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Controversy coming from someone on Twitter posting an image claiming to show the IFT-4 booster exploding after water landing:
BOCA'S?BRAIN @BocasBrain
Here comes a 12 hour ban from X
Sorry, you don't get the footage.
See you tomorrow after the scolding :
https://x.com/BocasBrain/status/1809390911782367455
Bob Clark
In addition to using a Falcon 9 first stage, I would like to see smaller versions tried, specifically using the F9 2nd stage. The Merlin Vacuum on the 2nd stage can’t operate at sea level because of its high expansion. And the sea level Merlin would not have enough thrust to loft the stage from the ground.
So I’ll reduce the propellant load by 1/2. A single sea level Merlin could then launch it. I’ll estimate this half-size 2nd stage’s dry mass by first subtracting off the engine mass from the dry mass, taking half the remaining mass, then adding back on the mass of the engine. The reason is you still need the full engine size and mass to lift off, not a half-size engine.
The results are as below:
So about 670 kg to orbit as an expendable. Again for an operational SSTO you really want to use altitude compensation. I estimate using it you could raise it the payload to ca. 1,600 kg or possibly higher.
Another nice thing about this is you could get 10 of the these small SSTO’s from one Falcon 9, since there are 10 Merlins on the Falcon 9, and the total propellant size on the Falcon 9 of 500 tons amounts to 10 of the small size SSTO’s.
So you could buy a single reused Falcon 9 at $40 million, and break it down to 10 of the small SSTO’s at $4 million each.
Bob Clark
I began to wonder if the Falcon first stage with modifications would be capable of a single stage to orbit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_Full_Thrust
Mass (without propellant)[39] 22,200 kg (48,900 lb)
Mass (with propellant) 433,100 kg (954,800 lb)
Liquid oxygen tank capacity 287,400 kg (633,600 lb)
Kerosene tank capacity 123,500 kg (272,300 lb)
Payload fairing 1,700 kg (3,700 lb)Thrust (stage total)[4] 7,607 kN (1,710,000 lbf) (sea level)
Specific impulse Sea level: 282 seconds[
We can estimate using the Silverbirdastronautics.com payload estimator. Some quirks of the program have to be noted though. First, always use the vacuum thrust and vacuum Isp, even for first stages. This is because the program already takes into account the diminution at sea level. Note in the images below the engine thrust and Isp fields have the vacuum values even though this is for the Falcon 9 first stage.
Secondly, input the “Inclination” for the launch as the latitude of the launch site. This is just a fact of orbital mechanics that the launch angle should match the sites latitude to maximize payload. So for a launch from Cape Canaveral I input 28.5 degrees.
Third, for the “Restartable upper stage?” Option, select “No”. Selecting “Yes” often reduces payload, perhaps because it keeps some propellant on reserve for a restart.
Then this is what the input and results screens look like:
About 3,400 kg to LEO for the Falcon 9 first stage as an expendable SSTO. About the expendable scenario, note I subtracted 2,000 kg from the dry mass input field taking the dry mass down from 22,000 kg to 20,000 kg since reportedly the landing legs add about 2,000 kg to the dry mass of the first stage.
The question arises then why subtract that off if you’re aiming for a reusable system? A few reasons. It is my opinion that the opposition to SSTO’s is so engrained that just doing a launch carrying a payload would be an important thing to do. So first accomplish the expendable case then proceed to the reusable case.
[Sidebar: this is one of the reasons why I disagree with the approach SpaceX is taking with the Starship. SpaceX was spectacularly successful by first getting the expendable Falcon 9 then proceeding to reusability. If they had taken that approach to the Starship, they would already be flying expendable rockets to orbit at a profit. Moreover, they would already have rockets capable of single flight missions now to the Moon or Mars. No refueling flights nor SLS required. I mean they could do that literally like tomorrow.]
Secondly, the margins for a SSTO are slim, so you want to maximize the payload. So for the operational SSTO you want to use the known technology of altitude compensation. Using this instead of the vacuum Isp for the Merlin being 311s you could get the highest known possible vacuum for a kerolox engine, ca. 360s, while still having an engine able to fire at sea level.
This will greatly increase the payload possible, at least to 10,000 kg possibly higher, simply by having a variable nozzle. Now, when you have that higher payload then you can add on reusability systems.
Bob Clark
Andrew Parsonson @AndrewParsonson
Italian rocket builder Sidereus Space Dynamics has completed an integrated hot fire test of its single-stage-to-orbit EOS rocket.
https://x.com/andrewparsonson/status/18 … 58674?s=61
Bob Clark
…
EXACTLY those technologies were in ASALM-PTV, a ramjet cruise missile prototype, flight tested successfully in 1980. This thing was boosted to ramjet takeover (NOT scramjet!!!) at Mach 2.5, then flew in ramjet power to cruise at Mach 4 and 80,000 feet. It would then dive onto its target at an average Mach 5. In one flight test, we had a throttle runaway failure, and it reached an unintended Mach 6 at only about 20,000 feet! It would have melted and broken up, had this been more than a several-seconds-long transient event.
…
This articles discusses a scramjet research program that initially thought it had accomplished scramjet propulsion at Mach 6.4:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity … member_ios
But later analysis showed it was actually subsonic, thus ramjet, combustion. This is interesting because it means ramjet propulsion can work at least to Mach 6.4. Most commonly ramjet propulsion is described as limited to ~Mach 5.5. If this test really did ramjet propulsion to Mach 6.4, then it raises the interesting question of how far can we push ramjet speeds.
Bob Clark
In that video about 27 minutes in he talks about the autogenous pressurization system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFqjoCbZ4ik
This is a system that instead of using helium to pressurize the propellant tanks, heats a portion of the propellant to provide the pressurization. But surprisingly rather than using heat exchangers to heat the propellant, the exhaust directly from the pre-burners is used to warm the propellants. Tim Dodd was surprised it was done this way because other times it was done, heat exchangers were used.
This appears to be the cause of the recurring problems of clogging of the propellant intakes to the engines they’ve been seeing due to ice developing, since the combustion products include water or CO2 which freeze when contacting the cryogenic propellants.
I say again SpaceX is desperately in need of a true Chief Engineer, not someone who dabbles in the field. Can you imagine for example an AI company having as its Chief Technology officer someone who just dabbles in the field of artificial intelligence? Remember, this is not the CEO position here, who might be just a competent manager, this is the person who needs to have a firm understanding and knowledge of all the interconnected technology going on at the company.
A true Chief Engineer with decades of experience in the SpaceX industry who have known beforehand that using directly the exhaust products fed into the propellant tanks is a bad idea.
Bob Clark
The radiation shielding mass can be quite significant. A rough estimate, 150 tons for a 1,000 cu. m. sized Starship payload section, more than the dry mass of the entire Starship:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 92#p221992
Bob Clark
Human missions to Mars in doubt after astronaut kidney shrinkage revealed
‘An astronaut could make it to Mars but they might need dialysis on the way back,’ scientist warns
https://www.independent.co.uk/space/mar … 61132.html
Why I favor fast Mars flights. With orbital propellant depots can do a Mars trip in one month:
https://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2015/ … etary.html
Bob Clark
Dr Clark,
In that case, I'm going to go way out on a limb and say this isn't likely to prove feasible, even if it's theoretically possible. If there are no actual examples where something similar to what's required has been done in the past, then there's probably a good reason. I would opine that the reason it hasn't been done before, is that the wings would get ripped off of a hypersonic airframe with a wing loading that low.
Still, I’d like to see the numerical simulations or hypersonic wind tunnels tests to see what the max heating would be. If you read the full article I cited, both von Braun and the legendary NASA engineer Max Faget believed it possible:
Wings in space.
by James C. McLane III
Monday, July 11, 2011
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1880/1
Bob Clark
Dr Clark,
Could you post a link to any supersonic manned aircraft ever built, prototype or otherwise, which has a 10psf wing loading?
I would love to know more about how that was done, if such a vehicle actually exists.
No supersonic aircraft has had a psf that low. I haven’t even been able to find any subsonic jet aircraft, military or commercial, with a psf that low. Moreover even a single engine propeller craft has to be small to wind up with a psf that low.
You might think you can just scale up the craft. But say you scaled up a 10 psf craft say 2 times in every dimension so its mass is 2^3 = 8 times greater. The problem is the wing area will only 2^2 = 4 times greater, so the psf will be 20 instead of 10.
Bob Clark
…
That being said, I don't think there is a practical solution for the Skylon airframe (as it is usually depicted) to survive re-entry, not with those engines on its wingtips. I think better thought went into the engine than did the vehicle design. The Wikipedia article about Skylon has the BS about reduced ballistic coefficient reducing entry heating. Use my entry spreadsheet and run the trades yourselves. Yes, lower ballistic coefficient raises deceleration altitude. But only by a little bit here at Earth. So the peak heating is only lowered a little bit. The effect is dramatic at Mars. Not here…
Do you have a link to this reentry spreadsheet? I want to examine the feasibility of this claim:
Wings in space.
by James C. McLane III
Monday, July 11, 2011
Wing loading (the vehicle’s weight divided by its wing surface area) is a prime parameter affecting flight. The antique aluminum Douglas DC-3 airliner had a big wing with a low loading of about 25 psf (pounds per square foot of wing surface). At the other end of the spectrum, the Space Shuttle orbiter has a high wing loading of about 120 psf. This loading, combined with an inefficient delta-shaped wing, makes the orbiter glide like a brick. A little Cessna 152 private plane features a wing loading of about 11 psf and modern gliders operate down around 7 psf. A space plane with huge lifting surfaces and a very low wing loading might not require any external thermal insulation at all. Building a space plane with a wing loading of, say, 10 psf should not be an impossible proposition. Perhaps some day it will be done.
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1880/1
The only aircraft that come close to this low 10 psf wing loading are gliders and small single-engine propeller craft like Cessna’s and Piper’s.
The author mentions the Cessna 152 as close at 11 psf. But if you look at the empty weight it does fall under 10 psf:
You would have to replace the glass windows with metal of course. And you would have to make the landing gear retractable. But the biggest structural issue is those wing struts. As is usually the case with upper mounted wings, it has wing struts to help support the wing weight. These would likely burn off during reentry.
The Piper has lower mounted wing so doesn’t use wing struts. It also has retractable landing gear. The glass windows of course would have to be replaced with metal.
For either of these the wings would have to be made fold-away to fit inside a fairing. The propeller could be made fold-away during reentry to only be used when the craft has slowed to subsonic speed. We might also want to remove the propeller and engine to lower weight and just use a gliding landing.
Bob Clark
My understanding of Skylon and its SABRE (liquid air cycle) engines is airbreathing flight to only about Mach 5 at only about 100,000 feet, during which atmospheric oxygen gets stored in oxygen tanks that are empty at takeoff. At the M5/100k point, those engines shift to LOX-LH2 rocket propulsion, with which the vehicle pulls up steeply to get onto a non-lifting thrusted gravity turn trajectory. It can pull up, and it can accelerate upward along the steep path, PRECISELY because the propulsion is rocket. Rocket takes it to orbit. Single stage is possible because it tanks the oxygen during the early ascent, not before takeoff.
The SABRE engines are liquid air cycle engines. The air is specifically cooled to liquify it, and separate the oxygen from the nitrogen by way of the different boiling points. (This only works with super-cold liquid hydrogen as fuel.) In rocket mode, you dump the nitrogen, and burn the oxygen in the engines with hydrogen fuel from the tanks. In airbreather mode, you dilute the oxygen with at least some of the nitrogen. The combustor and nozzle are more akin to a liquid rocket engine than any gas turbine engine ever built.
…
Skylon doesn’t use air-liquification. It does use a precooler to cool the air that entered at ramjet speeds and got slowed down by the intake ramps to subsonic speeds. Using this approach the air can then be sent to the usual compressors used on turbojets. When it switches to rocket mode it uses both hydrogen oxygen stored on board at launch.
Bob Clark
At $20M per copy, SpaceX can afford to "blow up" 7 Starships and Super Heavy boosters before they reach the cost of a single RS-25E engine for the Space Launch System. Nominally, SpaceX would not blow up any vehicles, but if that is what they must do to learn and push the hardware to its limits, then I think NASA and the US Air Force are getting their money's worth out of the test program. Sometimes you have to "break things" to learn what not to do. The flight testing phase of development is the correct time to intentionally try to break everything.
Actually, Elon has said it cost about $95 million to launch a SuperHeavy/Starship.
Bob Clark
Several companies are investigating hypersonic air-breathing vehicles. These are vehicles that draw the oxidizer from the air like jet engines. Reaching hypersonic speeds would be to Mach 5+. The easiest approach to these speeds is to use ramjets. Scramjets can reach even higher speeds but are a much more difficult technological task.
I found the most promising approach that taken by Hermeus. They were able to keep costs down by using already existing turbojet engines and modifying them to operate in a ramjet mode:
Building the World's 1st Hypersonic Airplane | Hermeus.
https://youtu.be/jdKUN2V0PMM
But a key fact about the hypersonic air-breathing vehicles is how much they can subtract off from the delta-v needed to reach orbit.
Mach 5.5 is about 5.5*340 m/s = 1,870 m/s. But ramjets can also operate at quite high altitudes, well above standard turbojets, to about 30+ km, 100,000+ feet. The equivalent delta-v for that altitude is about 800 m/s. Then ramjets can supply 1,870 + 800 = 2,670 m/s delta-v to orbit. It turns out the trajectories that use aerodynamic lift can subtract some amount from the needed delta-v to orbit, so call it 9,000 m/s needed for orbit using lifting trajectory.
Then the delta-v that needs to be supplied by the upper stage would be 9,000 - 2,670 = 6,330 m/s. For expendable rockets the first stage commonly supplies about 4,000 m/s total delta-v speed+altitude with about 5,000+ m/s being supplied by the upper stage. But for rockets for which the first stage will be reusable like the Falcon 9 and the Superheavy booster, they supply a smaller total delta-v speed+altitude to the flight of about 3,000 m/s. This is so they can boost back to the launch site more easily.
Then this means the air-breathing hypersonic vehicle can supply about the same total delta-v, speed+altitude, as the reusable booster. But the majorly important advantage is the air-breathing vehicle can be reused thousands of times, compared to only a few ten's of times for the rocket booster. Since the first stage by virtue of its large size commonly takes up 75% of the cost of a launcher, this means the cost of launch will be greatly reduced when that first stage can be reused thousands of times.
The implications of this will be immense. It means for example despite SpaceX spending billions developing the SH/SS it may already be obsolete just by 2025 when hypersonic vehicles become operational and are used as the first stage of an orbital vehicle.
I think the hypersonic advance will be successful, and will thereby be used to launch payloads to orbit as a first stage, greatly reducing costs.
However, I think it possible it will also make possible another key advance: combined air-breathing/rocket SSTO's. The promoters of Skylon have argued this will be possible with their Sabre engine able to reach Mach 5.5. The problem with Skylon is it's projected $12 billion development cost. But by adapting already existing turbojets to ramjets, and utilizing existing airframes plus an existing hydrolox stage for the rocket portion of the flight this cost can be radically reduced, perhaps to only 1/100th of that, a few hundreds of millions of dollars.
See discussion here:
Low cost approach to winged, air-breathing and rocket SSTO's, Page 1.
https://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2024/ … d-air.html
Bob Clark
My suggestion was to use an expendable 3-stage architecture for the Starship vehicle. I suggested a "mini-Starship" for the 3rd stage, but it would work just as well to use the already existing Falcon 9's 100 ton 2nd stage for the purpose.
Note, since the Starship stages are expendable they would have much reduced dry mass, which increases the payload mass. I estimated with the Falcon 9 upper stage being used as a 3rd stage for the Starship, you could get single launch missions to the Moon and Mars NOW.
Bob Clark
SpaceX has released the suspected causes of the IFT-3 mishaps:
MAY 24, 2024
ON THE PATH TO RAPID REUSABILITY
Following stage separation, Super Heavy initiated its boostback burn, which sends commands to 13 of the vehicle’s 33 Raptor engines to propel the rocket toward its intended landing location. All 13 engines ran successfully until six engines began shutting down, triggering a benign early boostback shutdown.
The booster then continued to descend until attempting its landing burn, which commands the same 13 engines used during boostback to perform the planned final slowing for the rocket before a soft touchdown in the water, but the six engines that shut down early in the boostback burn were disabled from attempting the landing burn startup, leaving seven engines commanded to start up with two successfully reaching mainstage ignition. The booster had lower than expected landing burn thrust when contact was lost at approximately 462 meters in altitude over the Gulf of Mexico and just under seven minutes into the mission.
The most likely root cause for the early boostback burn shutdown was determined to be continued filter blockage where liquid oxygen is supplied to the engines, leading to a loss of inlet pressure in engine oxygen turbopumps. SpaceX implemented hardware changes ahead of Flight 3 to mitigate this issue, which resulted in the booster progressing to its first ever landing burn attempt. Super Heavy boosters for Flight 4 and beyond will get additional hardware inside oxygen tanks to further improve propellant filtration capabilities. And utilizing data gathered from Super Heavy’s first ever landing burn attempt, additional hardware and software changes are being implemented to increase startup reliability of the Raptor engines in landing conditions.
During Starship’s coast phase, the vehicle accomplished several of the flight test’s additional objectives, including the first ever test of its payload door in space. The vehicle also successfully completed a propellant transfer demonstration, moving liquid oxygen from a header tank into the main tank. This test provided valuable data for eventual ship-to-ship propellant transfers that will enable missions like returning astronauts to the Moon under NASA’s Artemis program.
Several minutes after Starship began its coast phase, the vehicle began losing the ability to control its attitude. Starship continued flying its nominal trajectory but given the loss of attitude control, the vehicle automatically triggered a pre-planned command to skip its planned on-orbit relight of a single Raptor engine.
https://www.spacex.com/updates/#flight-3-report
So they are pointing the finger away from the Raptor engine itself. But IF the fuel venting seen for both the booster and ship after their burns was real, that suggests the problem is with the Raptor itself:
https://x.com/djsnm/status/1768268571531235669?s=61
https://x.com/nricolas360/status/178576 … 46057?s=61
https://x.com/goingballistic5/status/17 … 79764?s=61
Bob Clark
…
You may want to use a bit higher. Fine. Do so. How about 440 sec? Corresponds to Vex = 4.315 km/s. We'll use that.
The mass ratio required to reach destination is exp(dV/Vex) = 8.630. The corresponding propellant mass fraction Wp/Wig = 1 - 1/MR = 0.884, or some 88.4% of the liftoff mass is propellant. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT. My other numbers are right in that same ballpark. Go look for yourself. Go do the calculation for yourself. I just gave you the equations.
That leaves 0.116 (or 11.6%) of the liftoff mass to be both inert mass plus payload mass. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT, EITHER! And my other numbers from the other studies are also right in that same ballpark.
Just remember, the sum of payload plus inert is your dry-tanks burnout mass. Add the propellant to it for your filled-tanks ignition mass. MASS MUST BE CONSERVED! Cannot play games here!
Now if you have 11.6% allowance, and you believe you can build an all-expendable stage with 4.5% inert, which has been done, then that leaves 7.1% max payload fraction. …
GW
GW, you’re assumed 4.5% inert mass, i.e., dry mass, fraction may be too optimistic for a hydrolox stage, leading to that unexpectedly high 7% payload fraction.
Remember hydrolox is less dense than kerolox resulting in a lower mass ratio, equivalently higher dry mass fraction. Commonly a hydrolox stage might be at ca. 10 to 1 mass ratio, corresponding to 1/10 = 0.10 dry mass fraction, 10%. Recall the famous Centaur upper stage for example.
So let me redo that calculation I made above for a 200 ton hydrolox SSTO. Using exp(dV/Vex) = 8.630, the total final mass reaching orbit, dry mass + payload, would be 23.2 tons. But 20 tons of that would be dry mass of the vehicle, leaving only 3.2 tons payload mass. This means only a 1.6% payload fraction, a much more believable number, significantly worse for example than the Falcon 9.
It also means very little payload if any once you add on reusability systems.
Bob Clark
…
You may want to use a bit higher. Fine. Do so. How about 440 sec? Corresponds to Vex = 4.315 km/s. We'll use that.The mass ratio required to reach destination is exp(dV/Vex) = 8.630. The corresponding propellant mass fraction Wp/Wig = 1 - 1/MR = 0.884, or some 88.4% of the liftoff mass is propellant. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT. My other numbers are right in that same ballpark. Go look for yourself. Go do the calculation for yourself. I just gave you the equations.
That leaves 0.116 (or 11.6%) of the liftoff mass to be both inert mass plus payload mass. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT, EITHER! And my other numbers from the other studies are also right in that same ballpark.
Just remember, the sum of payload plus inert is your dry-tanks burnout mass. Add the propellant to it for your filled-tanks ignition mass. MASS MUST BE CONSERVED! Cannot play games here!
Now if you have 11.6% allowance, and you believe you can build an all-expendable stage with 4.5% inert, which has been done, then that leaves 7.1% max payload fraction…
GW
I’m more optimistic about a reusable hydrolox SSTO. Let’s say the gross mass was 200 tons, a little less than the Delta IV core, a little more than the Ariane 5 core.
At a mass ratio of exp(dV/Vex) = 8.630, that’s (dry mass + cargo) of 200/8.630 = 23.2 tons, with 9 tons dry mass and 14.2 payload. As you noted that’s 7.1% payload fraction. But 7.1% exceeds any rocket that now exists or ever existed, no matter how many stages or variations of propellants used. The Falcon 9 for example is only in the range of 4% payload fraction. On that basis alone it should be pursued even as expendable.
But I think even a reusable version is doable. Back in the day, there were discussions online by those in the industry on how to do it. Here it was suggested the landing gear weight would be in the range of 3%:
Landing gear weight.
(2) TPS (heat shield): the figures I hear for this are around 15% of the
>orbital mass
Could be... but one should be very suspicious of this sort of parametric
estimate. It's often possible to beat such numbers, often by quite a large
margin, by being clever and exploiting favorable conditions. Any single
number for TPS in particular has a *lot* of assumptions in it.
> (4) Landing gear: about 3%
Gary Hudson pointed out a couple of years ago that, while 3% is common
wisdom, the B-58 landing gear was 1.5%... and that was a very tall and
mechanically complex gear designed in the 1950s. See comment above
about cleverness.
https://yarchive.net/space/launchers/la … eight.html
Remember this is only for the dry mass that would have to be supported by the gear on landing. The fully loaded rocket would be supported by the launch pad on takeoff. So 3% of 9,000 kg for the landing gear is only 270 kg.
That passage I cited also mentions a thermal protection weight of 15%. That was Apollo era estimates. The PICA-X developed by SpaceX weighs about half as much so call it 7.5% of the landed mass. That’s 675 kg.
Assuming powered, vertical landing, almost all the reentry velocity is cancelled out aerodynamically for a vehicle entering broadside. You only need then to supply approx. 100 m/s to cancel terminal velocity. For engines like the SSME the sea level Isp is in the range of 366s. This requires about 250 kg of propellant for a 9,000 kg dry mass vehicle.
All together that’s about 1,200 kg subtracted off from the payload. That still leaves a 13 ton payload for the reusable vehicle.
Bob Clark
SpaceX apparently wants the FAA to grant a license for the next Starship launch without them submitting a mishap report on the last flight. This just released video by “Angry Astronaut” discusses this:
SpaceX asks the FAA to bend the rules and return Starship to flight NOW! PLUS RFA ONE static fire!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG8T2HUe-Lo
Points out the point I’ve been making. The reason SpaceX still has not released a mishap report is they do not want to acknowledge the reason the booster failed on landing is the Raptor still has the problem observed previously of leaking fuel on relights:
Starship SN8 SN9 SN10 SN11 SN15 High Altitude Flight test synced.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww83pSeuGuA
But I don’t agree with “Angry Astronaut” in his video where he says, IFT-3 offered no danger to the public, so Starship can be recertified by the FAA to fly without a mishap report. The booster landed far outside the expected landing zone, probably because of flaws in the Raptor firing during the boostback burn. It should have landed 30 km off shore, but actually landed ca. 100 km off shore:
Starship Booster 10 Descent Simulation.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O6a10KbkGro
It could have been a danger to fishing or shipping in the area where it landed unexpectedly.
Bob Clark
I discovered through searching that the Rockwell 1978 SSTO study for NASA was nicknamed the "Platypus" design, but appears in USAF documentation as the Reusable Space Transport:
https://www.cizadlo.us/AmericanRocketNe … atypus.jpg
This LOX/LH2 powered design is what I would like to use as our baseline, because it has the payload performance we're after.
Empty Mass: 96,650 kg (213,070 lb)
Wet Mass: 1,158,192 kg (2,553,376 lb)
Thrust (vac): 18,643.471 kN (4,191,219 lbf)
Isp (sl): 385s
Isp (vac): 467s
Burn Time: 500s
Height: 64.00 m (209.00 ft)
Length: 53.50 m (175.50 ft)
Diameter: ?
Wingspan: 34.30 m (112.50 ft)Engines: 5 SSME Plus
Oxidizer: LOX
Fuel: LH2
Thrust (sl): 3,073.900 kN (691,040 lbf)
Thrust (vac): 3,728.70 kN (838,245 lbf)
Engine Weight: 2,973 kg (6,554 lb)
Thrust to Weight Ratio: 127.89
Area Ratio: 55
Thanks. That is quite an upgrade in the SSME thrust though. For instance the current SSME only has a thrust to weight ratio of about 70 to 1.
Also, what is payload of the vehicle?
Bob Clark
In the discussion of the Radian Aerospace spaceplane, http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10781, I suggested Radian investigate vertical takeoff instead of their horizontal takeoff method because vertical launch requires much lower wing weight. The key distinction is with vertical launch the wings only have to support the dry weight of the vehicle on return. But with horizontal launch the wings have to support the fully fueled weight of the vehicle.
But the Star-Raker proposal by Rockwell took this horizontal launch approach:
BLAST FROM THE PAST; a few good ideas may return to the light of day…
https://horizontalspace.wordpress.com/2 … ht-of-day/
As the designers noted horizontal launch has the advantage the vehicle could launch from any airport that has large enough runways to launch 747’s, rather than needing specialized launch pads and towers for vertical launch vehicles.
But the technique the Star-Raker used for the wings was innovative. They used multiple cylindrical tanks in the wings such that weight of the wings as tanks was close to that of normal cylindrical tanks. As a familiar example of heavy tank weight, recall the X-33. The non-cylindrical shape of the tanks resulted in poor weight efficiency.
Another innovation of the Star-Raker was the turbojet/ramjet engines. These are known as combined-cycle engines.
An operational example of such engines is the J-58 engines of the famous SR-71 Mach 3 jet. These are only able to get to Mach 3.2, however. Could the turbojet/ramjet of the Star-Raker get to the Mach 5+ required of their design?
Paging GW.
Bob Clark
You may also want to move the Radian spaceplane discussion to this subforum:
Radian Aerospace spaceplane.
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10781
Bob Clark
I agree with you the specifications for composites tensile strength suggests it should be 4 to 5 times lighter than aluminum. But for whatever reason when the tanks are produced they are only 50% lighter. By the way that is quite good since it means it would be lighter than any metal tanks in common use.
This is what I found after a Google search:
Bob Clark
Thanks for that. The only thing I can think is perhaps the composites are not as strong in all directions so greater thickness is needed to get the required strength in all directions.
Here is an article that suggests the weight saving with composites over aluminum-lithium would be about 30%:
Published 1/28/2016
NASA/Boeing composite launch vehicle fuel tank scores firsts.
For more than 50 years, heavy metal cryogenic tanks have carried the liquid hydrogen (LH2) and oxygen necessary to launch vehicles into space. But in a joint effort, NASA and The Boeing Co. (Chicago, IL, US) have designed, fabricated and tested a composite cryotank that, if scaled up to current space launch system dimensions, would weigh 30% less and cost 25% less than the best aluminum-lithium cryotanks used today, and could warrant transport of as much as 1,400 kg of additional payload to low-Earth orbit and beyond.
https://www.compositesworld.com/article … res-firsts
Aluminum-lithium offers the lightest metal tanks commonly in use now, saving about 30% over standard aluminum. Then that means composites would save about 50% over standard aluminum since 0.7*0.7 = 0.49, about 50%.
In that blog post:
DARPA's Spaceplane: an X-33 version, Page 2.
https://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2018/ … age-2.html
I suggested new lightweight aluminum alloys would be about as lightweight as composites because they are twice as strong as standard aluminum for the weight:
This assumes for the metals this strength would be isotopic in all-directions so the greater strength would translate directly to weight savings in this case.
Bob Clark
…
What I am looking for in this topic is a solid mathematical presentation that will stand up to the most intense scrutiny, that will show that SSTO from the surface of the Earth is possible.
(th)
The analysis I linked to above by Air Force Capt.(Ret.) Mitchell Burnside Clapp I think is pretty firm because he cites a study by NASA itself showing a reusable hydrolox SSTO is doable. NASA assumed the propellant had to be hydrolox because of its high ISP. But later people in the industry realized dense propellants are preferred for a SSTO because of the hydrolox high tank mass:
A LO2/Kerosene SSTO Rocket Design Study
In February of 1997, Mitchell Burnside-Clapp posted a vehicle dsign study to the sci.space.policy Usenet Newsgroup. It was based on a NASA Access To Space study and looked at the same vehicle design but using higher density LO2/Kerosene propellants and engines rather than the LOX/Liuid Hydrogen propellant and engines of NASA's design. The results were quite interesting.
A LO2/Kerosene SSTO Rocket Design (long)Mitchell Burnside Clapp
Pioneer Rocketplane(view with a fixed pitch font such as courier or monaco)
Abstract
The NASA Access to Space LO2/hydrogen single stage to orbit rocket was examined, and the configuration reaccomplished
with LO2/kerosene as the propellants. Four major changes were made in assumptions. First, the aerodynamic
configuration was changed from a wing with winglets to a swept wing with vertical tail. The delta-V for ascent
was as a result recalculated, yielding a lower value due to different values for drag and gravity losses. The engines
were changed to LO2/kerosene burning NK-33 engines, which have a much lower Isp than SSME-type engines used in the
access to space study, but also have a much higher thrust-to-weight ratio. The orbital maneuvering system on
the Access to Space Vehicle was replaced with a pump-fed system based on the D-58 engine used for that purpose now
on Proton stage 4 and Buran. Finally, the wing of the vehicle was allowed to be wet with fuel, which is a
reasonable practice with kerosene but more controversial with oxygen or hydrogen. Additionally, in order to reduce
the technology development needed, the unit weights of the tankage were allowed to increase by 17 percent.After the design was closed and all the weights recalculated, the empty weight of the LO2/kerosene vehicle
was 35.6% lighter than its hydrogen fuelled counterpart.Introduction
NASA completed a study in 1993 called Access to Space, the purpose of which was to consider what sort of vehicle
should be operated to meet civil space needs in the future. The study had three teams to evaluate three different broad
categories of options. The Option 3 team eventually settled on a configuration called the SSTO/R. This vehicle was a
LO2/hydrogen vertical takeoff horizontal landing rocket. The mission of the Access to Space vehicle was to place a
25,000 pound payload in a 220 n.mi. orbit inclined at 51.6 degrees. The vehicle had a gross liftoff weight of about
2.35 million pounds. The thrust at liftoff was 2.95 million pounds, for a takeoff thrust to weight ratio of 1.2. The
empty weight of the vehicle was 222,582 pounds, and the propellant mass fraction (defined here as [GLOW-empty]/GLOW)
was 90.5%.Main power for this vehicle was provided by seven SSME derivative engines, with the nozzle expansion ratio reduced
to 50. This resulted in an Isp reduction from 454 to 447.3 seconds. Each engine weighed 6,790 lbs, for an engine sea
level thrust to weight ratio of 62.Aerodynamically the vehicle was fairly squat, with a fineness ratio (length:diameter) of 5. The overall length
of the vehicle was 173 feet and its diameter was 34.6 feet. It had a single main wing (dry of all propellants) of about
4,200 square feet total area, augmented by winglets for directional control at reentry. The landing wing loading
was about 60 lb/ft2. The oxygen tank was in the nose section. The payload was mounted transversely between the
oxygen and hydrogen tanks, and was 15 feet in diameter and 30 feet long.This design exercise was among the most thorough ever conducted of a single stage to orbit LO2/LH2 VTHL rocket.
It was probably the single greatest factor in convincing the space agency that single stage to orbit flight was
feasible and practical, to borrow from the title of Ivan Bekey's paper of the same name.A LO2/kerosene alternative
A number of people have been asserting for some time that higher propellant mass fractions available from dense
propellants may make single stage to orbit possible with those propellants also. The historical examples of the
extraordinary mass fractions of the Titan II first stage, the Atlas, and the Saturn first stage are all persuasive.
Further, denser propellants lead to higher engine thrust to weight ratios, for perfectly understandable hydraulic
reasons.It has not usually been observed that higher density also leads to significant reductions in required delta-v.
There are two major reasons that this is so. First, the reduction in volume leads to a smaller frontal area and
lower drag losses. The second, and more significant, reason is that the gravity losses are also reduced. This is because
the mass of the vehicle declines more rapidly from its initial value. The gravity losses are proportional to the
mass of the vehicle at any given time, and hence the vehicle reaches its limit acceleration speed faster.NASA itself has implicitly recognized this effect. When the Access to Space Option 3 team examined tripropellant
vehicles, the delta-v to orbit derived from their work was 29,127 ft/sec, for precisely the reasons described in the
previous paragraph. This compares to a delta-v of 30,146 ft/s for the hydrogen-only baseline, as reported in a
briefing by David Anderson of NASA MSFC dated 6 October 1993. To be clear, these delta-v numbers include the back
pressure losses, so that no "trajectory averaged Isp" number is used. They did not, however, report any results
for kerosene-only configurations.To come to a more thorough understanding of the issues involved in SSTO design, I have used the same methodology
as the Access to Space team to develop compatible numbers for a LO2/kerosene SSTO. There are four major changes in
basic assumption between the two approaches, which I will identify and justify here:1: The ascent delta-v for the LO2/kerosene vehicle is 29,100 ft/sec, rather than 29,970 ft/sec. The reason for
this is argued above, but I ran POST to verify this value, just to be sure. The target orbit is the same: 220 n.mi.
circular at 51.6 degrees inclination. The detailed weights I have for the NASA vehicle are based on a delta-v of
29,970 ft/sec rather than the 30,146 ft/sec reported in Anderson's work, but I prefer to use the values more
favourable to the hydrogen case to be conservative. The optimum value of thrust to weight ratio turns out to be
slightly less than the hydrogen vehicle: 1.15 instead of 1.20.2: The aerodynamic configuration is that of Boeing's RASV. Without arguing whether this is optimal, the fineness ratio
of 8.27 and large wing lead to a much more airplane-like layout, better glide and crossrange performance, and
reduced risk. The single vertical tail is simpler and safer than winglets as well. Extensive analysis has justified the
reentry characterisitics of this aircraft. The wing is assumed to be wet with the kerosene fuel, as is common on
most aircraft. The fuel is also present in the wing carry-through box. The payload is carried over the wing
box, and the oxidizer tank is over the wing. This avoids the need for an intertank, which in the NASA Access to
Space design is nearly 6,600 pounds.3. The main propulsion system is the NK-33. The engine has a sea level thrust of 339,416 lbs, a weight of 2,725 lbs
with gimbal, and a vacuum Isp of 331 seconds. Furthermore, it requires a kerosene inlet pressure of only 2 psi
absolute, which dramatically reduces the pressure required in the wing tank. It also operates with a LO2 pressure at
the inlet of only 32 psi. The comparable values for the SSME are about 50 psi for both propellants. This will have
a substantial effect on the pressurization system weight.4. The OMS weight is based on the D-58 engine. This engine is used for the Buran OMS system and the Proton stage 4. As
heavy as it is the Isp is an impressive 354 seconds. NASA's vehicle used a pressure fed OMS, which is a sensible design
choice if you're stuck with hydrogen and you wish to minimize the number of fluids aboard the vehicle. But
because both oxygen and kerosene are space-storable, there is no reason to burden the design with a heavy pressure fed
system.Using the same methodology for calculating masses, and accepting the subsystems masses as given in the Access to
Space vehicle, a redesign with oxygen and kerosene was accomplished. The results appear in Table 1.Table 1: Access to Space vehicle and LO2/kerosene
alternativeName O2/H2 LO2/RP
Wing 11,465 11,893 lb
Tail 1,577 1,636 lb
Body 64,748 33,741 lb
Fuel tank 30,668 - lb
Oxygen tank 13,273 17,271 lb
Basic Structure 14,610 10,274 lb
Secondary Structure 6,197 6,197 lb
Thermal Protection 31,098 21,238 lb
Undercarriage, aux. sys 7,548 5,097 lb
Propulsion, Main 63,634 36,426 lb
Propulsion, RCS 3,627 1,234 lb
Propulsion, OMS 2,280 823 lb
Prime Power 2,339 2,339 lb
Power conversion & dist. 5,830 5,830 lb
Control Surface Actuation 1,549 1,549 lb
Avionics 1,314 1,314 lb
Environmental Control 2,457 2,457 lb
Margin 23,116 16,105 lb
Empty Weight 222,582 141,682 lbPayload 25,000 25,000 lb
Residual Fluids 2,264 1,911 lb
OMS and RCS 1,614 1,261 lb
Subsystems 650 650 lb
Reserves 7,215 8,895 lb
Ascent 5,699 7,587 lb
OMS 679 541 lb
RCS 837 767 lb
Inflight losses 13,254 17,445 lb
Ascent Residuals 10,984 15,175 lb
Fuel Cell Reactants 1,612 1,612 lb
Evaporator water supply 658 658 lb
Propellant, main 2,054,612 3,034,972 lb
Fuel 293,604 843,048 lb
Oxygen 1,761,008 2,191,924 lb
Propellant, RCS 2,814 2,556 lb
Orbital 2,051 1,756 lb
Entry 763 800 lb
Propellant, OMS 19,357 15,452 lb
GLOW 2,347,098 3,246,156 lb
Inserted Weight 292,486 211,185 lb
Pre-OMS weight 271,482 186,152 lb
Pre-entry Weight 252,125 170,700 lb
Landed Weight 251,362 169,900 lb
Empty weight 222,582 141,682 lbSea Level Thrust 2,816,518 3,733,080 lb
Percent margin 11.6% 12.8%
Assumed Isp(vac) 447.3 331.0 s
Ascent Delta-V 29,970 29,100 ft/s
OMS delta-V 1,065 987 ft/s
RCS delta-V 108 107 ft/s
Deorbit Delta-V 44 53 ft/s
Reserves 0.28% 0.25% lb/lb
Residuals 0.53% 0.50% lb/lb
Wing Parameter 4.56% 7.00% lb/lb
TPS parameter 12.37% 12.50% lb/lb
Undercarriage parameter 3.00% 3.00% lb/lb
Wing Reference Area 4,189 5,528 ft2
Density of fuel 4.4 50.5 lb/ft3
Density of oxygen 71.2 71.2 lb/ft3
Volume of fuel 66,276 16,694 ft3
Volume of oxygen 24,733 30,785 ft3
Fuel tank parameter 0.42 - lb/ft3
Oxygen tank parameter 0.48 0.56 lb/ft3Some discussion of the results and justification is in order.
The wing is about 40 percent heavier as a percentage of landed weight than for the hydrogen fueled baseline. When
considered as a tank, it is about 60 percent heavier for the volume of fuel it encloses. Its weight per exposed area
is about the same and the wing loading is half at landing. No benefit is taken explicitly for the lack of a
requirement for kerosene tank cryogenic insulation.The tail is assumed to have the same proportion of wing weight for both cases. This is conservative for the
kerosene wehicle because its single vertical tail is structurally more efficient.The body of the kerosene vehicle has three components. The oxidizer tank has an increased unit weight of about 17
percent. This is done in order to avoid the need for aluminum-lithium, which was assumed in the Access to Space
vehicle. The basic structure group is unchanged, except that the intertank is deleted and the thrust structure is
increased in proportion to the change in thrust level. The secondary structure group is mostly payload support
related, and was not changed.The thermal protection group is in both cases about 12.5% of the entry weight. This works out to 1.107 lbs/ft2 of
wetted area for the kerosene vehicle, which is common to many SSTO designs.The undercarriage group is 3% of landed weight for both vehicles. There is no benefit taken for reductions in gear
loads for the kerosene vehicle due to lower landing speed and lower glide angle at landing.The main propulsion group includes engines, base mounted heat shield, and pressurization/feed weights. The engines
are far lighter for their thrust than SSME derivatives. The pressurization weights are reduced in proportion to the
pressurized volume for the kerosene vehicle. No benefit is taken for reduced tank pressure.Here is as good a place as any to point out the erroneous assertion that increased hydrostatic pressure is going to
lead to increased tankage weights. There is no requirement for a particular ullage pressure except for the need to
keep the propellants liquid. It is the pressure at the base of the fluid column rather than the top of the column that
is of engineering interest. The column of fluid exerts a hydrostatic load on the base of the tank, but this load
does not typically exceed the much more adverse requirement for engine inlet pressurization. For the kerosene vehicle,
the hydrostatic load at the base of the oxygen tank is 49 psi, which is compatible with the pressures normally seen
in oxygen tanks for rocket use. The load declines after launch because the weight goes down faster than the
acceleration goes up.The bottom line here is that dense propellants may require you to alter a tank's pressurization schedule, but not to
overdesign the entire tank. Structures are sized by loads and tankage for rockets is sized principally by volume, and if
the vehicle is small, by minimum gauge considerations. This is not completely true for wet wings, however, as
discussed previously. In this particular example, there is no need for high pressure in the wing tank either, because
of the low inlet pressure required by the NK-33.The OMS group is the only other major change, as discussed above. The reliable D-58 engine has been performing space
starts for decades and will serve well here. The acceleration available from the OMS is about 0.12 g, which
is standard.All the other weights are pushed straight across for the most part. A brief inspection suggests that this is very
conservative. Control surface actuation requirements are certainly less, electrical power requirements less, much
better fuel cells available than the phosporic acid type assumed here, and reduced need for environmental control.
Nonetheless, rather than dispute any of these values it is easier simply to accept them.The margin is applied to all weight items at 15% execpt for the engine group at 7.5%. The justification for this is that
the main and OMS engine weights are known to high accuracy.The vehicle has an overall length of 1955 inches, and a diameter of 236.4 inches. The wing has a leading edge sweep
of 55.5 degrees and a trailing edge sweep of -4.5 degrees. Its reference area is 5,632 square feet, of which 3,992
square feet is exposed. The wing encloses 16,694 ft3 of fuel, with a further 5% ullage. The carry-through is also
wet with fuel. The wing span is 1293 inches, and the taper ratio is 0.13.The payload bay has a maximum width and height of 15 feet. It sits on top of the wing carry through box. The thrust
structure from the engines passes through and around the payload bay to the forward LO2 tank. The payload bay is 30
feet in length. It has a pair of doors, the aft edge of which is just forward of the vertical tail leading edge.The engine section encloses 11 NK-33 engines, with a 4 - 3 - 4 layout. The engines are each 12.5 feet long, and
additional structure and subsystems take up another 6.5 feet.The oxygen tank comprises the forward fuselage, which encloses 30,785 ft3 of oxygen, with a further 5% ullage.
The length of the tank is about 100 feet. The ventral surface of the tank is moderately flattened as it moves
aft, to fair smoothly with the wing lower surface. This flattening reduces its length by about 5% with respect to a
strictly cylindrical layout. The aft edge of the oxygen tank is about even with the forward payload bay bulkhead. A
compartment of about 13.9 feet provides room for some subsystems and a potential cockpit in future versions.Conclusion
The methods of the NASA Access to Space study were used to design a single stage to orbit vehicle using existing
LO2/kerosene engines. An inspection of the final results shows that the vehicle weighs about 36.5% less than its
hydrogen counterpart, with reductions in required technology level and off the shelf engines. The center of
mass of the vehicle is about 61% of body length rather than 68% for the Access to Space vehicle, which should improve
control during reentry. The landing safety is considerably improved by lower landing speed and better glide ratio.
Structural margins are greater overall. The vehicle designed here appears to be superior in every respect:
smaller, lighter, lower required technology, improved safety, and almost certainly lower development and
operations cost.
https://erps.org/papers/LO2-KeroseneSSTO.html
Bob Clark