New Mars Forums

But with ESA being involved with Russia and its capacity to develop new engines what would the likehood of an Arianne class with a Russian engine being made.

And this is for GCN what sort of performance would they get from such a collaboration.

But what you have to remember it sounds lovely that the United States economy benefitted by 7 dollars for each dollar spent on space. But the average Joe did not really see it and once the First Moon Mission landed they turned off there TVs and ignored the program in droves.

But there is never people marching down your high street claiming that the space program should be funded. There is never people on corners collecting money for the Mars Society. Space exploration is considered the domain of the super intelligent rocket scientist and space jockey. In fact it is considered airy fairy land for a common person to want to be involved. Children dream of it not adults.

So if we want to sell space and to defeat those who oppose us we need to get the commen person involved. We need to make them feel personally excited and that space is doing things which not only personally benefit them but that they can actually do things to advance it.

Now this is hard but we have to try otherwise you may see all the current space programs cut one day by a new administration that considers sorting out home problems first and space a pure waste of resources.

Cal didnt grow up into CobraCommander did he?

But it is an interesting thought. I wonder if the future colonists of Mars will become aggrivated with the people of Earth to the point they revolt.

Is this not how all colonies become nation states?

Though China is more friendly with its neighbour its a simple case of economics that has caused it. Russia has resources and Oil, China needs it.

But it is also this economics that ensures China will now have to pay a lot lot more to get its hands on Rusian space expertise. And it also means with a more forceful and powerful Russia that for China to get its ability to launch using what we call heavy lift it will have to design it itself.

But saying that it can do it. And it can use the experience and mistakes of all the other space agencies to be able to get a quick boost.

When the ISS was being planned ESA had plans for its module to have been equipped with its own atmosphere and supply of power. This was stopped by NASA probably as it was thought by administrators that ESA was trying to get real experience in designing and building its own station and in sending man rated modules up in an Arianne.

Also what the ESA scientists actually then designed was a much larger Module than will now be deployed and was a lot more useful as a science station.

So though there are other nations involved in its creation what is a definite is that the ISS is an American station which would really have trouble being sold on the open market. Who would want something that costs so much and is certainly not value for money.

Yes but we have to use the People we send with intelligence and with that we use Telerobotic robots and Satelites to find, prepare and Guide in the Men and Women who come later.

This means we get the people to who we send to actually do what they are best at and leave the mundane technician and building jobs to Guided telerobots from Earth. But it will be started by Robots as it can be done cheaper if we use robots at first to prepare the ground. This will also allow us to use the poor financial resources we will have to the best use and allow missions to get done faster. It will also provide places for the future missions to come down and land safely. It will also help if we have a clue where we want people to start looking.

The Arianne 5 is designed as a pure satelite launcher but it does not mean ESA has plans for a more capable heavy launcher. The Arianne 5 is designed to get Europe back into the satelite launching buisness with more capability by launching more than one satelite at once.

Still for ESA to go to the Moon as part of its Aurora programme needs a lot heavier launcher (see mars society Germany) or a team effort with someone like the Russians. And with the Russians recently touting Energia again though it will cost Billions of Euros to get going again.

Still seems a lot to do.

I wonder wether this thing will ever be built. That is a lot of modules to have to launch and integrate and with the ISS showing signs of wear and tear and actually failing in parts (oxygen generator, The denting and strange noises).

The ISS was a make up design so that certain countries would not have there modules close to other countries for pure political reasons. I wish I was joking but this is true. Anyway there will be a lot more money needed to invest in the ISS to get it complete. And this is only if it stays on track and nothing goes wrong. So it has cost 100billion $us so far. I expect that it will certainly cost about the same to make it complete. This is all money that could have been spent on the more useful Moon and Mars and CEV programme.

If there was to be any building of a space Hotel on the Moon take it that low wages will not be a problem the workers that build it have. Actually at first anyone willing to pay the Millions to go there will simply have to take the rather antartic type accomodation that will be present.

But for space tourism to "fly" then we will need a reasonable cost 100% reusable spaceplane wether two stage or ideally single stage. And a decent sized space infrastructure to facilitate it as well like an LEO spacestation and a lunar/LEO transport system.

But this is not needed though for a return to the Moon. We can use a heavylifter to through direct cargoes or too combine in orbit more than one launch to go there. Eventually we will send a tug up there to increase transport to the Moon and eventually we will need more humans up there so an improved people carrier will be developed (read spaceplane). But what must be done is to do one stage at a time and then simply keep adding to it so that it all leads to improved infrastructure allowing more to be done. The so called spiral design.

But what we must not do is an appollo Moon shot which cost Billions and simply cancelled any further advancement on the Moon or attempt to use materials found there to increase the length and reduce cost of the missions or to create permanent facilities.

Actually im quilty of having to use a set of womens tights as a timing belt in an old beat Nissan sunny

But it worked and got me home.

Another thing I have heard someone do was to have a flat tyre and to fill it with polyfilla a plaster replacement as he had no spare.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/robot-05g.html]Gladiator TUGV

Interesting though telerobotic I wonder how much it has gained from the Carnegie Mellon entry into the DARPA grand challenge. A very interesting design still though especially those missile pods probably a tow derivative.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/laser-05c.html]Northrop Grumman new division.

And another interesting side show. A major corporation planning to develop and build a range of battlefield energy based weapons.

Still though it is an early stage of Robots coming to the battlefield it is very "terminatorish".

Do you know when I was a child I used to look up to the stars and wonder.

I still do,

I wonder when the ISS is going to fall on me......

Frankly what made this operation go wrong, how could the USSR produce a station which was more effective than the ISS. And how could NASA design and insist on anything that relied on one means to get modules up. And how and why design and build something that prior to it being completed starts falling apart.