New Mars Forums

I just now received in the mail the following items from the Mars Society:

1.  The 5th International MS Convention registration form and list of conference sessions.

2.  A 1-page letter (printed on both sides) from Dr. Zubrin regarding topic outlines for discussion at the Convention.

3.  The "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement," which states:

a.  I am entitled to 1 acre of Marsian land;
b.  the recommendation any future Marsian polity should reward me with this 1 acre of land;
c.  I should have the assurance of the ability to enjoy this land through the right to free immigration and full Marsian citizenship.

What was your reaction to receiving this, if you've already gotten it in the mail?  The sentiments expressed are nice, and I view this as a request from him that MS members be recognized with rewards for their support of the MS.  However, upon reading it, I did feel perplexed.  I really don't like the idea of people *owning* parts of Mars.  "No, you cannot explore that canyon; it's on my property."  "Mons Olympus belongs to the USA; foreigners will have to apply for rights to study it." 

Mars "belongs" to humanity.  I think it should be absolutely open to everyone who can go, with wide-open possibilities for settlement, eventual colonization, exploration, working at terraforming, etc., before we even begin to think about dishing up pieces of "the pie."  I think the only ownership persons on Mars should have are their own personal items and their immediate living and sleeping quarters; everyone needs a level of privacy and "space."

What are Dr. Zubrin's political leanings?

--Cindy

This Yankee isn't much of a sports fan, but I do see your point about calling it "soccer."  Where did that term come from?  It should be called football, since 99.9% of it is played with the feet (and the rest with occasional head hits).  Why American football is called "football" is strange even to me; the only time the ball connects with the players' feet in that game is when they're punting or kicking; otherwise, it's mostly cradled in the players' arms as they're dashing for the goal or is being tossed through the air by hand.

I live in the desert southwest of the USA [New Mexico], a scant 55 miles from the US-Mexican border; El Paso, Texas is a neighboring city.  The recent US vs Mexican soccer game was a big thing around here.  Mexicans almost began rioting on one of the Bridges of the Americas [an official border crossing] when they'd lost. 

It doesn't matter to me.  The only sports I care about are swimming on Mars, ice-skating on Mars, and rocket-belt races on Mars! 

--Cindy

Hi Byron:

I can't really take on this subject from a "mechanical" point of view, but I can from a more "artistic" point of view.

As for inner decor, what buildings are designed to look like from the outside, etc., here goes:

I'm sure that initially the buildings will be rather uniform and geared toward utility and function.  However, if and when astronauts turn into settlers, particularly multi-generational settlers, I think the architecture or "style" on Mars will either tend toward (continued) functionality and be gracefully subdued -or- very innovative and unusual (maybe even "wild") colors and shapes will be used, particularly indoors.  Probably the latter, in lieu of living in a place devoid of any flora or fauna except what's been imported from Earth or grown on Mars itself.

I guess I can't answer your question about *architecture* per se, but I've given thought to what private dwellings, work spaces, etc., will look like.  I prefer splashy colors, textures, and shapes to monotony or the subdued.

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

I can't recall the appropriate name for them, but they were popular in 1950s [that was before my time, mind you!] science fiction shows.  It looked like a back-pack [wherein the fuel was stored] which strapped onto the shoulders, and maneuvering could be done with gadgets on the hand grips attached to the "back-pack."  Maybe the US military actually even had these at one time?

Would this be a feasible way of getting around on Mars?  Or is it likely you'd just get your rump toasted like a marshmallow?

Considering how it gets [according to a more learned person here than I] even colder just a meter up from the surface, and continues to get colder the higher up you go, would a properly-designed spacesuit protect from the cold?  What kind of fuel would be needed for the flying "back-pack," and would it be in danger of freezing?  Of course, the astronaut could stay close to the ground.

Just wondering...

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Mark S:  "Still, the world community is convinced of the theory's veracity and has drafted the Kyoto Protocol in response.  The treaty dumps the burden of reducing emissions on the United States and other western countries that have taken great steps to fight air nd water pollution.  But countries like China, which continue to flaunt air pollution standards, are exempted because they are "too poor" to comply."

*Sure, it's easier to point fingers at the wealthy nations.  I'm not seeking to undermine the problems of pollution and global warming, mind you -- however, portions of the conversation remind me of the attempt by various African nations to get the US and England (primarily) to pay restitution for the trans-Atlantic slave trade.  This demand, even though many African nations still take and hold other Africans in slavery, and had done so for centuries before Europeans set foot on their shores to buy slaves from African tribal chieftains.

It's obvious to me that the Western nations formerly involved in the trans-Atlantic slave trade are *only* being given these demands for slavery reparations/restitution because we've got deep pockets.  If this *isn't* the case, then I'd like to hear how it is that African-to-African slavery is "okay" and why non-African-to-African slavery isn't.  This is hypocrisy, pure and simple.

So, yes, I have absolutely ZERO doubt that the USA and other Western/developed nations get an extra tromping on due simply to politics, jealousy, our deep pockets, etc.  Sure, the US has contributed its share to the pollution problem, and we should own up to it, deal with it, try to correct it, etc.  But, yes, there are many political undercurrents at play as well...and some of them are purely anti-Western.

Okay, off my soap box now.  Sorry if this was a bit of a digression, but I felt it should be said.

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Bill White:  "I find I can find good points on both sides yet I am troubled at the idea of being Panglossian about the potential fate of much of humanity.  See Cindy, I have read some Voltaire!"

*Oh, my dear Pangloss!  Oh, my dear Cunegonde!  Oh, I wonder how my beloved Voltaire came up with such unusual names for his characters!   

I recommend everyone read Voltaire, and am glad to know you have

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Phobos writes:  "Anyways, I've been looking at NASA websites to see if I could find a clip of that video where it shows the stages detaching from each other in space.  You wouldn't happen to know by any chance where I could download that?"

No, I'm sorry I don't.   

Have you watched the movie "Apollo 13"?  The blast-off scene in the movie looks oh-so-authentic, including the stages of detachment.  Ron Howard should've won an Oscar for Best Director that year!

--Cindy 

MS member since 6/01

Here's a news link regarding this topic [hopefully I related the matter correctly in my previous post, which was based on viewing only a short -- perhaps 1-minute in length -- news segment]:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc....Physics

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

*Hmmmm, I don't know.  See, to my way of thinking, using Phobos and Deimos as "stepping-stones" of sorts to getting to Mars makes as much sense as, say, Neptunians seeking to use our moon in order to help in the exploration and colonization process of an uninhabited Earth.  Why not just go to Earth?

Sure, landing robots or even humans on Phobos or Deimos might have its merits, but I think the focus should remain on Mars itself; its moons can wait -- IMO.

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Phobos:  "What are your opinions on the Star Wars missile defense initiative?"

*It sure seems to be THE pet project of Republicans.  It keeps their wealthy corporate friends in the green, doesn't it?

What angers me even more than the fact that this money could go to fund space exploration programs is the fact that many working, blue-collar people can't afford health insurance (if it's not provided by the employer, and in many instances it's not), and that many senior citizens are forced to decide between adequate nutrition (i.e., an adequate supply of monthly groceries) or their outrageously priced prescription medications.  For the wealthiest nation in the world, this is truly an outrageous and unforgiveable disgrace.  :angry:

The USA Treasury is more than able to maintain an adequate defense/military system AND give **generously** to space advocacy organizations/programs AND provide health insurance benefits/options for the working uninsured AND keep old people comfortable and well fed.

Talk about misplaced priorities! 

--Cindy

Shaun writes:  "Just to throw another curve-ball into the argument, I have another little problem I like to try and ignore! Mars has no overall, uniform, magnetic field. I'm no zoologist but I know that many species here on Earth rely on a strong steady magnetic field in order to function properly (or at all! ). What if far more species than we realise have to have such a field in order to live?!"

*Hmmm.  When you say "no overall, uniform magnetic field" I am presuming correctly that this means the magnetic field is stronger in some areas than others -- ?  Is it entirely absent in some areas of Mars?

How much stronger is Earth's magnetic field as compared to that of Mars?  Do the magnetic fields on Mars have an "ebb and flow" in intensity/strength in the areas where they are (stronger or weaker)?

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Well, since we're on the subject...

On page 118 of the paperback version of _The Case for Mars_ are diagrams of what the Mars Direct hab will look like inside (in two cut-across illustrations).

I see that each bedroom -- and another area not identified (what is it supposed to be?), which separates the bedrooms into two on one side of it, and two on the other -- abutts onto the area (semi-circular in shape) identified as "bathroom."

Does each astronaut have a private area of the bathroom to him/herself?  There is no division of the Bathroom area.  I'm presuming any waste will be dumped in space, like they did in the Apollo missions (and, I suppose, as they do on the shuttle and space station).  However, what will be the method of keeping clean?  I presume showers are out of the question.  I'm thinking along the lines of a sponge bath?  Perhaps reusable sanitary towelettes? 

Another issue (which couldn't be addressed during the Apollo missions, but probably has been during the MIR and International Space Station stints) is the problem of hair.  Men, of course, need to shave regularly; the Apollo astronauts could not shave because any stray hairs were a very potential hazard risk to the delicate instrumentation.  Besides, they were returning home within a week; no big deal.  Perhaps having a beard and mustache won't matter en-route to Mars and back to Earth; maybe it won't matter inside a spacesuit during a Mars mission.  However, unless people want the hair on their heads grown down past their buttocks by the time they return to Earth (I'm referring strictly to the first crews of Marsian astronauts, and not settlers or colonists), there's going to have to be a way to cut hair and/or shave heads with minimum hazard risk.

?

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01