New Mars Forums

I think Time is a physical object. Time is the most important variable in thermodynamic. You probably know the "arrow of time" of Stephen Hawking : time might not be the real physical variable, entropy, might be the real variable.

The arrow of time points in the direction of the increasing entropy.

Yes Bill, but I hope that it is clear for everybody that ALL signs of religiuos appartenance are now forbidden in french public school. Though it is true that the muslim scarves are the main targeted.
It's good for kids, they are too easily manipulated by groups of interest.

Not bad, what's your telescope ?

Also, you're from Montreal. I've been living there too. What's up there ?

The James Webb Telescope is the renamed New Generation Space Telescope, which project has been circulating (on internet at least) for more than 10 years now. So it should be in an advanced stage.

I thought that there was a project for an space interferometric telescope in the visible, capable to separate a planet from its mother star. Maybe I am confused with another project, maybe the terrestrial planet finder ?   
In Infrared, the JMST will certainly have an adavantage to detect planets over visible, since the luminosity star/planet ratio is lower in infrared than in visible, but with an optical separation power of only

I know Eurora, it's a little bit the equivalent of the Bush space program. Something safe, advancing step by step, with human on Mars somewhere in the future. It's good, rational and sound. Might never be done.
Our human Settlement on Mars is a little bit of a crazy idea. It's a dream, not a scientific experiment.
Eurora or Bush space initiative have nothing to compare with the Zubrin prophetic visions : an urge to go, now or in the next 15 years.

Absolutly It's the time. Nuclear propulsion was tried in the 60/70 ies with the NERVA prototype, so it's not really new. Mars is just the nearest possible place to go AFTER the moon, so it's not a new concept either. Von Braun had a project for Mars already.
Something equivalent to the JFK challenge would be a permanent base on Mars before 2010. You know my point of view Clark. I think that re-doing the moon first and  postponing Mars might be safe at short sight, but not so much if you consider the considerable challenges of the future, on earth this time : global warming, ecological collapses, demographic problems, wars, diseases etc. Anything that could postpone Mars ... definitively.

I have noticed it too. If it's natural, then it must be a very reflective material, like metallic or alternatively very white, like a pure patch of white salt.

All this lack of public interesting information about the pictures released and other chemical analysis is annoying. I know that the scientist are carefull, but here for example, they would just have to say "the white spot are missing pixels" or "we don't know". No big deal but instead of that we are flooded we much less interesting news : Today Spirit woke up at the sound of "La Marseillaise"....riiiinnnnnng ( Dubya calling)...." Oh I know it is a mistake Mr President, but it was that or waking up Spirit with a CD of Sex Pistols, that's all we have right now"

New Opportunity microscopic imager pictures show budding-like concretions. Very similar to budding yeast.

[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 37M2M1.JPG]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....2M1.JPG

what's up in the scientific results and theories (serious only)? I have been in Miami for the last days and far away of Mars stuff, in complete ignorance of what matters in that troubled world.

If in addition Mars express discovers underground liquid water today, the issue of life, past or present, is going to be the next problem to resolve.
Personnaly I think there is no life today, through I don't reject early prebiotic attempts or even some primitive precellelular organisms, subsequently swept by some event a long time ago in the martian past.
It might be very hard to find these fossils if they didn't had time to spread on the surface, which, we said it before, is in contradiction with the description of the meteorite ALH84001 as containing nanobacteria fossils.
Think about it: if this early life was very local in a tiny spot on MArs and so very rare ( exterminated before it could spread)  then it is unlikely that a meteorite impactor would send us the right fragment with these very rare fossils, meaning that these things in the meteorite are probably not nanobacteria fossiles, but concretions.
If on the opposite, early martian life had time to spread and an impactor indeed sent us nanobacteria fossils, which is then believable, the consequence is that it "should be easy" to find more of these fossils, since they are widespread....

we talked about that before but it's just for the new members here.

Actually Squyres mentioned 2 hypohesis with this early wet Mars  : either a standing water like a lake slowly evaporating and leaving behind lots of evaporites and salts crystals that were encysted in stones and later on disolved by a second watery event

OR

water percolating trough volcanic ash deposits, but where that water did come frommhe didn't say.

Your post are very informative Mr Toad, but you give the feeling that NASA doesn't play straight and hide informations, like a complot. Am I wrong ?
Do you suggest that NASA voluntarly favorizes a wet-early-Mars-suitable-for-life in order to fund her future mission more easily ?
If it's true, which I am not sure, It's just a little sin Mr Toad.
Not a big deal as long as the people really interested in Mars know the real story. Science is rarely fair anyway. There is always plenty of politic and trichery behind the pure researchers in white labcoat in their dungeon.

It has not always been like that. During the "enlightment" period that Cindy describes so well, money was respected but not worshiped. Human values were most important I believe.
Before, if you think about the old nobility in Europe, Money was even not an issue. That is what make the middle age so attractive, you could be respected for your courage, chivalry and generosity much more than for you richness. Actually, the "rich bourgeois" were maybe feared for their power and richness, but in no case considered as moral icons. Religion and Chivalry were the symbol of purity and good moral, not the bourgeois.
Unfortunatly we all know that the church often succumbed to the power of evil, money, power and now flesh. The Chivalry spirit also succumbed to its "inadaptation" to modern world values : the "preux chevalier without fear and reproach" killed by money-driven mercenaries by a bullet in the back.

From time to times, you can still meet some of these living fossils : they all show complete disdain for money and for dangerous situations. And of course, they ignore the stock market, unbelievable !

I agree with Mr Toad. The public broaccasting media stuff could be more better done, but, maybe this is the trend in Mars science. Mars Express releases barely a picture every 2 weeks.
The only thing that is equaly shared by the scientists and the public are the taxes payed to fund these project.

Also, at the begining of the rover mission, Jen. Trosper warned that no raw data will be released to the public at the exception of the pictures, because "(these raw data) wouldn't make sense for the public, anyway".
Well, I don't agree, there are geologists and chemists in the world that would be perfectly able to understand the data, like Mr Toad maybe ?
But I don't agree with Toad that NASA cares whatever the results suggest water or no water. Why ? because if there is no standing water in the past, Mars loose all its interest and all future missions are compromised ?