting stuff about cooking, the consumer of food and drink at the South Pole, the important Chefs connected to big projects and kitchens get huge delivery and keep their stocks updated with massive shipment of supplies. However the other people on many of the bases in Antarctica get 'creative' with their food, very often food down there may be expired, but it's edible! Many in videos discussed the type of long term Apocalypse Doomsday foods one might store in Your Pantry or 'Bunker' Fruit in a Tin, Candy and Chocolates covered in Sugars, Dried Beans, Dehydrated Foods, Army Package read to eat Marine survival stuff, Dried Peas and Lentils, after the maple syrup has crystallized it is still edible, dried noodles, Bouillon Soup Cubes, canned Spam Fish Meats, 10 year old Rice the type with Low susceptibility to oxidation, Air-Tight Oats, Dried Pasta. Some risk with foods will be far worse than others anything with Eggs is typically dangerous, since they may contain salmonella which multiplies over time. The expiration date or expiry date is a determined date after which something should no longer be used, term the term 'Best Before' is often applied to products that may deteriorate slightly in quality for example canned goods On most of the bases with film at the South Pole they eat canned goods even if they are many, many years out of date. In areas where the Euro currency is used they now pass Laws for EU food quality dates. Hong Kong Law states there must be classification on prepackaged food which from the microbiological point of view is highly perishable and is therefore likely after a short period to constitute an immediate danger to human health. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency produces a Guide to Food Labeling which sets out a "Durable Life Date" authority https://inspection.canada.ca/food-label … 3607344939 the guide comes from the Food and Drugs Act. Booze does have a 'Fresh Date' the drink of Beer is not legally mandated in the United States to have a true shelf life, freshness dates serve much the same purpose and used more as a marketing tool.

Studying Food Health, why someone is unhealthy too Fat too Thin, there have been many studies of Food Reward and Motivation in Humans. One group of fighters in a 'War Zone' might have better morale simply because of 'Foods'. Sometimes in past civilization people literally put stuff outside in the ice and dirt, on Earth ancestors who hunted and built towns and writing and 'civilization' also stored foods they had grow, maybe food and seed can be grown en-route and offworld could improvised 'Refrigeration' also take place on Mars. In our old times humans have been involved in the storage of foods by smoking, curing via salting and drying, and they made use of natural coolness in caves, root cellars, a plant giving seeds on Earth can become more crops which can later be stored in the ice of the Tundra.

there have been vids and discussions of food in the South Pole 'Analogue' threads

'What Do You Eat in Antarctica?'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzlA9HDNwBs

They planned for 1 million meals 18 months in advance, the even learn lessons from past failures and exploration, a British Royal Navy officer Robert Falcon Scott.
throw spices and cheese on leftovers? a Bakery with 4 Bakers
Pizza making 18 thousand fresh McMurdo Pizzas per year.
even at a well supplied restaurant at McMurdo Station they might be eating expired foods, food arrives frozen and is thawed, it is also 'recycled'. Outisde the man station, the field sites stock up and pick up crackers, peanut butter, chips, sweet chocolate bars, a food product expiration date is mostly ignored.

Even at the South Pole away from Sunlight, they can keep a healthy body and mind, discuss how to make better foods and get the balance right? At the South Pole you have easy access to Air and Frozen Water, carbohydrates, proteins, fats, vitamins, minerals, fibre and forzen ice easily made into liquid water. Average Adults 1,600 to 3,000 Calories per day and 3,200 to 5,000 Calories for someone working outside in the field. Carbs quick and efficient energy for movement, Rice, Pasta, Fruit, honey, biscuits, the eating of Fibre  veg, nuts, cereals, keeps good bowel function and healthy digestion also bread and certain fruit, the consumption of Vitamins and Minerals, bones stay healthy, fighting disease, nervous system, red blood cells, immune system, good metabolism, Proteins skin repair, protein for growth and efficient' body tissue maintenance, fish, dairy, lentils, seeds, meats, 'Fats' slow energy release cheese, meats, cream, slows down heat loss on the human body, and Water' not as important as breathing 'Air' but you are dead without it. On Mars access to water is more difficult but the Gravity Lower so perhaps less Calories burning? People will have their own unique body features, some might eat some foods better, Metabolism the process involved in the generation of energy and all the ‘building blocks’ required to maintain the body, healthy foods will also provide energy for a working mind.

Animals have been put into Space by USA, Russia/USSR, France, China, ESA, Japan, with primary emphasis on the problems of micro-gravity and radiation effects on human beings without risk to the human person. Bion Soviet Russian satellites or Biocosmos were a series of Soviet biosatellites focused on space medicine. Today we might one today 3-D print low tech parts on the Moon and we might start using Wooden satellites launched from Earth. If you launched a Biosphere without humans to Mars but animals and AI humanoid Robots to take care of the animals and building a Biosphere farm on the surface, certain 'pets' or Livestock or Animals may experience hearing or vision loss, skin and coat changes naturally even without the stress of space travel. NASA and Russia have decades long data on space travel, ESA have launched organic payloads for pure experiments in fluid physics, biology, material science, meteoritics, radiation dosimetry and exobiology, one experiment tested the ability of lichen to survive in space and successful, as the lichen survived over 14 days of exposure to space. After having a Biosphere experiment orbit Mars and return to Earth you would see how health such animals were and have projections of how many supplies are needed to start your farm inside a Biodome on the surface, sending some kind of Pet or Livestock or 'guinea pig' Mars first might not be the win the public wants with their taxes but it would be the safer more secure option while at the same time pushing science forward and being adventurous. The Farm animal will have its Robot Nanny to act as a 'Doctor' the Vet might be also ready to be a Doctor for the humans to come but first duty for the robot is a Timed Auto Pet Socializer & Food Dispenser. A space product will have bragging rights, even in space it is able to give right amount of food on time, every time, with the Feeder-Robotic AI master, the auto pet feeder that allows you to set portion-controlled meal schedules even if you go to the Planet Mars and back.

a ship with many humans and Artificial Gravity will have a person burn more calories but Artificial Gravity will also keep people going to Mars in healthy condition. Lower Gravity or Zero Gravity can increase risks for space motion sickness (SMS), increased risk of visual impairment / intracranial pressures, induced cancers, Urinary tract infections, Hearing sensitivity issues, sight issues, bone strength loss and musculoskeletal response, higher levels of Orthostatic Intolerance, immune system weakness, loss of blood plasma volume there are some differences between the Men and Women in Spaceflight, no attempt has yet to be made in the creation of an Artificial Gravity Ship or Station.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-07-10 11:47:30)

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#15 2024-03-09 15:33:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

I tried the perfect space meal for astronauts, and it was surprisingly flavorful and easy to make


BB1hKlSP.img?w=768&h=576&m=6

Space salad

You'll need:

642 grams of sweet potato (about 5 small potatoes)

223 grams of pearled barley (about 1 cup)

155 grams of poppy seeds

79 grams of kale

63 grams of soybeans

25 grams of peanuts

18 grams of sunflower seeds

An astronaut would ideally eat this meal once a week as part of a rotation of dishes


To that end, an international team of scientists calculated 10 different combinations of crops that could be grown on deep-space missions and published their results in the American Chemical Society's peer-reviewed journal Food Science & Technology.

In their study, the researchers considered an astronaut's nutritional needs, how much space the crops would take up, and also the amount of water each plant requires.

https://ift.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi … 10.01982.x

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#16 2024-03-09 16:52:07

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,310

Re: Large Ship Food Preparation and Delivery

The Menu for Mars: Designing a Deep Space Food System

https://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/spa … enus-mars/

https://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/spa … food-mars/

NASA needs 3 years of meals for Mars-bound astronauts

Spaghetti and Tacos: These Foods Are on the Menu on Mars

eating pre-packaged meals for weeks on end can become incredibly boring, so Douglas tries to create meals that are not only shelf-stable, but also varied and tasty.  food for space missions was freeze-dried to prevent spoilage and food poisoning. All you had to do was add hot water. Foods that couldn't be freeze-dried were thermostabilized—packaged and steamed under pressure to destroy any harmful bacteria. This worked for missions averaging twelve months, but it won't be enough for a Mars trip, since blasting food with heat years before it's eaten can lower the nutritional quality and compromise taste.

tumblr_inline_ozrw6ogezu1tzhl5u_1280.jpg

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