New Mars Forums

Oh, so that's why you didn't choose Voltaire..hehe...that's what I would have thought too...

If I had my choice, I'd pick the first person(s) to step foot on Mars to have the honors on being on the currency...also, I'd have images of the first lander, etc. 

B

Yeah, if that wild critter from the future doesn't get to it before you do...lol...

Let's just say that I'm perfectly content to be living in the year 2004, rather than let's say, 10 million years in the future... 

B

The Solar Analemma pic is pretty cool...first time I've seen a composite photo like that.  This reminds me of a visit to Longwood Gardens in southeastern PA, where there was a series of markers on the ground that marked the sun's shadow throughout every day of the year...it took them *8* years to get all the measurements, due to cloudy days, etc.  It's interesting that there is that "wobble"...this is the apparent cause of the "shifting noon" (the sun's highest point in the sky each day) throughout the year, and it also explains why the earliest sunset occurs in early Dec, the latest sunrise in early Jan, that sort of thing.

Maybe I'll get a chance construct my own solar analemma like the one in Longwood Gardens one of these days...hopefully it wouldn't take eight years, though...lol...

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The question that I have about all of this...why haven't the people in these respective countries risen up in outrage against their governments?  Or it it that they're just blind to what's happening around them, much like the frog being boiled alive? 

It really is scary to ponder the ramifications of these ticking demographic time bombs...not to mention the utter violation of basic human rights with the raping, abuse of women, etc.  I just hope *somebody* starts smelling the rot around them, and soon...

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Good post, Shaun.  Having visited Sydney in 1986, finding it to be an extremely safe city both day and night, the idea of "no-police" zones ruled by gangs clearly illustrates the changes that have taken place over the past couple of decades, and how quickly things can turn for the worse because of unyielding political paradigms. 

Here in the States, both major political parties support continued immigration, so there's no real debate on that issue...the problems come in with dealing with the actual immigrants themselves...like pregnent mothers sneaking across the Rio Grande to have a baby at an American hospital, not only is it free of cost to her, a new American citizen is created on the spot.  This, of course, leads to large numbers of Spanish-speaking kids in the schools, etc, and indeed, if I were to get into a car and drive 30 miles to the south, I would be in a 100% Spanish-speaking neighborhood, just as if I was in another country.  But what has saved this country from being obliberated by non-American cultural standards is the adoption of American-style values by a majority of immigrants throughout the past two centuries, a process that still continues today, for the large part. (Which is why America's naturalization program has such widespread support.)  People that have come to the U.S. in the past came for opportunity in exchange for hard work and for opportunites they could only dream about in their homelands.  They came and built family businesses, got involved in their communities, had families, etc.  Over the course of a generation, these immigrants are pretty much indistinguishable from "ordinary" Americans, especially since America had always been a polyglot nation pretty much from the beginning.

The threat to America then, is not from the continuing flow of immigrants over the years, but the surging numbers of "illegals"...the laborers who come over to perform jobs no one else wants (and we vitally depend on as a nation)...people who *don't* become assimilated into American culture, they generally don't learn English or start businesses (any extra money they make in the U.S. is usually wired back home), and they really have no stake in America with the exception of making a living wage.  Not to mention the waves of immigrant criminals that come over for better pickings...  The American government certainly knows about this problem, but has pretty much shut off all debate on that issue, with the exception of Bush's "guest worker" program, which would make the problem worse, imo.  Like Europe, we cannot afford to have an underclass of unwanted, unassimilated, non-naturalized immigrants...anyone with a half a brain can see this is bad for a nation...whether it be the U.S., Sweden or Australia.  And the problem seems remarkably similar in all three countries as well.  Interesting, huh?  A lot of the governments' attitude on this issue stems from economics...if we shut off or limit immigration, where would the cheap labor come from.  Businesses don't like being without cheap labor, so you can bet your bottom dollar they will keep influencing the right people in power to make sure the flow of cheap labor keeps coming (read: "illegals" or temp workers.)

I guess more of us "little people" (read: Citizens) need to start making some noise, at least...

B

You've made a very good point there, one that Alan Greenspan emphasized yesterday, telling Congress that we are "overcommitted" at this point with Social Security obligations for the soon-to-be retiring Boomers.  I'm like, with everyone living longer, etc, what's so bad about raising the retirement age (one of his suggestions) or limiting benefits to younger workers (another of his suggestions), who still have plenty of time to save for retirement and so forth.  But unfortunately, Greenspan is saying things the pols don't won't to hear, so the chances of the government actually heeding his advice is abysmally low, imo.  The question is thus:  What happens when the U.S. Treasury finally runs out of money and/or credit sometime in the future, when it's already too late to make long-term structural changes to the system?

Maybe we should start teaching basic economics in the schools, so the kids will at least have some idea of what they should expect when they grow up (like knowing that money *doesn't* grow on trees, etc).

B

Sniff, sniff....I miss that guy too...

B

Americans simply *will not* accept either option.  It just won't happen.  It won't happen in 10 years, it won't happen in a hundred. 

Anyone have any ideas where America might get the extra $$??

The question in my mind, do I buy that one-way ticket on Air New Zealand sooner, or later...? 

B

Yeah, I'd have to say the chances would be pretty dismal in that kind of a situation.

As for competiton, we'll always have that.  But the Constitution is difficult to chance for a *reason* and it should only occur if there is a valid purpose to do so.  In my mind, allowing nationals to run for President doesn't qualify as a serious enough reason to make the effort to change it.

As far I'm concerned, I'm perfectly happy to see Arnold right where he is...lol.

B

I have a friend that's going to St. Petersburg in May, among other places on a European cruise.  I'll make sure and tell him to visit the Winter Palace...so he'll take tons of pics (he's a real shutterbug..lol) to bring back home.  Wish I could go with him!   Oh well....<sighs>

As for the idea of letting immigrants run for President...I say let's nix that idea, pronto.  They put that in the U.S. Constitution for a reason...I'd rather not fix something that isn't broken, if you can catch my drift...

As for Ralph Nader, if he wants to run and help put Bush back into office this fall, then more power to him...it's not like he'll ever get himself elected or anything.  I'm sure the Democratic candidates view him as a wet blanket, indeed.

B

Cindy--

First of all, let me thank you for such an intelligent, well-thought out post     Once again, I agree with the points you bring up wholeheartely. 

The way I see human history and the rise of Western Civilization in particular...yes, the "white man" is at the center of the greatest civilization the world has ever known, beginning with the Renaissance about 500 years ago, which eventually led to democratic reforms, the implementation of Enlightenment principles, etc, and so on until the rise of the American super-state in the 20th Century.  But the "white man" just didn't make all this happen on their own.  The tenets of our present society (and all the things it has given us) stems from the rise and fall of other civilizations that have come before us, like the ancient Egyptians (they were learning to how to build 400-foot tall pyramids, not to mention mastering the art of agriculture in a desert, while the "white man" were still beating each other up with wooden clubs...lol.)  Then the Egyptians faded away, to be replaced by other great civilizations, such as the Greeks, the Romans, etc.  Let's not forget about the Islamics, too, around the time of the Middle Ages, they were on top of things with their knowledge and study of science, math, etc.  And isn't it funny that one thing that unites the *entire* world is the common use of the ten digits of "1,2,3..." for our numbering system, which was invented by the Arabs...which has proven far, far superior to the old Roman numbering system. (Which I've always thought they were "stupid" and very confusing...which is why I thought the Saturn V was the letter "V" instead of the number 5 when I was a little kid...even today, I still sometimes think of "Saturn V" letterwise, as opposed to the proper name "Saturn 5"...hehe.)  The Chinese too, as well, have made contributions to the world "basket" of knowledge...like rocketry...lol (fireworks...and they were invented a *long* time ago...)

So basically, the "white man" has taken advantage of the knowledge afforded by various generations of civilizations that have risen and fallen over the history of the human race and essentially built what we have now, which is the modern, technological world of the 21st Century.  But this is not to say that the age of the white man will last forever, indeed, it would be highly foolish to ignore the repeating patterns of human history, and not see that what generally rises, generally falls, or at that it at least gives way to something else.  I'm not saying that the U.S. will be giving way to a resurgent Chinese civilization in the next couple of decades (although it  sometimes seems that way, with everything you see in the stores Made in China, etc.), but I am saying that we do have to consider where we are and how we got here, and what's to prevent people from doing it a "better" way...which may be quite different than what we're used to.  That's generally the type of thing that starts wars, and we've got them going on right now, with no immediate end in sight. 

So with the rise of the Muslims / Chinese / Indian / other 3rd world nations/blocs, the "white man" as we know it could very well be highly marginalized over the next century, especially with globalization of trade, the shift of jobs to lower-cost regions, etc.  While this may benefit the world overall (like reducing proverty), this may very well lower living standards in the U.S. and Europe, especially with our own demographic buldge to deal with (Boomers.)

So who knows?  It certainly is a very real concern, although answers are going to be mighty tough to find...lol.  But as Cindy related to in that parable, what's "bad" (like a major economic depression) could actually turn out to be "good" (like the implentation of social programs and infrastructure that spanned generations.)  And likewise, what's been "good" for us (our vaunted standard of living) could turn "bad" on us due to rampant materialism, laziness, lack of challenges, etc.) which I honestly think are leading to many of the problems we're seeing today, especially among the youth.  If kids can have everything they want, and don't have to really worry about making a living (with all those rich parents standing by with their open billfolds, this is *especially* true in Arabic countries), no wonder why they go beserk with radical ideas, violence, etc...they've got nothing to live for in life.  To me, *that's* the problem we've got to deal with on a global basis...and that's going to be a tough one with all the material bounty we have in this modern age.

Gee...don't know what got into me this morning with all of this writing...  I'll stop here before I crash the board...lol.

B

Post Edit....As for convicting someone for blowing up an IRS building, I side with Cindy on that one too.  Destroying things is simply that...destruction, and it's a very serious crime.  That's not what we want, regardless of how much we all despise the IRS..lol.

Yeah, I hear ya on that one...lol.

The way both political parties are spending our money these days, there won't be much of anything left by the time the Boomers start collecting their checks...let alone people around my age.

B