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#201 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-07 12:41:07

I say this because, as far as I know, "united" means we act toghether to help one in danger

The list of federal powers is short and specific. Providing taxpayer funds to states to levee-up ill-placed cities is not on the list.

You don't share the safe levees cost
Bright strategy
But now you share the disaster cost
CC, you are a genious !

#202 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-07 12:33:51

Unfortunately a great many Americans today believe in the depths of their souls that for any problem, government is the answer. They will ruin us.

Not any problem, but what did destroy New Orleans as well as what destroyed the Twins where under government responsability. That shouldn't have happened.
Saying that levees should have been under own individual responsability is another "bêtise".
Saying this is cold condemnation to death for the weaks.

The list of federal powers is short and specific. Providing taxpayer funds to states to levee-up ill-placed cities is not on the list.

Are you a United States Of America citizen, or do you intend to treat New Orleans as a foreign country and its residents just as iraq insurgents ?

Did you really understand what means "United States of America ?

#203 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-09-06 06:04:34

What are the chances Pres. Bush will begin more actively/quickly pulling troops out of Iraq in order to cut costs and buoy up greater $$ for Katrina relief/rebuild efforts?  He wanted to stay another 2 years, perhaps even 4 (can't recall which...brain pan a bit low today) in Iraq.

Considering the enormous costs of both combined...something's got to give.  U.S. wealth isn't inexhaustible.

Troops home sooner than anticipated?  I'd be surprised if not...but I've been surprised before. 

--Cindy

LO
I think there will be much more money spent for rebuilding oil rigs than for that all the New Orleans miserables, all which couldn't have an own house  a car, an insurance will be left behind when emotion risen by the catastrophe will will be forgotten.

Guess which companies will get the money ?
little help :"H.......ton" and friends

#204 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-09-05 02:06:29

Some sentences from a french carribean forum site on August 28 2005 at about 03 am

Au mon dieu,le scénario tant redouté pour les states:Katrina est un gros ouragan de classe 5.
Une certaine partie de la région pourrait subir le meme cauchemar que l'ouragan Camille en 1969 qui elle aussi avait atteint la catégorie 5!!
Je pense qu'ils ont bien fait d'évacuer.
Le pire c'est qu'il y a encore un bon nombre de personne dans ces états qui n'ont pas encore pris conscience de l'extrème violence de katrina.
Oh my god, the US such feared scenario: Katrina is a big class 5 hurricane.
Part of the region could suffer the same nighmare as with Camille hurricane which rised to fifth level!!
I think evacuation has been a good decision
Worts is that many in these states are not still aware of katrina's extreme violence

Il ne nous reste plus qu'à souffler des prières de classe 10
pour tous ceux qui en auront besoin dans cette région,
avant, pendant et après la promenade de ce phénomène ...
All we can do now is to blow class 10 prayers
for all those which will need them in this area,
front, during and after of this phenomenon walk...

Do you think that GW or Rumy or Condy watched gulf weather forecasts ?

#205 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-04 08:09:21

LO

British Prime Minister Tony Blair led world leaders' pledges of aid to hurricane-stricken areas of the U.S. Friday with an offer to help "in any way we can.""The whole of this country feels for the people of the Gulf Coast of America" who have been hit "by what is a terrible, terrible natural tragedy," he said.
Blair's comments added to a growing catalog of prayers, messages of condolence and pledges of money and aid that have been offered from countries across the globe in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. France, "determined to show its solidarity with the United States," offered a range of aircraft and two ships, with helicopters and planes capable of airlifting tons of supplies, a disaster unit with 20 soldiers, a civil defense detachment of 35 people and an airborne emergency unit, the French Embassy said. The European Union said it was ready to offer any assistance in the wake of "what is perhaps the greatest civil emergency in U.S. history."But despite the increasingly desperate situation on the ground, the Bush administration has sent mixed signals about whether it will take these global well-wishers up on their offers.
The whitehouse however said that the United States had not requested foreign help and didn't need it.

Except for sharing E.U. gazoline stocks, european help should be largely symbolic in regard of US means if massively mobilized.

New Orleans flooded areas http://www.nasa.gov/mov/126394main_pia04175.mov

#206 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-02 18:37:44

LO

Do you think the emperor of texas used his weather machine to make this happen?

:shock: Not before someone explained him patiently some four days how the machine does work

#207 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-02 18:31:09

LO

It's matter of time, you can't wait the city is safe from criminals, rescuing people is the first emergency

*How can people be rescued when thugs and looters are shooting at rescue helicopters?  There are many hurricane victims who are being held hostage by criminals who have proven they will shoot at attempted rescuers.

Roads from New Orleans Airport to New Orleans were famous the 
world over as one of the most dangerous spot for isolated tourist cars much before the hurricane. The pity is that gangs weren't disbanded long before by police.
I mean that sending there some troops to deter gangs and looting is quite a simple army operation, rescuing being much heavier a task

#208 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-02 09:38:06

Fact is we just don't know enough to sit here and make absolute statements about an immensely complex system from a human-centric standpoint.
I'm all for cutting pollution, I'm just not going to get into a frothing panic about it. We're not all going to die if the average global temperature increases by 1 degree over the next century, and that projection is based on theories based on an incomplete understanding of the system.
I guess such kind of people arguing "frothing panic" didn't take necessary decision to better protect US southern coastal states populations against hurricanes...

You call "frothing panic" calm warnings and when number of countries agree on little efforts on human pollution cuttings, and you seem to support an administration which reluctance on these efforts is strong.
Illogical with "I'm all for cutting pollution"

Better to prepare for the climatic conditions we expect than to pretend we can stop bad weather by driving electric cars.

Why not ? Do you even notice that London has no more smogs ? Why ? Just eliminating coal industries.
In Paris and main world big cities, "good" weather has become synonym for ozon pollution, that would be eliminated with electric cars.


Executing people... You're so fast "quitting rescue effort" and calling for sentences of death, wonder where's your sense of civilization.
How many starving people looting for some food and water to shoot at when main emergency is food and water and medic supply ?

There are violent gangs taking over the streets. Murders and rapes are rampant. My sense of civilization demands that steps be taken to stop the barbarism.

Know who's shooting at relief helicopters? Those same criminal gangs. Know why? Because they don't want relief to get too far because they rule the streets. If some thugs have to get shot before the decent people can receive help, so be it.

It's matter of time, you can't wait the city is safe from criminals, rescuing people is the first emergency, then help them to act as some kind of rebuilding army.
Gang actions are very shocking, but they are a detail about some few hundreds bad guys on which medias and warmonger minded people rush over.

#209 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-09-02 08:03:49

This is all very interesting but can we have some more numbers. 1-2 degrees over 50 years? 50 years is a very long time. And what is an alarming rate for icecap melting? How do we quantify that. P.S. I often wondered how they measure global temperatures. Does anyone know?

By collecting world over meteo stations data, infrared earthsurvey satellite data, plus studies in situ.
http://www.wmo.ch/index-en.html

Actually this is a bad example. The sun will put out more and more heat as it makes its transition into a red giant eventually engulfing the earth in flames. So in the long term there is not a thing we can do about global warming.

I know that, but some centuries are not, astronomically speaking, what we can call long term in regard of billionth of years, and actually, accelatered rise of human activity heath sources and greenhouse gaz is something we should be abble to do something about.

None of which logically leads to the conclusion that human activity is the direct cause

Maybe not THE direct cause, but A powerful direct cause. Scientists can collect datas and calculate how much thermic energy and amounts of greenhouse effects gaz are dissipated by human activities, and how much temperature elevation should rise from all that.

The world has always had climate shifts, even in the very brief flash that is human history things have changed dramatically. We're coming off the tail end of a small ice age, of course it's going to get warmer. If it is the result of the natural climate shifts that have occured for as long as the Earth has existed there's nothing we can do about it.

"there's nothing we can do about it."  Bright stragegy !
Personally, as a free-lance, I wouldn't give any trust to a commander wich doesn't prepare troops to any potential threat. I shall not kneel with him praying for "self-regulations" to occur.

This is completely insane. It's time to quit treating this like a rescue effort and occupy the city.

Don't forget palms, tubas and equipment for water and mudproof transportation systems
Enact martial law  big_smile
Every people with no electricity, TV, radio, will be ease to know that when impossible so spread news...

and start executing anyone that doesn't fall in line. Steal food, executed. Rape, executed. Attack relief workers, executed. None of this "aiding the civil power" nonsense, treating this as a mere crime wave is not gonna cut it.

If we're going to help the people that have remained civilized we're going to have to crush those that have turned to barbarism.

Executing people... You're so fast "quitting rescue effort" and calling for sentences of death, wonder where's your sense of civilization.
How many starving people looting for some food and water to shoot at when main emergency is food and water and medic supply ?

#210 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » cost of space elevator » 2005-08-31 17:09:51

Sooo...should the space elevator be a privately owned operation?

Yes, it should be, because the cost of it is outrageously underestimated.

I visited space elevator promotionnal site and what is not said is that an object tighted from an earth point to a some kind of counterweight orbiting around Earth at about one fourth of the Earth to Moon distance is not a stable object.
Space elevator would be a perfect idea should the cables or ribons be rigid. This is not the case.
Space elevator terminal is summited to Eath-Moon tidal forces twisting the cables or ribbons which are flexibles and tends to exchange energy with Earth and Moon so that its position must be maintained by permanent energy supply by motors.
Energy supply means money. This is not mentionned in the site.

So how can people can evaluate the cost of a today not accessible technology ?
Laser beam energy supply to propell loads is a fantasy. When you know the % of laser energy conversion output, you realize that using doped carbon ribbons in order to make good electricity conductors is much more a cleaver option to supply energy to lift loads.

For these reasons, I can't take the space elevator site as a very serious one, just a new lobby of people trying to collect money as an own aim.

So it would be better that the space elevator promoters should finance it at their own risks

#211 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 11:58:51

The Moon is somewhat cheese-colored, therefore it is made of cheese.
No, you can't just dismiss that conclusion, prove to me that it isn't.

Right, everybody knows that Apollo crews brought back on Earth samples of Camembert instead of moonstones, and that's why Moon conquest was abandonned, as theses samples were much more expensive than french imported cheeses in spite of heavy luxury taxes.
Bright scientifical argument indeed, congratulations, CC  big_smile

If you want to know what I think the singular cause for climate change is. . . it isn't a single cause. The Earth is a complex, self-regualting system. If you look at the history of the planet you find that dramatic climate shifts happen at regular intervals. Even in the absence of human industry. Just for "recent" examples, there is the Medeival Warm Period during which Europe was warmer than today for centuries. It was followed by a mini-ice age, which we've recently come out of. Climate change is a fact of life on Earth, suddenly blaming this particular instance on SUVs and factories doesn't make any sense. It's politically useful and psychologically more fulfilling perhaps, but it's based as much in faith as science.

You can't compare middle ages with nowadays, human population exploded in number and denying human activity impact on Earth is closing eyes in front of realdom.
Anyhow, now, we know that there have been iceballs eras showing that the so-called self regulating system can get out of self regulation limits as a chaotic system in which small causes can bring tremendously big effects.
Therefore, nothing can allow you to say that human activity that you seem to reduce to little causes will not bring dramatic effects.
So, taking care of reducing human possible causes on climate is just wisdom.
And notice that there is nothing politically left-sided in theses arguments.

We now have politicians and reporters alike gleefully harping on the death toll from Iraq.

Back to politics, there is a deadline in Iraq war. If ever the number of US soldiers killed in Iraq should exceed the number of victims of the 9/11, Bush's pretention to protect american people from terrorism will prove to be a total failure, as his action will have brought more US citizens death than terrorists' action.
I can't imagine what would be the US opinion reactions if there happened to be only one terrorist attack on the US soil, but for guys like Bin Laden, no use to try, knowing that, objectively, this administration is the best terrorists recruiting agent.
Did he not publicly enjoyed on Bush's reelection ?

#212 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 07:31:06

Jumping to conclusions isn't scientific. The mere presence of climate change in no way indicates a direct human cause for it.

So, tell me why there is a global temperature rise on earth ?
Termits farts ?  big_smile

I'm waiting for YOUR arguments.

#213 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 07:05:42

None of which logically leads to the conclusion that human activity is the direct cause of the change or that we can reverse it. Hence the "exercise of faith" comment.

Don't you try to reverse the real positions.
None of which ? may be, but if you collect the whole datas, then there are no doubts.
Still you blah blah blah. The faith is on your side, not on the scientific side.
If you cannot demonstrate that solar activity or inner earth radioactivity is on the rise,
or that astronomic conditions are responsible for earth temperature rise, then you have as only argument you stutborn conviction to deny scientific evidences.

#214 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 06:21:38

"Man made global warming" is an exercise in faith, perhaps the fastest growing religion in the world. Like so many other superstitions, making policy based on it will bring misery to many and solve nothing.

I think you mix everything with real poor arguments. That's just blah blah blah.
Faith, superstitions and religions were never based on things like thermometers, lots of scientific measures and satellite earth watching.
By chance we still have a strong public research that doesn't rely on private financements and scientists which are free to say what they want, not what lab sponsors want them to say.

#215 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Space Ring to Stop Global Warming? » 2005-08-31 03:51:13

What could be done is float giant white rafts - a foam ring with a shiny white reflective plastic sheet in the middle - in the ocean. Anchor them out in the middle of the ocean somewhere - most of the life is near the shore. Increasing the Earth's albedo by a percent or two is probably the cheapest way to cool off.

This doesn't seem as a very good idea because what is important is to reduce albedo above :shock:  green house gaz layers, not under.
I just hope that if global warming is a reality, the feed back will simply rely on more evaporation, thus more altitude clouds reducing Earth albedo above the green house layers.

#216 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-31 03:04:14

LO

Actually, the strength and ferocity of hurricanes relies on long-term cycles in the Atlantic; it has nothing to do with global warming. There were lots of strong hurricanes in the 50's-60's and in the 30's too.

As for France, as far as I can tell the storms were 'just' storms, not hurricanes. While the winds and rain are nothing to make light of, actual tropical hurricanes are like no other storms on earth.

The differences between storms and hurricanes are a matter of power, all are depressions with rotative motions, as with water heath, a "tropical" depression can upgrade to a hurricane.
Denying global warming is pure propaganda from industrial trusts to avoid to pay the price for environmental efforts. They don't care of people.
But propaganda can't go against thermodynamic laws that tell that the more temperature rises, the more many and violent hurricanes will be.
How many more deaths and destructions do you want to realize ?
So prepare yourself by building safe concrete windproof and waterflowsproof homes if you don't want to evacuate entire regions, specially in Florida and southern coastal states.

Positive effects of the "Century tempests" which stroke France were to lower here wood ans wooden industry subproducts as wooden composite pannels prices.
New replanted forests growth has been much faster than hoped.
Now, with oil price rise, there are huge stocks of wood that can be burned as an alternative for homes heathing. Anyways, with almost 50% of the french territory covered with forests, and the many nuke power plants, we think that France will suffer less than many other countries from oil price rises, and France economical growth seems to restart.

#217 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Earth's Core » 2005-08-31 02:26:40

LO
I'm glad of that discovery as I wrote five years ago in a astronomy children book that different speed core spinning should be responsible for earth magnetism, and that cyclic cinetic energy exchanges between inner solid core and liquid metallic crusts surrounding it should be responsible for magnetic polar inversions.  big_smile
This is still to verify.

#218 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-30 17:50:43

Well, the warming of the gulf was caused by a slowing down of the winds which is different then climate change. I do think though that more should be done to reduce the use of fossil fuels but I don’t think that fears of climate change alone are enough reason to do so.

What about last year hurricanes ?
What about December 1999 worst tempests France suffered since centuries, that no historic chronicles ever mentionned such a disaster ?
Two hurricanes crossing France one day after the other at the incredible speed for any hurricane of 100 kilometers per hour...
This was the translation speed, not the wirl winds speed which couldn't be measured, as no anemometers here where made for measuring winds faster than 220 km per hour. tongue they simply were broken away.
Its 200 millions trees, 10% of french forests which where rooted off or broken, 30% of electric supply lines out or work.
What about the deepest dryness Portugal suffers now since decennies ?
We don't have fears, boy, we have facts !
It's not because Canada is having advantages with weather warming that there are no threats on other parts of the world.

#219 Re: Not So Free Chat » Katrina and New Orleans » 2005-08-30 17:30:36

And while hurricanes strike, at UNO, Bush's diplomacy forbids any reference on climate change...  :shock:

But one thing is sure, the warmer the climate will be the more violent and frequent hurricanes will be as natural heath dissipation mechanisms

#220 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Earth Atmospherics/Weather » 2005-08-30 14:28:16

And while hurricanes strike, at UNO, Bush's diplomacy forbid any reference on climate change...  :shock:

#221 Re: Not So Free Chat » Race and Culture - A Changing Europe - Opening a mighty can of worms... » 2005-08-30 11:41:06

LO
Back from 15 hollidays in center of France province Auvergne,
an ancient hot spot powerful volcano region.
There I went to listen to an american classical music trio amazed to play in a delicious

Eglise2.gif

XIIth century built roman architecture church
with clock tower pointing at the sky as a space vessel
in front of 70 people out from a 700 hundred peoples country village.
One said that in USA, to have such an audience, they should play in a 10000 inhabitants town.

By the way, guess where US long horns cows are originated from ?

Cow1.gif

Salers, a mountain very resistant to heath and cold race of cows brought to Louisiana by froggies when Louisiana extended up to Baton Rouge wink

#223 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Earth Atmospherics/Weather » 2005-08-06 07:14:17

LO

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050804/ap_ … _wave]Last year's Hurricane Ivan...

*...produced a 91-foot tall wave.   neutral  It was detected 75 miles south of Gulfport, Mississippi by instruments on the ocean floor.  During Ivan's rampage, the instruments detected 146 huge waves:  24 of them were 50+ feet tall, and then the 91-footer.  :shock: 

Says these weren't rogue waves, but are apparently common waves as intense hurricane weather goes.  Article also points out that ships try to avoid hurricanes...nah, REALLY?  tongue

--Cindy

Don't forget that under an hurricane is an intense depression that can rise the sea level up to more than 15 feets upon normal, bringing sea floding.
Are waves heigth calculated with the level rising ? Apparently, yes if waves heigth are calculated with sea floor based instruments
also, rogue waves profile present a front that is like almost vertical like wall, if waves profiles are mountain like shaped except when meeting sea floor, no rogue waves

#224 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-08-06 06:11:00

LO

Of our British lap dogs, I can say nothing.  lol
I'm actually disappointed in Blair, as he has at least had the balls to say what needs to be said. Honesty in a word.
But I'm not surprised, Blair is hemmed in by playing stalwart ally to the imbecile in the Whitehouse, and trying to be his own man.

I think that GB and Blair had no choice but to support war at Irak because of secret treaties USA and GB have signed during WWII and cold war.
Something that prevails as the "perpetual peace treaty" between France and Spain does. Spain was obliged to side France against GB, that led to Trafalgar.
British advocacy on reasons to fight at Iraq were such a poor and akward when you rembember that US AF and RAF had so frequent Saddam's Iraq overflying reconnaissance and bombing raids which destroyed any iraqi radar tracking system.

But Chirac, no offense my friend, is a politican of the first order, so I hate him.

Would you lived in France, you would hate him for his economic results...
Even market and entrepreneurs had more trust when France was ruled by pink coalition.

You get the duck big_smile , although as a farm bread kid, if idea of killing a chick to feed on doesn't upset me at all maybe because they are red eyed, naturally, I would never kill any as a harmless and sympathetic animal as duck by myself.
But they are too delicious a meal  :oops:

#225 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VIII » 2005-08-05 18:30:22

LO Bill
I think that describing Saddam power as only relying on Baath or Sunnis is a mistake.
Regime played on Shias divisions and antagonisms and had agreements with what was to his eyes "moderate" Shia religious leaders, as well as some Kurds allies.
Shias and Kurd revolts against Saddam regime were boosted by Bush-the-father during and after Gulf War 1.
Gaz wich had been polically correct a weapon against Iranian troops during Iraq-Iran war became WMD when used at shia and kurd insurgents.

One, the United States has learned nothing.

What about Blair saying there is not the very tiniest link between London attacks and Iraq ? his nose's inflating  big_smile
The leading bunch don't want to learn, it wants to teach democracy.
And War On Terror
I've just understood its strategy, I understand quite fast if explained a very very long time :?
it is very brilliant. big_smile
It's based on the concept "If we can't go to Usama, Usama will come to us",  :shock:
therefore, if we stand in Iraq, Usama will come into Iraq, there, we'll just have to capture him, and we'll win war on terror, and have Jed elected
Machiavelic, is it not ?

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