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Sounds interesting. I suppose you need to ask about when you would need this oxygen supply. Presumably on an EVA - either task-orientated or for leisure. One could have a system where oxygen containers are dotted around the base area. So maybe you carry 3 separate containers and once one is used, you go to a robot vehicle which will carry fresh supplies. You can locate the vehicle by GPS. This would reduce the weight you need to carry. Something similar could be used even with exploration. An explorer rover could have some smaller rovers attached that could carry oxygen supplies.
Watched clips of a 1970 British TV show called UFO. Rather than a PLSS backpack, they had something that hooked over one shoulder. Could you make a PLSS that small? We would want regenerable technology for Mars, but the show was made before that was a consideration. How could you do it?
https://i0.wp.com/gerryanderson.wpengin … =768%2C576Russian Soyuz capsules use potassium superoxide (KO2).
Wikipedia: Potassium superoxide
Reactivity
Potassium superoxide is a strong oxidant, able to convert oxides into peroxides or molecular oxygen. Hydrolysis gives oxygen gas, hydrogen peroxide and potassium hydroxide:2 KO2 + 2 H2O → 2 KOH + H2O2 + O2
Potassium hydroxide (KOH) absorbing carbon dioxide produces carbonates:
2 KOH + CO2 → K2CO3 + H2O
KOH + CO2 → KHCO3Combining these two reactions produces:
4 KO2 + 2 CO2 → 2 K2CO3 + 3 O2
4 KO2 + 4 CO2 + 2 H2O → 4 KHCO3 + 3 O2Applications
The Russian Space Agency has had success using potassium superoxide in chemical oxygen generators for its spacesuits and Soyuz spacecraft. KO2 has also been used in canisters for rebreathers for fire fighting and mine rescue work, but had limited use in scuba rebreathers because of its dangerously explosive reaction with water.KO2 reacts with CO2 in the following reaction:
4 KO2(s) + 2 CO2(g) → 2K2CO3(s) + 3O2(g)
Theoretically, 1 kg of KO2 absorbs 0.310 kg of CO2 while releasing 0.338 kg of O2. One mole of KO2 absorbs 0.5 moles of CO2 but releases only 0.75 moles of oxygen gas (O2) molecules.
Comparing to Apollo spacesuit PLSS
NASA Apollo project Space Suit(A7LB PGA)Oxygen was supply from this System then keep astronaut's life for about seven hours continuously. 1.05 pound oxygen was housed in 46.6 square ibch tank with 900 psi.
One interesting feature of the Russian system is it removes CO2 and generates O2 in one device. The Apollo suit carried 1.05 lb O2 = 0.476272 kg. That would require 1.409 kg of KO2. A7L-B was rated for 7 hours of operation. Increasing to 1.8 kg would extend to 8 hours 56.5 minutes (8 hours plus reserve). One advantage of this system is the KO2 is at the same pressure as the suit, it doesn't require a 900 psi tank. That allows the canister to be lighter. You have to be careful with storage and handling; exposing KO2 to liquid water will produce a rapid vigorous reaction. Enough water would cause it to explode. But the TV show portrayed a military base, so they wouldn't be afraid of dangerous goods. Besides, Russians use it on Soyuz.
KO2 density is 2.14 g/cm³. Add some volume for air flow between granules. For 1.409 kg the volume would be 658.4 cm³. Note: 1 cm³ = 1 ml. Say double the volume for air between granules, so 1.3168 litres. An army style 1.3L canteen could hold that.
Obviously the suit on the show didn't bother with a cooling system. In real life, an MCP suit doesn't require anything more than a bottle of drinking water, but the show's suit doesn't look like MCP.
You know, PET (polyethylene terephthalate) has a service temperature range +150°C (302°F) to -70°C (-94°F). Put a plastic bag inside a 1 litre bottle, fill the bag with drinking water. The cap would have 2 hoses: drinking water from the bag, and return air from the helmet to the bottle outside the bag. Bursting pressure of a 2 litre pop bottle is 150 psi. At room temperature, pop is pressurized to 40 to 55 psi. With thermal insulation blanket around the standard pop bottle, that would provide drinking water.
Another factor is that astronauts in the USA and USSR (in both countries being drawn largely from the daredevil test pilot community) tended to be big alcohol users. When they went on a mission they were essentially going cold turkey! OK for a the first couple of days perhaps but more and more stressful as missions extended.
Pushing back against ground control because you are angry with something they did or want, is one thing. Psychological troubles from confinement are quite another thing. Two distinct things.
I cannot speak as to the Russian experiences with crews on Salyut and then Mir. I think those crews had less volume available per person than we now have on ISS. But, they were small crews, too, and that also has an effect.
What we in the US learned about this dates to Gemini 7 in the mid 1960's. That was a 2 week mission, doing it in the (same) diaper inside the suit for those 2 weeks. Doing that sitting in a cramped Gemini capsule, unable even to straighten your knees. It's not often admitted that the original intent was a 3 week mission, but they brought it down at 2 weeks, because those horrible confinement conditions caused Frank Borman and Jim Lovell to nearly crack up mentally. What you saw of the rendezvous of Gemini-6 with Gemini-7 took place during that first week up there for Gemin-7. Gemini-6 was up there less than a week. Things were going downhill significantly by the time that second week started.
2 weeks was enough to "demonstrate acceptability" of riding in a space capsule to the moon and back (at most a 2 week mission). Confinement in Apollo was a lot looser, and they had potty bags instead of "doing it in the suit". Those conditions were a whole lot less horrible. Borman and Lovell (plus Bill Anders) demonstrated very good mental health for their ride around the moon in 1968's Apollo 8 mission, not quite 2 weeks long.
Ever since, the NASA bunch has had much larger volumes available per person, starting with Skylab, for long missions. Those volumes are comparable to ISS before it reached its final form. That's how the Skylab crews did 3, 6, and 9 month missions. Shuttle had lower per-person volumes, but doesn't count, because shuttle missions were usually only a week to at most 2 weeks long, unless docked at a space station.
It's not only the volume per person, it is also the ability to get away from the others when you need to be alone, which is just as important as being able to congregate with others when you need the company. That's less quantifiable with numbers, but it is just as important an effect. And it is often neglected.
GW
Yep this is not about micro-hydro.
In some countries rainfall is surprisingly regular. I remember on a Caribbean island the rain used to arrive at 2pm pretty much every day.
I am not saying this is a total game changer. It probably has a role to play in countries where rainfall is pretty much guaranteed. I think over the tropics it is pretty much a daily occurrence. It might have a role to play in areas like NW Europe where sunshine tends to alternate with rain.
It's just an interesting technology that is probably worth backing along with others like infrared harvesting, osmosis energy and various technologies that show promise.
Yeah. Up to 50W/m2. That would be OK if it were all the time, or even a large part of the time. But you only get that 50W/m2 during heavy rain. What percentage of the time does that happen? Actually not that much. We like to moan about the weather here in blighty, but we don't get heavy rain as often as we like to pretend. I noted that this new device uses indium foil as well. I have to wonder, what does this do that a PV panel does not? We get sunlight at some intensity every day. We might wait a week or more for rain. Longer in summer. I don't like to be negative, but this sounds like something you hear about once and then never again. A scientific curiosity. Maybe a few niche applications exist?
There is untapped potential for micro-hydro in most countries. But rain water falling on any collection device has pitiful power density. Streams and rivers collect water from a broad water shed, many times larger than the river itself. I have wondered on occasion, if we could exploit differences in ground water levels to generate power. That really would be small scale generation (a few tens of watts). But it could be built in a lot of places and sometimes, a few tens of Watts may be enough. You will never power a national grid with power levels like that. But maybe it would be useful for some off grid applications.
Micro pumped storage has options as well. 1 tonne of water, raised by 10m, stores 98KJ (27Wh) of potential energy. Raise it by 100m, and energy density is a more respectable 0.27kWh/tonne. This is low energy density compared to a battery, but the system will last for decades with very little maintenance, unlike a battery. Hydraulic power has the advantage that mechanical systems using it can be cheaper than electrically driven alternatives. They tend to be lighter as well with higher power density. This is why people use compressed air tools. Hydraulic reservoirs could be charged using simple mechanical wind pumps, with just one or two moving parts, much cheaper and easier to make than a wind turbine equipped with an alternator. A washing machine powered by hydraulic force, would need a simple hydraulic motor made from injection molded plastic, rather than a heavy electric motor with internal magnets and copper coils.
I wonder if the world is taking the wrong course with renewable energy. The advantage of wind power is that it can be exploited by very simple systems, with just a few moving parts, made from low energy materials like stone, wood and a little carbon steel for bearings. It is the sort of system that you can build yourself with basic skills, without a PhD in physics and millions of pounds in development funds. None of that is true for a gas turbine or a nuclear reactor or even a steam plant with a biomass or coal boiler. And with a home made wind turbine, that power can be produced where it is needed, if not always when it is needed. Mechanical power harvested locally can be used directly, without the complication and expense of converting it into electricity. Commercial wind turbines are hugely complex, computer controlled systems. They have hydraulic pitch and yaw control built into the blades, which must be tapered carbon fibre composites to withstand rotational forces. The fatigue life of the blades is about fifteen years. The steel tower might get twenty, depending on the environment. These system appears to build complexity into something whose advantage lies in its simplicity. Just a few things to think about perhaps as we head into an age of energy scarcity.
Hi - you're back after I'm back. No surprise there. And you're immediately off topic. No surprise there.
So maybe since we already use for hundreds of years sands and dust in things like hourglass and egg timers with shifting the sands on Mars and Duststroms someone will soon figure out how to make Dust Storm Energy or Sand Energy? There are lots of places on Earth that get little sunshine, the Aleutian islands, Bellingham Washington State, Juneau Alaska, Taipei Taiwan, Edinburgh Scotland, Faroe Islands, Bogota Colombia, 'Cold Bay' comes to mind of some of those places of least sunlight. The futurist dreams have dreamed of concepts like Fusion Reactors powering Martian Colonies and other almost 'scifi' concepts. We do not have fusion power...yet... and you might not get much power from this old method but as a back up it is better than nothing.
Although this board tends to focus on Mars we do look at other areas of science and 'Rain Energy' could be very useful on the Moon Titan which is more like a 'Planet' than a Moon. If we could figure out how to travel greater distances faster and deal with its temperature of 94 K or −290 °F
It's nothing to do with what Spacenut is talking about. It's not a form of micro hydro. It's to do with the electrical charge in rain.
For Louis and SpaceNut re new topic ....
At first, I was surprised at the thought of (possibly) harnessing rainfall to make power, but (upon reflection) i realized that rainfall is constant in some locations on Earth, and it is reliably abundant during monsoon season in others, so that even a 500 watt generator would be capable of operation for 24 hours a day for substantial periods of time.
For SpaceNut ... thanks for the additional links!
(th)
It's nothing to do with that. Read my post.
I have seen several of these small rain power systems that run off from collected water run off from a roof into a gutter. They can for a short span of time make 500 watts at the most as its all about mass and length of downward movement. Its this potential of energy that is at the roof level that makes the small turbine move until all the water is gone. The power generators are usually home made pelton spoon shaped surfaces fashion around a shaft shaped wheel.
here is another of the rain gutter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6oNxckjEiE
Does sound good. The issue might be the summer afternoons on Mars when air temperatures can reach 20 celsius.
I would run with truck-sized robot Skidoos. With robot control they could form trains but wouldn't need to be connected (laser and radar would keep them the right distance apart).
TH, that is a novel idea. According to this reference the friction coefficient of steel on ice is 0.02.
http://www.smas.org/2-kongres/papers/12961.pdfOn Mars, a force of 75N would be needed to push a 1 tonne vehicle. That is 75KJ/t-km (0.02kWh/t-km). Very efficient. Ice trains anyone?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee3WW0OnBL0
Seems like collection of rain energy (through triboelectricity rather than hydropower) is an important breakthrough.
Reported it could produce perhaps one third of what solar power produces.
Might be very appropriate for some countries and regions with high rainfall and might counter balance solar power deficits.
Not much use on Mars yet!
I would agree we need to look into this sort of transport solution. But I suspect when you factor in offloading, infrastructure and maintenance etc, solar powered robot transporters (working off transponders and/or GPS) will prove more cost effective.
I wasn't aware of there being a thread on this topic, so I decided to create one.
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/01 … sport.htmlAerial ropeways have been used for freight transportation on Earth for centuries. They appear to be extremely energy efficient, although I can find no data on actual energy consumption. In situations where material is transported down a gravitational gradient, no power supply is needed and the ropeway is powered by gravity, as with this example in the UK.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6RiYXI1Tf … e=youtu.beOn Mars, the reduced gravity makes a ropeway more practical than on Earth, as larger spans can be supported between towers and frictional losses will be even lower. Towers could be made from stone or brick, reducing the amount of steelwork needed. Wind loadings and seismic loadings are much lower on Mars, allowing towers to be slender compared to Earth. Bracing cables would improve their stability even further.
Aerial Ropeways can be used to transport ores from distant mines over distances of hundreds of km. Compared to a road, relatively little engineering work is needed, as the cable can be stretched between towers hundreds of metres apart. Carbon fibre or polymer ropes could increase the span even further, due to their improved strength-weight ratio.
This mode of transportation usually transports freight slowly, typically at around human walking speed. Given the low friction of steel wheels on wire rope and the absence of air resistance on Mars, we could power these ropeways by loading the buckets at a higher level than the receipt facility. Hence, no motors are needed, only pulleys. A quarry or mine located at a high elevation, like a Tharsis volcano, could in fact generate excess power, with a generator employed as a brake.
Lol! You lot never change.
We have huge experience of dust accumulation issues on Earth-based facilities which are often located in dusty desert regions which have frequent dust storms.
Mars Insight Lander was a stationary robot. It wasn't designed to shake off dust as far as I can see. The mobile robots have done fantastically well continuing to be powered by solar over 12 years or more. They are able to shake off the dust easily. When it comes to solar power facilities on Mars of course we will have dedicated robot cleaners as we do already on Earth.
Well I disappeared and eventually the CCP/PLA representative disappeared. So presumably they will return (with their fake mass postings, trying to destroy this site) as I return to posting...I guess we'll see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un9FY6G5UEo
I was interested in the absence of a deluge system. Is this less necessary if mechazilla holds the rocket well off the ground?
How much more data do you vaxomaniacs need to see before you accept you were completely, entirely WRONG?
Here's the latest data from France, one of the most vaxed countries on Earth with strict social distancing laws, and a rigorous vax passport system (that denies your fellow human beings who are unvaccinated any sort of social life). And yet - they have over 464.000 cases in ONE DAY! That's a huge, huge figure!!! UK hasn't gone over 150,000 and we test way more than France.
Oh dear. You're admitting you've lost the argument then, coming out with this BS?
“If we can produce vaccines that drastically decrease the transmission and severity of COVID-19, we surely are capable of ending the pandemic.” And yet, we have so far been unable to do so, largely because people simply refuse to be vaccinated.
This post examines a growing COVID-19 vaccine gap in Red and Blue America, with the share of the population that have been fully vaccinated. Party affiliation or voting patterns are an obvious choice. Throughout the pandemic, Republican governors have been less likely than their Democratic counterparts to support public-health measures, such as mask mandates. Not surprisingly, Republican voters (45%) are less likely than independents (58%) and Democrats (73%) to accept vaccines. In counties where then-President Donald Trump won by a margin of 50 percentage points or more in the 2020 election, the vaccination rate was below 25%, as of April. According to Gallup, 40% of Republicans “don't plan” to get vaccinated, versus 26% of Independents and just 3% of Democrats.
It does appear that Political affiliation may have played a role in people's pandemic behaviors and consequently influenced subsequent death rates.https://images.seattletimes.com/wp-cont … NTY-1a.jpg
https://images.seattletimes.com/wp-cont … TY-1b2.jpg
https://fox59.com/news/national-world/g … than-ever/
Deadly partisan divide: Gap between COVID deaths in red vs. blue counties larger than ever
To all vaxxies out there - stop deluding yourselves:
Why would anyone want to land on Mars when they can mess around on Mars's moons. I just don't get it.
Mars Piloted Orbital Station (or Marspost) is a Russian concept for an orbital human mission to Mars, the mission never went ahead but had several proposed configurations, including using a nuclear reactor to run an electric rocket engine
https://web.archive.org/web/20081108061 … s/obl.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/2 … 38297.html
Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) the Japanese mission to Mars that would survey the two moons; Phobos and Deimos, and collect a sample to bring back to Earth.
https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/ … 3319937025
Jaxa budget discussion
https://twitter.com/sado_kouta/status/1 … 1618125830
Well you have definitely drunk deep of the Kool Aid.
We can tell because of course you offer no citations for your assertions. You are presenting us with anecdotes. That's all.
If your claims were true we would see a straight connection between vaccination and good health outcomes across the globe. We see nothing like that. There is no correlation. If you are claiming there is then you are a liar.
If you want to compare vaccination v non-vaccination you of course have to look at all-cause morbidity and all-cause mortality.
I really hate to think that someone like you - such a poor thinker - is in charge of triage ie life and death decisions. That's appalling.
kbd, if you use an umbrella in the rain, would you be surprised if you still got a little wet? Vaccinations reduce the opportunity for the virus to replicate. You want to eradicate it, like polio, then we need near universal immunization.
And contrary to the narrative that only fat or old people are at risk, this disease is killing healthy young adults. People in their 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's. Saying "i got it, and I'm fine, no big deal" is a bit like saying you got cancer and are fine so wtf is all the fuss. My hospital, we are all vaxed and boosted, but are suffering a staffing shortage due to covid- we are now taking triage measures and altering our operations. We are a level 1 trauma center. This is a place that handles mass casualty events.
The issue that largely gets ignored here is that you may survive covid, but a large percentage require hospitalization. Where are you going to go when you have chest pains and all the hospitals are full with covid patients? Do you know what it is like to talk about adjusting triage protocols for deciding on how we ration care for adults and children?
The risks with any of the vaccine are significantly smaller than what covid represents. Orders of magnitude smaller. And yes, people are being coerced to take the vaccine- this isn't done often and it isn't done lightly. If a neighborhood is in flames and we order people to evacuate, we cooerce those who want to sit in their burning house. This is the same damn thing.
From 03;18:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEcsomllbHA
First time I've heard about this - "Marscoin".
If Musk is really planning a Mars digital currency I think that is really posiitive and suggests to me he is thinking in terms of creating a viable single planetary state on Mars at the earliest opportunity.
Musk has also talked about returning a sample from the surface of Mars.
Well that's some good news to end the year on!!!!!!!
There are all sorts of statistical quirks that can occur. The authorities know that and seize on stuff to mislead the public. Take for instance, the period up to September 2021 - well during that period most people will have been unvaccinated even if the proportion of vaccinated was steadily growing. So it doesn't matter if the vaccines are effective or ineffective - the number of unvaccinated people getting Covid and ending up in hospital is going to be greater than that for the vaccinated simply because for most of that period they were in the majority.
Why haven't they released the figures since to September in the USA? The same trick is being pulled in England, although you can work out that the pattern is similar to Scotland's.
The other key factor is you have to look at all cause mortality and hospitalisations between vaccinated and unvaccinated. When you any apparent advantages simply evaporate because the vaccines are causing serious harm that gets people hospitalised. This is the case even when you adjust for age.
we are seeing exactly the opposite Louis
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke … ine-status
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Docume … inated.pdfhttps://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases … s/vbt.html
Something that I would hope would not happen is Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame
https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/12/09/distr … accinated/
Works for me - maybe it's one of those international barrier things.
"The vaccines never were, are not now, and never shall be a silver bullet or magic talisman against dying from COVID" That is exactly how they were sold by Fauci, Biden and - to be fair - Trump as well. Ivermectin is a kind of silver bullet - you can see how deaths just plummet when it starts being used e.g. in Uttar Pradesh or Japan. Here's Lying Biden telling everyone if you get the vaccine you won't get ill, you won't be hospitalised and you won't end up in an ICU. A total triple whammy lie.
Yes, I can compare 2020 and 2021. In 2020 the pathogen behaved like a normal coronavirus and went AWOL in July and August. In 2021, after the mass vaccination programme got under way, the virus stops behaving like a normal coronavirus and lets rip in July and August. That phenomenon is really only explained by vaccination weakening immune systems and causing Covid to continue to spread even in summer months. It put the whole population at risk.
Louis,
I tried to access the link you provided, but it didn't work for me. Please try to fix it if you can.
Your assertions are gross oversimplifications that are not supported by death counts from people who did versus did not have COVID vaccines. The age group who have both the highest percentage of COVID hospitalizations / deaths and immunization rates were / are the most elderly. The vaccines never were, are not now, and never shall be a silver bullet or magic talisman against dying from COVID, in much the same way that Ivermectin and monoclonal antibodies and natural immunity are not silver bullets. There is no such thing as a silver bullet in medicine, which you would both know and accept if this wasn't ideological in nature for you. It seems as if both sides of this issue are firmly wedded to their ideologies, till death do they part.
If 100% of people are vaccinated against COVID, then 100% of the people who still die from COVID will be vaccinated. Once again, vaccines are not silver bullets, irrespective of what ill-informed / ideologically disabled politicians or media personalities claim. The only difference is the number of people who died with versus without a vaccine. The people who don't have the vaccine die at a much higher rate when compared to people who are vaccinated.
Nuffield Trust UK - Cases, hospitalisations and deaths across the four nations
Look at the cases in 2020 and 2021, then look at the number of deaths.
Do you notice the steep reduction in hospitalizations and death rates, despite increasing case rates, now that most of the elderly and even many of the younger people are vaccinated?
It's not dumb luck, nor is it coincidence. Vaccines work. Treatments also work. We don't approve vaccines or therapeutic drugs based upon random positive outcome. The people who make money off of vaccines also make money off of therapeutic drugs. Either way, you're purchasing products from the same companies. I can tell you that the vaccines are far less costly than a stay in ICU. The therapeutics can also be less expensive than an ICU stay, but for some reason people have a hard time admitting to themselves when they're severely ill and need medical treatment. The hospitals and pharmaceuticals make money whether you use vaccines or drugs. Either way, they're getting paid.
Pfizer charges Uncle Sam, ultimately the American tax payer, $24 per dose of their mRNA product. You can purchase Ivermectin for $29.72 with insurance or $101.95 without insurance. The monoclonal antibodies are $2,100 per dose. All three products work quite well, but some are clearly cheaper than others. You can pay as much as you want to for your ideology. It makes no difference to me. I paid my 48 greenbacks for each family member, because money doesn't grow on trees. YMMV. Best of luck, no matter which option you choose. It's funny how hard-up you are for new technology, except when it comes to medical technology, although I guess everyone has their quirks.
https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/12/09/distr … accinated/
I don't think your position is tenable Kbd. The figures above from Scotland (Sept to mid Dec) show 60% of Covid cases, 71% of Covid hospitalisations and 90% of Covid deaths are vaccinated. What you're claiming is wrong. The vaccinated are the people who are a threat to good health outcomes.
These sort of results are being replayed across the planet.
Please note: the above figures relate only to Covid. They are not all-cause mortality figures. If we look at all cause mortality the picture for vaccination is only going to look much, much worse.
BTW - statistical note: the globalist propagandists are trying to confuse people by using bed occupancy in a way that implies number of people. So you may well hear "80% of ICU beds with Covid patients are occupied by unvaccinated people". That is not the same as "80% of people who have been in ICU over the last x months have been unvaccinated people". Unvaccinated people have better immune systems generally and so don't die as quickly or spend a substantial amount of time in ICU before they recover.
Mars_B4_Moon,
The reason we have more deaths is that the Biden administration is fixated on prevention rather than treatment of the disease. When prevention fails, you need to have well-developed treatment options. That makes every bit as much sense as Louis' fixation on treatment, rather than prevention. My take on it is that we do "all of the above". There has to be more than one option available when catastrophe strikes.
The heading for this topic is "Life support systems - Mars Water regolith soils 1 foot depth only"
It's not what you appear to imagine.
Mission duration is crucial to how one plans for fuel prep. You keep citing 365 days as surface duration of the Mission for some reason but it's completely false and you don't seem able to accept that. The average appears to be something like 670 days.
For SpaceNut .... what is the status of this topic?
You have some readers who appear not to understand this topic is (or at least I ** think ** it is) dedicated to designing an automated system to prepare fuel and oxidizer for a manned expedition. All talk of making fuel ** after ** a landing is just hot air.
The fuel and oxidizer for a return ** must ** be in place before the expedition leaves Earth
That is why the 365 Day/Sol timeline is needed ... I have explained the timeline in previous posts, and hope that it stands up to review by knowledgeable members. what might be done ** after ** a landing to make fuel and oxidizer is independent of what SpaceNut has undertaken.
For SpaceNut ... are you ready to create a single, concise post that provides the detailed equipment specifications a funder would need to buy from Earth based suppliers? If you have, I must have missed it.
My understanding of your venture here is to harvest water that is physically (and not chemically) embedded in the regolith, and to do so with sufficient vigor to deliver a ship's worth of fuel and oxidizer in one Earth year.
Your concise summary would (I presume) include:
1) power supply
2) regolith gathering equipment
3) regolith baking equipment (and associated volatiles collection equipment)
4) water electrolysis equipment and associated gas collection equipment
5) CO2 harvesting (compression) equipment and related storage equipment
6) methane manufacture using Carbon and Hydrogen collected above
7) oxygen collection from step 4 and related cooling and storage equipment
9) manifest of all of the above for delivery in a small fleet of vessels able to land on unimproved surfaces
10) anything I've missed that is needed to insure successAfter all the research you've done in posts to this point, I'm hoping a concise summary/shopping list will just flow smoothly from your keyboard.
It is time to name names: We need to provide names of vendors who can provide the equipment needed. We don't need to invent anything, or hire a consulting firm to create a white paper. This ** should ** be work that has been done on Earth already.
(th)
If we all did what Mars B4 Moon is doing - posting scores of archived posts and rarely posting anything substantive from our own fingers, this forum would become absolutely useless and pointless. As it is, it's definitely struggling.
I am quite happy for Mars B4 Moon to post lots of original thoughts on subjects of the moment but reviving old threads in industrial quantities is just turning the forum into a malodorous pile of old, outdated, disconnected material.
This is just hastening the death of the forum.
Sheep-think. Wake up.
Even thou Biden has had a vaccine the levels of getting into people has been slow and its only lessening the vaccinated level to drop in the death rates of the infected otherwise it is un-vaccinated that both have seen die.
It certainly is a factor. I was shocked to find that diabetes rates in Pakistan are something like 12 times the rate in the UK (you kind of accept the propaganda that diabetes is a disease of countries with advanced economies - clearly that's part of the story but not the whole story) and of course diabetes is a prime risk factor for Covid. West Africans and Somalis also have much higher diabetes rates. Diabetes treatment consumes something like 11% of the NHS budget. Increased diabetes prevalence has never to my knowledge been included in cost-benefit analyses of migration to the UK - for obvious reasons it would seem!
Britain's high Corona virus mortality rate likely has much to do with the fact that it is chock full of black people. Thanks to mass immigration, around a third of England's population are now non-white and the proportion is going up every year. In the foggy, high latitude UK climate, they are vitamin D deprived. Ethnic 'minorities' are 2.5 times more likely to die from the disease than native English people. Mother nature is restoring the balance.
