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Clark, you wrote, "I think I might actually stop here becuase I see what you are getting at, but it is theoritcal bullsh*t that can't be proved and even if it could, the results are meanigless since we're powerless to change it."

The proposition that the behavior of a complex organism (e.g., a horse, dolphin, chimpanzee, or human) is determined by the organism's physiology, history of reinforcement and punishment, and current environment, is a scientific theory.  People can and do use techniques that are based on that theory in order to shape the behaviors of various species of organisms, including humans.  We could apply those techniques to the task of creating a human sociocultural system that can maintain and replicate itself on Mars.  Or we could teach people to believe that they have supernatural souls and free will and then we could use those theological doctrines to justify rewarding and punishing them in order to shape them into Martian settlers.

Science or Religion; take your pick!

Clark:

People experience the feeling of freedom when they can do almost anything that they want to do.  When they want to do many things that they cannot do then they experience a lesser degree of freedom.

A society has a very effective system of socialization and social control if its members want to do what they ought to do.  The members of a society can experience high degrees of freedom even though their behavior is determined by their (1) physiology, (2) history of reinforcement and punishment, and (3) current environment.

Freedom is best understood as an emotional state.  Using freedom as a theory of behavior (e.g., "People do what they do because they are free.") does not explain anything.

Scott

In a previous message, I suggested that Martian settlements might be organized like the Ecovillage of Ithaca, which is located in the state of New York.  I have discovered that the EcoVillage of Loudoun County, Virginia, has a governance system called "sociocracy."  That village's website presents the following description of sociocracy.

"EcoVillage of Loudoun County, VA uses a decision-making system called sociocracy to set policies and rules efficiently while respecting each other. Sociocracy originated in The Netherlands. Originally envisioned in 1945 by Kees Boeke, a Dutch educator and pacifist, as a way to adapt Quaker egalitarian principles to secular organizations, sociocracy allows us to give and receive effective leadership while remaining peers.

"Gerard Endenburg, a pupil of Kees Boeke, developed Boeke's vision into a body of well-tested procedures and practical principles. After World War II, Gerard Endenburg's parents (socialists before the war), set up their own (successful) company to try out their advanced ideas. Gerard trained as an electrical engineer, gained expertise in cybernetics (the new science of steering and control), and worked briefly for Phillips Electronics, designing a flat speaker that is still used in small electronic equipment today. Then his father challenged him to manage a small, failing business he had purchased. In less than a year Gerard had made the business profitable and merged it with his father's company. In the late 1960?s, Gerard's father retired, and Gerard became manager of Endenburg Electrotechniek with the mandate to run it both as a profitable business and as a real time laboratory for testing innovative management ideas. Sociocracy is a product of that experience.

"Today, Gerard has retired from day-to-day management of Endenburg Electrotechniek to devote his time to running the Sociocratisch Centrum, a consulting business that assists a wide variety of companies and organizations (including cohousing communities) to implement sociocratic structures. Gerard is also a professor at the Economic Science and Industry Department of the University of Maastricht where sociocracy is part of the curriculum and academic practice."

Continued at (click here and then on "Governance")

Webster's Third New International Dictionary defines sociocracy as "(1) a theoretical form of government in which society as a whole has sovereign rights, (2) the application of scientifically determined principles promoting the interests of society as a whole."

Should Martian governance systems be based on "scientifically determined principles"?

Scott

A corporation named "Mars Society, Inc." was organized under Colorado law on September 11, 1997 by Declan J. O'Donnell.  That corporation was dissolved on March 1, 2002 by the Colorado Secretary of State and then reinstated on August 23, 2002. 

The Articles of Incorporation of Mars Society, Inc. provide that Robert Zubrin, Margaret Zubrin, and Declan J. O'Donnell will be the original members of the Society's Board of Directors. The Articles of Incorporation were amended on April 20, 1998 to provide that Richard Wagner is also an original member of the Society's Board of Directors.  That amendment was filed with the Colorado Secretary of State on May 27, 1998.  That amendment also eliminated the sentence, "The specific purpose and objective of the Corporation shall be to further the exploration and settlement of Mars." 

On December 11, 1999, the Board of Directors of Mars Society, Inc. adopted bylaws which provide that, "The purpose of the Mars Society is to further the exploration and settlement of the planet Mars through; 1. Broad public outreach to instill the vision of pioneering the Red Planet, 2. Mobilizing support for ever more aggressive government funded Mars exploration programs around the world, and 3. Conducting Mars exploration on a private basis."

In accordance with this purpose statement, Mars Society, Inc. can mobilize support for and conduct Mars exploration activities.  And it can build prototype Martian stations in order to conduct simulated Mars exploration activities.  And it can instill the vision of settlers pioneering Mars.  But Mars Society, Inc. cannot build a prototype Martian settlement.  The Articles of Incorporation and bylaws were cleverly amended in order to exclude this activity.  That is why, when Steering Committee member Bruce Mackenzie "presented a new project idea: The Analog Settlement to publicly demonstrate the feasibility of living beyond the Earth and its advantages to everyone," Mr. Mackenzie's project idea was simply ignored.  He had unwittingly proposed an activity that is beyond the scope of the Society's cunningly amended purpose.

Sorry Bruce; you have been preempted.   

Phobos:

The founding of the Mars Institute has ramifications that go beyond its stated mission of furthering "the scientific study, exploration, and public understanding of Mars."  The existence of the Mars Institute will allow the Board of Directors of the Mars Society to amend the bylaws of the Mars Society to provide that the Society's Directors shall be elected by the Society's members. 

The "activists" of a democratically controlled Mars Society will then be able to focus on the settlement of Mars while the "scientists" of the Mars Institute focus on the exploration of Mars.  This division of labor between activists and scientists will encourage more scientists to become involved in Mars research and exploration programs.  The Mars Institute gives scientists the option of participating in worldwide Mars research and exploration programs without taking the risk of being directly associated with people who advocate the settlement of Mars.

Scott

Reuters news service has reported the discovery of a marble plaque that bears the ancient name of the city of London. According to the report, "The Italian marble plaque, found in the Southwark area of London at the junction of three key Roman roads, is dedicated to the Roman emperors and the god Mars..."

Londinium is a good name for a Martian settlement.

Scott

Each Martian settlement would probably have ordinances that are structurally similar to the following example.

Scott
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CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT CODE SECTIONS 6800-6807

6800.  The time in which any act provided by law is to be done is computed by excluding the first day, and including the last, unless the last day is a holiday, and then it is also excluded.

6801.  Time is computed according to the Gregorian or new style; and January 1st, in every year, after 1752 is reckoned as the first day of the year.

6802.  The years 1900, 2100, 2200, 2300, or any other future
hundredth year, of which the year 2000 is the first, except only
every fourth hundredth year, are not leap years, but common years of 365 days.  The years 2000, 2400, 2800, and every other fourthhundredth year after 2000 and every fourth year, except as provided in this section, which, by usage in this State is considered a leap year, is a leap year consisting of 366 days.

6803.  "Year" means a period of 365 days; "half year," 182 days; "quarter of a year," 91 days.  The added day of a leap year, and the day immediately preceding, if they occur in any such period, shall be reckoned together as one day.

6804.  "Month" means a calendar month, unless otherwise expressed.

6805.  A week consists of seven consecutive days.

6806.  A day is the period of time between any midnight and the midnight following.

6807.  "Daytime" is the period of time between sunrise and sunset.  "Nighttime" is the period of time between sunset and sunrise.

Clark:

You are a genius.  A pool is exactly what we need.  However, it should have a fence around it and the gate in the fence should have a child-proof latch.  Otherwise, Cindy might fall in and get as mad as a wet hen.  And then she might even become hostile!

Scott

Cindy:

You have succeeded in injecting another dose of venom into this discussion of  Martian Calendar and Timekeeping systems.  You should be proud of your efforts.  People who visit this forum for the first time will see your posts and be inspired to leave immediately and never return.

Mr. Armitage:

The malicious and hostile tone of your previous message is not going to prevent me from participating in the discussions in this forum.  However, you will make other people afraid to participate.  They will not post their ideas because they fear that you will launch inane attacks on them.

Stop and think about what you are doing.  Or is it your intent to sabotage the discussions in this forum?

Scott G. Beach

No.  But I do want Martians to be aware of the power that their cultures have to shape their behavior.  Martians should be taught how to control of the evolution of their cultures.

Scott

Bill:

The Mormons have lots of money.  And their polygamous tendencies would produce lots of Martians in record time.

Scott