New Mars Forums

Cobra:

I wrote a draft Martian constitution.  That constitution provides a foundation for settlers to establish municipal governments and to adopt ordinances that allow the private ownership of land, homes, and businesses and to eventually convene a parliament.  I do not want to go much further than that but if you believe that you know enough about political science to draft a constitution that can endure for 1,000 years then please do so.  Post it here for us to see.  If you think that some part of my draft constitution should be revised then please quote that part, list your objections, and suggest alternative wording.

My draft constitution does not provide for any officers.  I believe that the Mars Society can decide how many officers the Provisional Government needs from time to time.  My draft provides a foundation for subsequent steps and I cannot predict what those steps will be (my crystal ball is broken).

I set out to solve the problem of owning Mars and my draft constitution provides a solution to that problem.  It goes two steps further than that by (1) providing a foundation for an international consortium to explore and settle Mars and (2) providing for the transfer of political power from Earth to Mars when the first Martian parliament is convened. I am leaving it up to the Martians to decide whether to have a Bill of Rights, whether to have a unicameral or bicameral or tricameral legislature, and whether to divide government power into three or four or five branches.

The United States has created a huge amount of ill will around the world by invading Iraq and, before that, by murdering foreign leaders when it was deemed expedient to do so.  If you try to topple the Outer Space Treaty so that the United States can exert sovereignty over Mars then you will unnecessarily cause more and more resentment against the United States.

While I was traveling through Europe in the early 70s I was smashed in the back and knocked down onto my knees.  The U.S. flag that I had sewn onto my backpack was ripped in half during that attack.  I subsequently met other Americans who had removed the flags from their packs and one young American woman had sewn a Canadian flag onto her pack in order to avoid being attacked AGAIN!

I believe that it would be a serious mistake for the U.S. to abrogate the Outer Space Treaty because the rest of the world will just become more and more alienated with what they perceive to be our arrogance.  It is unnecessary to stir up that kind of trouble because it is so very easy to sidestep the Outer Space Treaty and the Moon Treaty.  The Moon Treaty is built on and is consistent with the Outer Space Treaty. The Moon Treaty contains an exception clause that allows the establishment of "legal norms" for Mars and other bodies.  We should make use of that exception clause and we should invite all nations to participate in The Euthenia Project.  Furthermore, we should make allowances for nations that cannot afford to pay a full share of the cost of that project, and it will not bother me if you want to call that "welfare."  The Euthenia Project could have a more positive influence on international relations than the United Nations will ever have.  The Euthenia Project will be worth every cent the U.S. spends on it.

Mundaka:

You wrote that you disagree with my "utopian philosophy."  Several other people have used the term "utopian" to describe my proposal to build a prototype Martian settlement. 

In other sections of this forum I have written that I expect The City of Euthenia to have a police department and several jail cells.  So I am definitely not trying to design a utopia.  However, it would be preferable if those jail cells were empty almost all of the time.

One of these days I will add a page to my proposal and describe how Euthenia's governance system might be structured.  I will be sure to mention the police and the jail.  That should dispel any notion that I am proposing a utopia.

Mundaka:

You wrote, "I know YOU mean well, but your faith in the UN is misguided, and your logic will result in more misery than anything else." 

You have incorrectly assumed that I have faith in the U.N.  And please do not assume that I have faith in the "full faith and credit of the United States" because I do not.  I do not own and do not want to own any U.S. Treasury bonds!

The U.S. is a party to the Outer Space Treaty.  This simple fact is part of the legal landscape and I have done my best to deal with this fact.  You can complain and complain and complain about the Outer Space Treaty and the U.N. but your complaining will not alter that Treaty or the bad habits of the U.N.

One of my political science professors told us that, "Politics is the art of the possible." I have analyzed the Outer Space Treaty and the Moon Treaty in order to find "the possible" and I have drafted documents that build on the posibilities that I have found in those treaties.  Those treaties are not getting in my way.  You can complain and complain and complain about those treaties but don't expect me to validate your complaints because those treaties are not getting in my way.  I found a way through that legal thicket.  Those treaties are NOT getting in my way!

Cobra:

The first paragraph of Article 19 of the Outer Space Treaty reads, "This Agreement shall be open for signature by all States at United Nations Headquarters in New York."  The Moon Treaty has a similar provision.  Both of these treaties are sponsored by the U.N.  You can complain about these treaties all you want to but they are not going to go away.  I have done my best to cope with this existing legal environment. 

You asked, "Doesn't this strike you as a hindrance?  Besides, if the US sets up a colony under direct US sovereignty, others will follow, technology will advance, society will progress and all of humanity will benefit. Not all at once and perhaps not equally, but these treaties ensure that no one benefits."

No, I do not see these treaties as a hindrance.  The Moon Treaty leaves the door open for the kind of "legal norms" that I have proposed.  The Outer Space Treaty and the Moon Treaty are not getting in my way.  And since you are not prepared to lead a campaign to repeal these treaties you should simply try to find a way to make the best of them, as I have.

You wrote, "Fine, let Uzbekistan and East Timor and whomever have a neighborhood. What does it have to do with the actual settlement of Mars?"  Many of the residents of The City of Euthenia would work in a near-by rocket factory, building the colony ships that would take Euthenians to Mars.

You wrote, "Cultures happen in response to a multitude of factors, they aren't consciously created to fulfill a specific purpose."  The Jews who built kibbutzim believed that they were building communities would one day join together to become a nation.  Their nation-building efforts succeeded. And the Cornell Peru Project is an example of cultural engineering that worked very well. See "The Process of Accelerating Community Change," by Allan R. Holmberg and Henry F. Dobyns, in Human Organization, the journal of the Society for Applied Anthropology. 

And see "revitalization movement."  Anthropologists use this term to describe the efforts of a group of people to build a more satisfying way of life.  Such movements usually have a spiritual foundation, but not always.

In summary, "cultural engineering" is more common and more successful than you have imagined.  And I have no doubt that the Euthenians would succeed in their efforts to create a sociocultural system that is adapted to the Martian ecosystem.

You asked, "Why not begin with a provisional system that will lay the groundwork for, and naturally transition into, a permanent system?"  Bingo!  That is exactly what I have tried to do.  Section 4 of the Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars reads, "A statute is a law adopted pursuant to this Constitution. Before the establishment of two permanent human settlements on Mars, statutes may be adopted, amended, or repealed during any annual meeting of the Mars Society. After the establishment of two permanent human settlements on Mars, statutes may be adopted, amended, or repealed in accordance with statutes adopted by a Parliament composed of equal numbers of representatives from each settlement."  I hope that there will be an early and smooth transition to "home rule" on Mars.

Clark:

You asked, "How do you propose to get people to believe in the words and the ideas?" 

From a legal perspective, the settlement strategy that I have proposed is "procedural" rather than "substantive."  I have not and will not propose a Martian constitution which provides that all Martians are created equal and that they have a set of unalienable rights.  The  people of each Martian settlement can adopt ordinances that prescribe what rights and obligations the members of a settlement have.  That is the appropriate level for "substantive" matters to be decided.

The draft Martian constitution that I wrote provides steps that people can take to establish a settlement. Those steps are similar to how people would go about forming a corporation.

Thinking about this from a procedural perspective, the next step for me would be to ask the Mars Society to adopt the constitution that I drafted.  If the Mars Society did adopt it then the Society would appoint someone to ask the United Nations to ratify the constitution.  Then, if the United Nations did ratify it, the Mars society would adopt statutes that provide for the election of officers of the Provisional Government of Mars.  Those officers could organize a Mars Development Bank and then the Bank could invite a number of nations to participate in an international consortium to colonize Mars.  The consortium might build a prototype Martian settlement,  something like my proposal for The City of Euthenia.

Cobra:

You wrote, "The Moon and Outer Space Treaties are based in flawed quasi-Marxist concepts and the UN charter is little better. All three examples are deeply flawed."  I have a bachelors degree in economics.  I have read the works of Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Karl Marx, etc.  I do not see "quasi-Marxist" concepts in the UN charter.  And even if you do that is totally irrelevant.  We have to deal with international laws as they are not as you would like them to be.

You wrote, "I would have started with the Constitution of the United States of America and worked from there, but you are certainly entitled to your approach."  A Martian settlement of a few hundred people does not need a governance structure as complex as the governance structure established by the U.S. Constitution.  A few hundred people are NOT going to divide themselves into a number of States and then elect Senators and Representatives.

The U.S. Constitution contains provisions for declaring war and for organizing an army and a navy.  Martians should not adopt a constitution that promotes such foolishness.

You wrote, "There will be warfare on Mars eventually, unless we stay the hell off the planet! To deny this is to indulge in preposterous and dangerous fantasy."  Do you fantasize about going to Mars and killing people?  If you were going to emigrate to Mars, would you take weapons with you?  What kind of weapons?  Swords?  Rifles?  Nuclear bombs?

Cobra:

You wrote, "Even in my example, the expansionism was not particularly aggressive."  The expansion that you described, the actual invasion of another settlement's territory, is highly aggressive.

The draft constitution that I wrote provides that a settlement's Center Monument may not be located within 21 kilometers of any other settlement's Center Monument.  That rule would generate a settlement pattern that leaves a 1-kilometer-wide buffer zone between settlement boundaries.  Thus, there would be no boundary disputes or border wars. 

I included this 21-kilometer rule in the draft constitution so that the United Nations General Assembly would (1) see the constitution as a plan that promotes the peaceful and orderly settlement of Mars and then (2) ratify the Mars Society's adoption of that constitution.

Yes, a slower growing population would be "overwhelmed" in the numerical sense but that does not have to lead to warfare and genocide. If people respect the 21-kilometer rule then there will not be any warfare on Mars.

Many science fiction authors have spiced up their works by creating war stories on Mars.  That kind of fiction can be entertaining but people should not accept it as the way that things will be on Mars.  We do NOT have to create circumstances that will lead to genocide.

Cobra:

You wrote, "When given the choice between stifling your population growth or expanding into new territory, always expand. Otherwise you'll be expanded into by someone less bound by trendy social engineering dogma."

I disagree with your prediction.  The people of Mars will be smart enough to realize that if they conduct themselves in an aggressively expansionistic way then they will alarm their neighbors and thereby cause those neighbors to begin building weapons.

The Hutterites are a good an example of responsible, non-aggressive expansionism.  The Hutterites are pacifists and they are the fastest growing population on Earth (an average of 10 children per married couple).  The Hutterites have a policy of not building so many of their colonies in any one county that they would threaten the majority status of their non-Hutterite neighbors.  The Hutterites are not interested in taking control of local governments.  The Hutterites know that government is an institution that has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. The Hutterites do not want to use force against each other or against their non-Hutterite neighbors so they strive to remain in the minority.

The Hutterites practice non-violence and they have the good sense not to threaten their neighbors.  The people of Mars could be and probably will be just as smart as the Hutterites.

Aetius wrote, "Scott has a unique vision for a better society, which I don't personally share."

Thank you for disagreeing with me in a polite manner.  You have set a good example for the other people who post messages in this forum.

:;):

Clark wrote. "Besides, with a Moon colony of some sort, and perhaps trips to the asteroids, we can start to build a realistic economic case for Mars. Find the silver where you can." 

I agree that we should look for the "silver-lining" in Bush's new space objectives.  Bush did not propose a "Mars Direct" program so we should do our best to put as much Mars as we can into what has been proposed.  For example, we should advocate that facilities that are constructed on Luna  shall be referred to as prototype Martian stations and prototype Martian settlements.  This makes it clear that Luna is a step on the road to Mars rather than a destination in itself.

Pendragon:

You wrote, "People differ in their opinions and peer pressure won't make them agree in all cases."  I agree.  However, you have not specified how many people you believe should live in one neighborhood and how that might affect the number of police and jail cells that are needed to maintain a stable social order.  Should there only be 50 people in each neighborhood or 500?

You wrote, "If you did get a group of people who agreed (usually due to preselection of the members) the results could be horrible."  You are absolutely right.  However, the members of legislatures all over this planet reach agreements hundreds of times each day on a bewildering variety of issues and they are thereby able to keep their societies functioning "normally," although there are probably a number of civil wars going on right now. And the people caught up in those wars would probably agree that their situation is "horrible."  So what is your point?

You asked, "Aren't we taught in school not to listen to peer pressure?"  I was NEVER taught that lesson in school.  The teachers in public schools are, in general, not inclined to teach their pupils to think for themselves.  As public servants, they mostly teach, "swear allegiance, register for the draft, take this rifle, fly to Viet Nam, kill those people, do NOT question your orders." 

What happens to teachers who encourage their students to think for themselves?  This was a central issue  in the movie "Dead Poets Society."  (This movie did not have a happy ending.)

Clark:

You wrote, "Phi day = Esperanto."  That is an apt analogy.  Esperanto is an artificial language and its authors intended that it should unite people all around the world.  A PhiDay celebration in The City of Euthenia would have a similar function; uniting people who had come together from all around this world to take life to the next world, Mars.

You asked, "When you make cookies, would you rather use sugar, or artifical sweetner?"  I would prefer a sweetner other than sugar because of the corrosive effect that sugar has on human tissues. 

Your mention of cookies has given me an idea.  On PhiDay, children could bake cookies that have the shape of a regular pentagon.  They could decorate those cookies with pentagrams (5-pointed stars).  The lines of a pentagram cut each other into line segments that have the relative proportions Phi, one, and phi (the reciprocal of Phi is equal to 0.618033... and it is usually spelled with a lower case "p").

Young children could use pentagon-shaped cookie cutters that had been made by older children in their high school metal shop classes.  Those cookie cutters might be fashioned from sheet metal that has a significant gold content (i.e., 10 percent gold).

You wrote, "If you're going to make a holiday of this thing, might I suggest you give it some physical, as in corporeal, form."  How about PhiMan!  He would be dressed in a Superman-like costume of red, green, blue and gold, with a big pentagram on his chest and a large belt buckle in the shape of a Phi symbol.  He would have a red cape that has the proportions of a Golden Triangle.  At the end of the PhiDay celebration he would dive off of the high-dive in the city natatorium, saying loudly, as he strode confidently to the end of the diving board "3, 2, 1, 1" (as in the Fibonacci sequence).  After "launch," he would say "to Mars."  He would be diving toward a large image of Mars that had been placed on the bottom of the pool.  After setting this example, children would follow him "to Mars."  Then their parents would wrap them in towels and take them home to change them into dry clothes.  This would be the conclusion of the PhiDay celebration.

Take a look at the "to Mars" drawing that I have posted at [http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/exhibit4.htm]http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/exhibit4.htm
Children could "fuel" themselves by eating a "to Mars" cookie just before going off the high dive.

I started this discussion with the title "A New Vision for Mars, Include Ordinary People and Their Kids."  My description of the PhiDay celebration probably sounds childish and that is exactly what I intend.  PhiDay should be a celebration that is especially fun for children to participate in.  The ultimate purpose of PhiDay is to inspire children to work together, as a team, to take life to Mars.