New Mars Forums

I've made the assumption that if the tether is extremely long, and the rotation rate extremely slow, that any Coriolis effects acting on the spinning dish of mercury will be negligible.

Can anyone tell me if this is a sound assumption?

I'm also guessing that if the coriolis effects are small enough, the resulting blurring effects will also be small. Perhaps the secondary mirror or camera lenses can be shaped to correct for this. The slight astigmatism in the direction of rotation may also be corrected in the same way.

Perhaps there is a possibility (though unlikely) that some of these effects may actually work with each other to improve the accuracy of the telescope. For example, perhaps the astigmatism in the direction of rotation may work with the effects of motion blur and the effects of moving the CCD (or the secondary mirror), in such a way that these effects, taken together, increase the accuracy of the telescope? Perhaps the coriolis effects may fit in somewhere in the scheme of things as well?

Here is the link for the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_mi … _telescope

You can see that I've added a link to this thread as reference. I know I probably shouldn't add a link to my own work, but we'll see what happens.

Hey, I've just added a whole bunch of stuff to my web forum/blog: http://cleanslate.editboard.com

Check out the 'Clean Slate Solution' and the 'Clean-Slate City-State' threads and let me know what you think:

http://cleanslate.editboard.com/Discuss … on-t23.htm

http://cleanslate.editboard.com/Discuss … te-t19.htm

I understand now why they might call Mars the 'gateway to the stars'.

Returning back to the Paris rocket; I just thought of a method that could be used to launch it (the following applies to the Paris VII configuration):

Imagine that the triangular space between each tank is filled with solid metal (bare with me for a sec) from the top to bottom. Six of these strucutres will act to connect the tanks together, and they also reinforce the whole launch vehicle. Now imagine that these metal structures are bored from the top down along half their length. The bottom half is similarly bored upwards, but with a slightly reduced bore diameter, until the tubes are connected. The smaller bore at the bottom is then machined with a set of grooves, similar to an internal screw thread. However, once this is done, opposite sides of the grooved bore are machined so that they are flush with the bore of the top tube (i.e. the top bore is extended through the grooved bore in two lines) so that half of the grooved area is removed.

Now, round steel columns will be fitted within each tube.
The lower half of each column will be thinner than the top, encased in insulating concrete, while the top half of the steel column will be machined with a matching array of grooves. These grooves will again be machined in a similar manner, so that they interlock with the inside of the lower tube, but can slide freely within it if they are turned a quarter-turn. A smaller section at the bottom of the column will also be machined with these grooves.

At the very top of each column will be a piston which can slide freely within the upper half of the tube and seals against it. Once the columns are fitted by lowering them through the top of the tube (with the column turned a quarter-turn so that it can slide all the way in), a cap is fitted to the top of each tube to seal it. This then creates an air-tight cylinder from which the column can act as a piston.

For additional support, another six tube and column assemblies can be mounted around the periphery of the launch vehicle. Now, at this point I should point out that these tubes will probably not be made out of solid metal, but rather some sort of lighter-weight design will be used.

This is how the vehicle might be assembled in the VAB:

First, a few tube-and-column assemblies are mounted upright onto the MLP platform. For each column, there will be a short bore with interlocking grooves bored into the MLP platform directly beneath it. This is so the bottom section of each column can be lowered into it, and when quarter-turned, they will lock with the MLP. Once a few tube-and-column assemblies are affixed to the MLP, the huge tanks (complete with engines) can be brought in one at a time and bolted to the tube-and-column assemblies. Thus the columns will act as supports as each tank is added, keeping their engines off the ground.

Once all 12 tube-and-column assemblies, and all 7 tanks (including payload), are affixed together, the completed launch vehicle can be rolled out of the VAB using the existing crawler-transporters.

Now heres where it all comes together:

Once the vehicle reaches its designated launch site, the crawler transporter stops, and compressed air is pumped into the top of each tube. At this point, the columns are still locked within the tube and the MLP, but once sufficient pressure is built up to support the dry weight of the launch vehicle on air pressure alone, each column is turned a quarter-turn, unlocking them. Air continues to be pumped so that the vehicle is eventually lifted right into the air; so far that the piston at the top of the column is at the bottom of the upper (smooth-bored) tube. At this point, the columns are again turned a quarter-turn, locking them to both the MLP and the launch vehicle.

All of the vehicles 49 engines are now so far up in the air (maybe 40 meters above the surface of the MLP) that there will be no need for blast diversion channels or any sort of permanent launch pad structure (although a traditional launch tower will probably be maintained for crew loading, systems monitoring, fuel management, and the like).

With all 12 columns locked to the MLP and vehicle, the fuel tanks can now be filled in preperation for lift-off. All 49 engines can then be tested for a few seconds while the columns hold the vehicle down. If all engines are go, all 12 columns are quickly quarter-turned (perhaps explosively); instantly releasing them from the launch vehicle.

To aid their quick release, the grooves may be helically cut at a 45-degree angle: perhaps clockwise at the bottom and anticlockwise at the top, so that when they are turned, the acceleration of the vehicle provides some of the force needed to turn them, and also so that the columns remain anchored to the MLP when they are unlocked from their tubes. Also, the pistons at the top of each column will be designed to safely shear off when the launch vehicle is released.

The four first-stage tanks will each bring with them 2 tube assemblies, and 2 extra engines (in addition to their own 7 engines), when they are spent and released. The two second stage tanks will shed the remaining 4 tube assemblies, so that the middle tank carries no additional mass to orbit.

Yeah thanks for the extra discussion, but I was really hoping to know how much effect the lower Mars gravity has on payload. Thanks.

C'mon space dudes. Am I a genius or what?

Yeah, thanks for providing that link Josh, it seems to be an interesting site.

The other big killer idea is to design and plan the city entirely in a comprehensive virtual environment. Doing this would have many huge advantages, many of which concern generating international investment.

I've often wondered whether international governments or organizations might jump on the project. The city will be a huge investment opportunity on its own. I remeber New Scientist magazine published an article suggesting that a clean-slate 'Ecopolis' might be the only hope for the future of mankind (it was them not me!). Esperance City should attract the minds of many environmentalists (and doom-sayers, I guess).

I dunno, I guess the potential is obvious, and what is not obvious only gets better as you look into it further.

Yeah, I think thats a view from within Cape Arid. The proposed site of Esperance City will be about 100km further east down this coast, well away from the national park, but sharing the same breathtaking beaches.

Edit: Actually, according to this map, the proposed site is well within the boundaries of the park! It is very close to the area marked 'Isralite Bay'. Hmm... must have not done my research properly.

Nevertheless, the fact that this area is protected with national park status should attest to the beauty of the region. Likewise, the term 'Cape Arid' suggests at how dry and barren most of the land here is. Hopefully, the Australian government will allow the clean-slate city to be built here if proper assurances are made that the park remain protected. Construction will have to be concentrated within a restricted area, rather than have development sprawl throughout the park.

I like the fact that you ask these questions though. Why don't you check out http://www.cleanslatesociety.com and post some of your ideas there?

Hey Marsman, love what you're saying there.

IMHO, diversification should be embraced.

How many of us here have studied marketing? I think we can definately learn a thing or two. The whole science of marketing seems fascinating to me...

I hope to trial a few new ideas to market my site (http://cleanslate.editboard.com) once I get it up to standard.

I created this site as a response to the amount of apathy that I have witnessed throughout my life. It seemed to me that people are too content with current systems that they have no interest in improving upon them. Perhaps this is because their lives are so comfortable, or perhaps they are too agnostic to get involved. Either way, I think this sort of apathy can be potentially quite dangerous.

I think Edmund Burke hit a nail when he said: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

I very much enjoyed reading Zubrins arguments for the necessesity of the frontier, and the potential for a clean-slate martian society. However, I think he too easily convinced himself that such a frontier, and such a society, could only develop off-planet, so to speak.

With this site, I am giving anyone the opportunity to be a part of something that I honestly believe has the potential to be very, very big. Whether such a clean-slate society is ever given the chance to form is, I think, a matter for the future. What I think is important, is that we start thinking about where we can make improvements, today. Perhaps todays societies will implement such changes tomorrow, and we will never need such a radical 'proof of concept', like the United States and its revolutionary ideals was to the rest of the world in its time. Or perhaps todays governments and businessmen and the like, will learn from their past ignorance, and actually promote and invest in the formation of such a clean-slate society.

Personally, I remain too agnostic and naive to know whether Zubrins arguments about Mars being the only suitable media are just.

Although history repeats, I believe every situation is unique. We may prefer to simplify things, to see them in black & white, in order to make them more palatable to our logical brains perhaps. But more often than not, this ignores the true color of the situation. To be honest, the world is so complex today, that you have to be agnostic.

So lets be naive together, and at least give it a try. You never know what might happen.

IMHO, the only reason Ares V uses 5-segs is because they're needed for The Stick anyway.

If the 5-seg SRB is too underpowered for the heavier Orion, then we need a bigger and more powerful SRB! (And if its not underpowered, then 6-segment SRB's will still be fun...)

A 6-segment SRB with the same thrust might give more burn time, and with the extra weight, decrease g-loading at the same time?

This is why:

http://themis.asu.edu/landingsites/MSL_ … _table.pdf

I bet most of these sites aren't anywhere near 1000km from each other.

Remember that the surface area of mars is equal to all the continents on earth. We cannot effectively explore such a vast land if we are restricted to sites only 800km from the previous. That would be inefficient and boring.