New Mars Forums

Yes.  For example, a homeowner's association.  The association was controlled by the majority of shareholders, and each shareholder was eligible to cast one vote on each matter submitted to a vote of the shareholders.

Are you opposed to the existence of democratically controlled non-profit corporations?

Are you opposed to the existence of democratically controlled cooperative corporations?

Section 12200 of the California Corporations Code provides, in part, “This part shall be known as the Cooperative Corporation Law.”  And Section 12480 provides, in part, “each member entitled to vote shall be entitled to one vote on each matter submitted to a vote of the members”.

     http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces … nNum=12480.

Please do not try to tell me that democratically controlled cooperative corporations do not exist.  If you do so then I will conclude that you are just jerking me around.

The University of California is defined as a "public trust" so a campus of the University is public property.  The Regents (who are appointed by state officials) can enact regulations that are effective on University property.  The U.C. police can enforce federal, state, and local laws and U.C. regulations on U.C. property.  I am not sure about this but I think that in the case of a "hot pursuit" they can chase a suspected felon from a U.C. campus onto surrounding city or county property and make an arrest there.  If the suspect resisted arrest and drew a knife then the campus police could probably lawfully shoot and kill the suspect.

You might remember that a few years ago a U.C. police officer pepper-sprayed a group of students who were peacefully protesting on U.C. property.  That incident created an uproar across the U.S.A. 

There have been a number of cases which decided that a corporation cannot hold people in a state vassalage (forcing them to live in company housing and shop only at "the company store").  So I very much doubt that the United States would approve of a for-profit corporation establishing a government of Mars and then forcing settlers to obey a government that is merely an agent of the for-profit corporation.

In the United States, publicly regulated utilities may have the power of eminent domain to acquire right of ways for pipelines and other infrastructure but the exercise of that power is subject to judicial review.

A better question is: Will the corporation’s directors be democratically elected by Martian settlers or will the directors be appointed by oligarchs? 

Will the corporation be a cooperative corporation (one member, one vote) or a plutocratic corporation (the directors elect themselves to power year after year and become fabulously wealthy by exploiting Martian settlers)?

Ian: your proposal that a “Terran Corporation subsidizes the Martian National Government for the first few decades” inspired me to propose a much less expensive system for the colonization of Mars.  That system has the following components.

First, a sovereign or a group of sovereigns claim territorial sovereignty over Mars or a defined portion of Mars. 

Second, the sovereign(s) establish a Mars Secretariat and appoint a Director of the Mars Secretariat.

Third, they authorize the Director to issue Mars Settlement Permits to Mars Society chapters and to such other organizations as the Director may determine.

Each settlement permit allows the holders thereof to establish a settlement on Mars in accordance with the conditions stated in the permit.  The permit holders fix the location of the “Initial Point” of their settlement survey system by resolution or by placing an initial point monument on Mars.  The settlement may adopt laws that govern the settlement’s territory (144 square miles; the equivalent of 4 townships). 

Fourth, the permit authorizes the settlement to establish and maintain a “Mars Homesteads Registry” and to register the homestead claims of persons who claim ownership of lands outside of the settlement’s boundaries.  See “Recording of Mars Homestead Claims”, above.

Fifth, several chapters join together to establish a prototype Martian settlement.  The prototype will be a training center for people who are planning to emigrate to Mars.  These people will learn how to operate and repair all of the critical infrastructure that will be needed to keep Martian settlers happy and healthy.

Recording of Mars Homestead Claims

If a Mars Society chapter obtained a “Mars Settlement Permit” from the Mars Secretariat the chapter might then organize an expedition to place an “Initial Point” monument somewhere within the portion of Mars that has been claimed by the sovereign government that authorized the issuance of the Mars Settlement Permit.  Alternatively, the chapter might publish a notice that it has, by resolution, fixed the location of its settlement’s Initial Point at a particular latitude and longitude.  (Latitude and longitude coordinates for Mars may be obtained from the “Mars” section of the “Google Earth” map system.)

Below is an illustration which shows how to construct a small platform designed to protect an Initial Point monument from being inadvertently damaged.

If the sovereign allows individuals to establish “homesteads” in the portion of Mars claimed by the sovereign then the sovereign might also authorize the holders of any Mars Settlement Permit to establish and maintain a “Mars Homesteads Registry”. 

A “Homestead Claim” might consist of an individual’s claim to be the owner of an area that is up to one-half mile across (from east to west) and one-half mile long (from north to south) and that is outside of any settlement but is inside of the portion of Mars claimed by the sovereign.  A settlement that maintains a Mars Homesteads Registry may fix the fees for filing and maintaining homestead claims.  The rules of a settlement’s Mars Homesteads Registry might provide that a Homestead Claim shall expire if the annual maintenance fee is not paid for three consecutive years.  (Please note that Mars Society, Inc. has to file an annual report with the Colorado Secretary of State and the failure to file an annual report could result in the dissolution of the Society.)

I had considered advocating the amendment of the Outer Space Treaty and asking the U.N. General Assembly to ratify a Constitution of Mars that would provide for a Government of Mars that could enact land ownership laws.  However, I do not see that as practical now because the O.S.T. is so intimately connected with the non-armament principle and most of the participants in this forum are strongly in favor of a Martian government acquiring all manner of military weapons, including nuclear bombs. 

The U.N. is just not going to accept a nuclear weapons race in outer space. That is why I proposed the alternative of having a terrestrial sovereign that is not a party to the O.S.T. claim a small portion of Mars and then authorize the issuance of Mars Settlement Permits.  That would be very easy to administer because all land title records would be maintained by the settlement's government.  But asking the terrestrial sovereign to maintain land title records for thousands of family homesteads would probably doom the proposal unless the homesteaders were willing to pay the full cost of maintaining the Earth-based land title office.

As a practical matter, I do not think that the technology exists yet to make independent homesteads possible.  And even if the technology did exist the expense of purchasing and maintaining that technology would be far beyond the earning capacity of a Martian settler. 

When I was operating my farm I spent almost a quarter of my time repairing and maintaining my 4x4, bulldozer, chain saws, log splitter, electric generator, winch, welding, and other equipment.  I often had to do that kind of work during snow storms, when my hands were so cold that I could not feel what I was doing.  I cannot imagine having to do that kind of work while wearing a pressurized suit and oxygen supply.  I regularly broke the rule that you do not operate heavy equipment while you are alone.  On the day that my dozer went down the hill end-over-end, I was extremely lucky that I was not killed.

Please do not underestimate the difficulty of homesteading land, whether that land is on Earth or on Mars.

I am proposing that a "Mars Settlement Permit" allow the permit holders to establish a settlement (144 square miles).  Some or all of the settlers might establish contiguous dwellings or some of the settlers might live in dwellings that are a few miles away from any such groupings but are still inside of the settlement's boundary (a rectangle 12 miles wide by 12 miles long).  If a grouping becomes large enough to support the establishment of municipal services then the people of the settlement might enact a law that allows the establishment of municipal corporations (including cities). 

I have used the term "colony" to refer to what the Hutterites do because the Hutterites use the word colony.  And I have said before that a settlement that contains Hutterite colonies would probably not organize a city in their settlement because they do not live that way.  The average Hutterite colony contains just 60 to 160 people.

A city might adopt a law (a city ordinance) that allows the filing of maps that show the boundaries of groups of parcels of land.  These kinds of maps are often referred to as "subdivision maps".  Maybe you use these terms with different meanings in Canada so we are talking past one another.  We will have to be careful to define our terms.

And I wish that you would refer to your proposal as something other than "corporate government" because in the US we understand the fusion of government and corporate power to mean fascism, and I do not think that you intend to be advocating fascism, do you?

That is a pretty building.  However, I have always thought that the major buildings on Mars would look like the avant-garde Marin County Civic Center; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_County_Civic_Center

Google "Marin County Civic Center images" for stunning views of this outer-spacey place.

If Martians are going to be vegetarians then it would be possible to have farms incorporated into the structure of cities.  However, trying to raise goats and pigs and cattle and sheep and other domesticated critters in a city would be a very stinky task.  Raising trout and tilapia in indoor ponds might be possible.

I agree that Mars should be independent from the start, but getting the Outer Space Treaty amended is probably impossible.  So I have instead proposed that a terrestrial sovereign claim a portion of Mars and establish a law that allows the issuance of Mars settlement permits.  If that sovereign makes it clear that people in all countries on Earth may form Mars Society chapters and become eligible to obtain settlement permits then that should preclude "strife and hostility". 

You don't see the nations that have overlapping territorial claims in Antarctica warring with each other over that.  Instead, they have entered into an Antarctic Treaty and established an Antarctic Treaty Secretariat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic … ecretariat

The government of a settlement (144 square miles, for example) could enact a "Municipal Corporation Law" that allows people to form cities within settlements.  A city might define its boundary as 2 or 4 or 8 designated "Sections" (square miles) of the settlement.  For example, when I lived in Sacramento County, California there were three cities in that county.

In contrast, a settlement that contains 9 Hutterite colonies would probably not enact a law that allows the formation of cities.  The Hutterites might establish trading posts near the boundary of their settlement so that they could carry on commerce with other settlements without having the people from those other settlements penetrate into the core of the Hutterite settlement.