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#9501 Re: Civilization and Culture » Children growing up on Mars - ..problems and possible solutions... » 2002-07-07 22:24:51
In regards to other threads dealing with the topic of children growing up on Mars, I've been wondering what it will be like for a child to be born and raised on Mars.
I think the biggest concern is the .38 g and how it will affect children's physiological development...so it would be reasonable to assume that without the weighted infant suits that Cindy mentioned in another thread...
*Here's a partial repost of what I'd written earlier, which you mention [I've already touched on the lower-gravity issue, at least partially]:
"This is just ONE of the challenges of having a baby on Mars...particularly for those early settlers. Providing adequate nutrition is another headache. Suppose the child is lactose intolerant? Can't just run down to the local Wal-Mart and pick up ProSobee or Enfamil because mom's breast milk makes baby sick, and the powdered cow's milk in the hab only gets spit back up.
Based on all this and other related matters -- I didn't touch on the issue of DIAPERING, did I? What will diapers be made out of? Can't have disposable diapers there -- how will they be cleaned? Babies go through LOTS of them, and the laundering process of cloth diapers is an everyday busy task in and of itself."
Other problems which immediately come to mind are foot wear for Marsian children; kids grow fast -- how to make more boots/shoes or alterable boots/shoes? Better have a Marsian cobbler, or the equivalent thereof, at least in the early days of native Marsians being born. Their clothing [even if weighted] will have to be easily alterable to accommodate growth spurts.
It's been anticipated at the message board previously that the children will receive good education relative to science, engineering, etc...fine, but what if a musical genius ala Mozart comes along? Will musical instruments, art supplies, etc., be provided to stimulate creativity? I suppose so; I hope so.
What worries me the most are the 1st and 2nd generation children especially; they will always being confined, either to a hab or to a spacesuit [if going outdoors], and will hear mom and dad or grandparents talking about bicycling, swimming, playing in parks, fishing, flying kites, etc., etc. There'll be many things older relatives will have done on Earth that these kids will never get to do on Mars. That might easily breed resentment.
I'll probably think of a few more things to add later.
--Cindy
#9502 Re: Not So Free Chat » First Cause - Newton's Deism vs. Evolution vs. - ? » 2002-07-07 11:13:27
Anyways, I think Voltaire would have made some witty comment about how obvious it is that we share a common ancestory with monkeys based on human nature. People like Voltaire and Newton probably wouldn't have had much of a disagreement once they heard all of the evidence Darwin had collected. They were, after all, some of the most reasonable people of thier era.
*Yes, they were exceptionally reasonable people. Still, I wonder how the theory of evolution would've changed the scope and thrust of the Enlightenment era; how different the Enlightenment would've been if, say, Darwin had lived and published his material around 1750. It would definitely have disrupted the course of the Enlightenment as we now know it [not that that in and of itself would have necessarily been a bad thing..........except that Darwin might've been hung or burned]. It's pointless to speculate, of course, but again -- it'd be the height of irony for me if Deistic beliefs/concepts are what, in great part, fueled the Enlightenment! Geez! ???
Then again, Voltaire & Co. might have embraced Darwin's theory after careful, critical study of it...they could, I suppose, easily chalk it [evolution] up as the process of the clock being built by the Clockmaker. 
--Cindy
#9503 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Calling All Anarchists - Definition, please? » 2002-07-07 10:51:26
Yeah, that's a good read. Heck, I like anything of Chomsky, really.
But a lot of ?real? anarchists don't like Chomsky because he discusses foreign issues more than he goes to Black Bloc's, but I think he's making a good example of himself.
*What is "Black Bloc's" - ?
And as for "real"...I just love it when any group of somewhat like-minded people begin that high-horse rhetoric: "WE are THE REAL [fill in the blank]." Funny thing is, you get two, three, maybe even more major group[lets] who insist THEY are THE REAL [fill in the blank]. It can be amusing at times. 
--Cindy
#9504 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc. » 2002-07-07 10:18:33
Sounds like a handy pack of cards. I wonder if Amazon would carry something like that. I like the idea of using stellar guideposts to try find the object your looking at.
Just out of curiosity how do you go about finding objects in the sky? Do you prefer to just plug in the coordinates so to speak or do you find things the old fashioned way?
*Amazon might. The "Astrocards" -- or their updated version -- might still be advertised in astronomy magazines.
As to your 2nd question: I locate deep-sky objects the old-fashioned way -- star hopping. <!--emo&:)
--Cindy
#9505 Re: Not So Free Chat » First Cause - Newton's Deism vs. Evolution vs. - ? » 2002-07-07 00:03:16
'lo Cindy.
That's the thing. Evolution doesn't profess to say how we got here. For all we know we were ?seeded? here many millions of years ago by an alien civilization. Evolution just defines how things have been going for awhile.
Hi Josh:
Yeah, I guess I temporarily lost sight of what you so adequately point out. ???
I've found myself wondering how Newton, Voltaire, and like-minded colleagues of the Enlightenment era would have differed in their deistic sentiments if Darwin had preceeded them, i.e. how the theory of evolution may have changed their viewpoints and perhaps compelled them to become atheists...or perhaps may have pushed them in the other direction. The Enlightenment ideals did, for the most part, center around the belief that mankind is superior to all other creatures on Earth. I wonder how the idea of us evolving from monkeys would've been received by them...and how that theory would've effected the Enlightenment itself. It'd be the height of irony, IMO, if deism [and the belief in mankind as being created in the image of a Supreme Being, and thus being direct partaker in the glory of the Supreme Being and therefore considered the greatest living creature on earth] in great part fueled what was an era of rebellious, freethinking skepticism and critical thinking...and if perhaps the theory of evolution would've stifled the Enlightenment's influence, thrust, etc.
I can imagine Voltaire passing out cold at the notion of us descending from monkeys! In fact, he had a monkey once as a pet [and a bear -- that's another story]. He named the monkey "Luke." One day Luke bit his hand...from that point on, he referred to the monkey as "Frederick" [Frederick the Great, with whom he'd been a correspondent, at whose Court he lived for 3 years, and with whom he had a nasty and bitter falling-out]. Sorry for the digression! I'm in a chatty mood...
Anywho, I'm not going in favor of creationism -- even in a deistic fashion -- so don't get me wrong; I'm a bonafide agnostic. I'm just thinking "aloud." I like taking into consideration consequences, and how one thing influences/effects another.
We are all impressed upon by our culture, society, etc.; theirs was particularly religious, and to be a deist back then was as close as one could get to being branded an atheist...regardless, they were radical freethinkers for their time
If there is any knowledge which could be imparted to me, I'd opt for knowing how all **this** came to be.
--Cindy
#9506 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Calling All Anarchists - Definition, please? » 2002-07-06 23:49:39
*I've read some of Chomsky's works, including "9-11" and a few essays. I feel I'm not -yet- acquainted enough with him to give a personal opinion of the man, but I read the following at a newsgroup months ago, and made a note of it; the man I'm quoting has a PhD in political science and is well acquainted with Noam Chomsky:
"Chomsky and [Michael] Parenti doubtless have websites of
their own, but I don't know the URLs offhand.
C&P generally have their ducks in line about tawdry
aspects of U.S. domestic/foreign policy. My major
reservation about both of them is that they tend to
assign all blame for the screwed-up world to the USA
and none to other countries - many of whom have
worked at least as hard to get themselves into
whatever cesspool they're currently in."
--Cindy
P.S.: I'm not interested in starting a shouting match, either; I just thought I'd share this.
#9507 Re: Intelligent Alien Life » Extraterrestrial Civilizations - Isaac Asimov's predictions vs"Rare Earth » 2002-07-06 21:19:50
Personally, I believe that the universe is teeming with intelligent life considering that there are billions of galaxies out there with billions of stars in them
*Interesting. I'm inclined to think intelligent life in the universe is an extreme rarity, and that non-intelligent lifeforms are only a bit less rare. Which is why it is, for me, more the pity that much of [what passes for] intelligent life here on our beautiful garden planet is wasted on wars, racial hatred, petty bigotries, etc., etc.
--Cindy
#9508 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc. » 2002-07-06 19:34:57
I've seen those Meade telescopes which you punch in a number and it automatically takes you to X object. That doesn't really sound like much fun to me though. I like the idea of having to manually fish for the object you want. I want to develop a good knowledge of the night sky so I can casually point out sometime that X object just happens to be in that constellation over there.
*If you're an absolute beginner in astronomy, I'd suggest the book I mentioned previously in this thread: "When I was around 9, I found a book in Ben Franklin 5-10 store called _A Golden Guide: Stars_"...With this little book I taught myself the constellations; the Big Dipper in Ursa Major is used as a "key" for locating other constellations, and then you go from those constellations to identifying others." I've known a couple of adults who bought it for themselves, on my recommendation; they quickly assimilated the information and went on to more in-depth books. You'll also have to familiarize yourself with the constellations relative to what season of the year they appear in [you may already know this]; the book I mention gives an adequate introduction to that aspect as well.
It's definitely the best idea to get to know the constellations, major as well as minor. As for "manually fishing" for the object you want, you do know that everything is upside-down in a reflector telescope? I'm not sure this is the case with refractors; I haven't looked through one of them since I was a kid, and don't remember. If you're able to locate them, and if they're still being published [I bought my pack 20 years ago, from the company advertising in "Sky & Telescope"...and I'm sorry, I forgot the name of the company which published them], try to purchase "Astrocards." They are [or were] sold in packs, solid 5 x 3 inch cards, with deep-sky objects catalogued on each, including the respective constellation the deep-sky object is "in" [or near], and includes information on how to "star hop" from one star to the next, and scan slowly over, in order to get the object you want in view. "Astrocards" also has a pack cataloguing binary and triplinary stars. This is, of course, provided you don't have a tracker -- or don't want to use it. The Astrocard has to be held in the position relative to the constellation as it appears in the sky, then turned upside down and you have to star-hop in that manner. There *is* a special lens available for telescopes which uprights the field of vision, and would make "star hopping" easier...unfortunately, the name of that special lens slips my mind right now; you could ask the salesperson you're doing business with.
I've not worked with an 8 inch telescope, so can't provide helpful hints as to eyepieces you might want to use and their respective power. Usually 1 eyepiece comes with the telescope; I'd suggest buying 2 more. Assuming the 1st eyepiece has 15 power, I'd suggest the additional eyepieces be at least 25 and 35 power, respectively. You can also purchase a Barlow lens; this little beauty automatically *doubles* the magnification power of each eyepiece. Thus, with the addition of a Barlow lens, you'd have 6 choices of magnification power if you have 3 eyepieces. Keep in mind, however, that the higher the magnification, the narrower your field of vision will be.
Hopefully my suggestions aren't "antequated". I've known a few other people who got acquainted with amateur astronomy in like fashion to me; the suggestions I've given have worked great for me, anyway. Those "Astrocards" might also now be available on CD-ROM.
--Cindy
#9509 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc. » 2002-07-06 19:17:19
The astroscan telescope is incapable of being colminated from what I have read. The mirror is fixed in place or something.
*Correct; mirror is fixed and requires no colmination.
I wish Edmund Scientific would build 6" and 8" models of the Astroscan. I think they might have marketed a 6" Astroscan a long time ago, but I'm not sure of it [memory-wise]; if so, it didn't pan out apparently, and they still only sell in the Astroscan in the size I have it.
--Cindy
#9510 Re: Not So Free Chat » First Cause - Newton's Deism vs. Evolution vs. - ? » 2002-07-06 09:19:35
*I read of Sir Isaac Newton's ideas on the subject of deism last evening, in _The Portable Enlightenment Reader_; the chapter is entitled "The Argument for a Deity". The book's editor, Isaac Kramnick, makes the following comment prior to quoting Newton: "In these two selections, which anticipate much Enlightenment deism, Newton insists that the design apparent everywhere in nature proves the existence of an intelligent and omnipresent Supreme Being. The first excerpt is from Newton's _Opticks_ (1704), and the second is from a letter written in 1692 to the Reverend Dr. Richard Bentley."
Okay, Newton believes that First Cause proves the existence of a Supreme Being. By the way, deism, as defined by 18th century standards, did *not* include belief in miracles, the divinity of Jesus Christ, an afterlife, heaven and hell, etc.; Voltaire said that the existence of the clock proves the existence of the Clockmaker -- and that was as far as his religious sentiment went [including that of most of his colleagues].
I've thought over creationism [not exclusively of the Judeo-Christian version] versus evolution. To me, they both wind up at dead ends. If one believes a Supreme Being created everything...well, who created It? How did It come into being? If one believes purely in evolution, we go back to the same sort of questions: How did the process start? How could something come from nothing? Isn't it illogical to think that something -- anything -- could come from *nothing*?
Comments? I know no one here as "the" answer, but this is a subject which gets to me sometimes. 
--Cindy
#9511 Re: Human missions » Russia proposes 2015 human mission - That's a little more like it! » 2002-07-05 15:56:31
JGM: "In contrast this Russian plan sounds very risky and very much like flags and footprints all over again."
*Yeah. If that would be the sole outcome, it would provide the general public with the old "well, we've been there, why go back?" attitude.
JGM: "I think it can't hurt to get people thinking about this and maybe it will remind Americans that we can't be sitting on our laurels from Apollo forever."
*Exactly! Damn, it's been going on 30 years since the last Apollo mission. I shudder to think of telling my grandkids, "Yes, when I was a little girl, I remember the first landing of men on the moon. Ever since then, we've only had the space shuttle."
--Cindy
#9512 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc. » 2002-07-05 15:03:37
Is it easy to keep tracking an object with those things?
*I have to track objects manually with my telescope, which is easy [the base of it is rounded, and it can also be carried with the shoulder strap].
You probably already know this, but telescopes can be bought which have tracking devices attached to them. You'll have to set the right ascension and declination coordinates for the object you wish to view, and turn on the tracker. I've never used a telescope of this sort before, however. Most folks with trackers on their telescopes are into astrophotography, and require the tracking device for long-exposure photos.
--Cindy
#9513 Re: Human missions » Russia proposes 2015 human mission - That's a little more like it! » 2002-07-05 14:52:50
"Russia's space program hopes to work closely with NASA and the European Space Agency to build two spaceships capable of taking a crew to Mars, supporting them on the planet for up to two months and safely bringing them home, said Nikolai Anfimov, head of the Central Research Institute of Machine-Building."
*Terrific!! If they can stay on Mars for two months, I wonder what would their priority tasks be in regards to exploration, bringing back specimens, etc.? I bet the Ruskies can do it! 
--Cindy
#9514 Re: Human missions » Alternative to the Ares Rocket - I call it "Atlas-Barbarian" » 2002-07-05 14:19:11
Does the gender of the author really matter?
*Well, if the gender of the cosmonaut "matters" -- sure, why not?
Here's a good resource: http://www.astronautix.com/astros/terhkova.htm. Some quotes of interest:
"it was Korolev's idea just after Gagarin's flight to put a woman into space as yet another novelty"
and
"Korolev was unhappy with Tereshkova's performance in orbit and she was not permitted to take manual control of the spacecraft as had been planned. Mishin later claimed she was ?on the edge of psychological instability?"
From that point onward, woman cosmonauts in the program were supposed to be considered on an equal basis with the men cosmonauts in the program, but it wasn't until 1982, one year before Sally Ride, that any of them actually saw flight duty.
*Here's more of the quote which you refer to, directly from the web site:
"Although it was Korolev's idea just after Gagarin's flight to put a woman into space as yet another novelty, Khrushchev himself made the final crew selection. On June 14, 1963, Vostok 5 was launched with cosmonaut Valeri Bykovsky aboard. Two days later, Valentina Tereshkova became the first woman in space aboard Vostok 6. Korolev was unhappy with Tereshkova's performance in orbit and she was not permitted to take manual control of the spacecraft as had been planned. Mishin later claimed she was ?on the edge of psychological instability?. Whatever the case, Valentina completed three days in space, more than the flight time of all the American astronauts put together. Vostok 5 had been planned for a record eight days in space, but Bykovsky had trouble with his thermal regulation system [tut, tut -- was he "practically hysterical" at this point, too?] and ended up landing after five days, only three hours after Vostok 6. "
*Why should we take Mishin's claim at face-value? What did he mean by "on the verge of psychological instability," and what was the basis/where is the evidence for this claim? Was Mishin a professional psychologist or psychiatrist? If not, then by what criteria did he make this judgment of her? It also states Mishin "LATER claimed" -- what's up with this "later" business? The author of the article seems, IMO, to treat Mishin's allegation in a brush-off manner. Anyone can claim anything; show me proof that what he said about Cosmonaut Tereshkova was true.
--Cindy
#9515 Re: Not So Free Chat » 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment » 2002-07-05 13:40:54
I'm copying and pasting a "few" items <wink> from the Bookmarks section of my 18th-century mailing list. If this whets your appetite for the 1700s, by all means consider joining my mailing list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ageofvoltaire [click this link to view the homepage of my mailing list]
Subscribe: ageofvoltaire-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
--Cindy
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*18th Century History
This web site features a veritable horde of articles pertaining to any and all aspects of the 18th century. It also includes a bulletin board, shopping features, newsletter, net links, and other resources.
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*Babel Fish
Can't read French? Visit this site; it provides automatic translation into English (and other languages as well). It has 2 distinct features: Either a) translate up to 150 words (good for sentences, phrases, short paragraphs) or b) a web site address may be entered for translation.
http://www.world.altavista.com/tr
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*Bookfinder.com
Are you on the hunt for an old or rare or out-of-print book? This web site may help you locate what you seek!
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*Candide
Voltaire's most famous work of philosophical fiction, published in 1759.
http://elf.chaoscafe.com/voltaire/candide/
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*Cirey: Residence of Voltaire & Emilie
The residence of Voltaire & Mme du Chatelet from 1734-1749. Do visit; there is plenty to see and read!
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*Denis Diderot
An amazing man who shouldered the burden of assembling and publishing "l'Encyclopedie," which was considered the crowning achievement of the Enlightenment.
http://www.visitvoltaire.com/v_diderot.htm
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*Find A Grave
Want to leave virtual flowers/token gift and words of praise for your Enlightenment (and other) heroes and heroines? Register, then pay your respects. Includes information on said personage such as (if known) dates of birth, death, cause of death, achievements, photos/portraits from life and of gravesite, etc. Interesting!
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*Jean-Antoine Watteau
The paintings of one of the 18th century's greatest artists; a feast for the eyes. This is but one section of a large web site devoted to artists of many centuries. A special feature of this web site also includes the ability to listen to period music as a background to the artist's work you are viewing.
http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/w/watteau/antoine/
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*Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Voltaire and Rousseau were rivals, and at odds with one another. Includes links and biographical information.
http://www2.lucidcafe.com/lucidcafe/lib … sseau.html
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*Madame de Pompadour
In my opinion, one of the more truly interesting women of this era. She had it all!
http://www.visitvoltaire.com/v_pompadour.htm
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*Montesquieu
This great man is considered, along with John Locke, the ideological co-founder of the American Constitution. Includes portrait, a handful of quotes, introductory statements, and a link to a short biography of Montesquieu. However , there is one notable contradiction: Information on the 1st page indicates M was in favor of abolishing slavery; the short bio (via link) indicates he advocated slavery. This discrepancy will be checked into by me.
http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/montesqu … quieu.html
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*Olympe de Gouges
A Frenchwoman who wrote "Declaration of the Rights of Woman and the Female Citizen" in 1791, post-Revolution. De Gouges's devotion to the cause of women's rights led to her EXECUTION via guillotine.
http://womenshistory.about.com/gi....te=http
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*Rousseau Association
Though I'm not a fan of JJR, this is a very worthwhile web site. Snipets of his musical compositions are available for listening at this site, and are lovely. Do enjoy!
http://www.wabash.edu/Rousseau/
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*Rousseau: The First Romantic
Good material relative to JJR.
http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/rousseau.htm
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*The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
The name is self-explanatory
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/
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*Voltaire Society of America
Read accounts of visitors to Voltaire's home; see images of Voltaire and photos [interior and exterior] of chateau de Ferney -- and more! Excellent.
http://humanities.uchicago.edu/homes/VSA/
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*Voltaire & Frederick the Great
Details the turbulent relationship between them. Text is in English; however, quotes and some phrases are in French. Use Babel Fish [cited previously in list] for translation!
http://www.eserver.org/books/strachey/v … erick.html
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*Voltaire Foundation
Is a European web site. Its set-up is a bit different than what I'm accustomed to, and I don't prefer it; however, you may.
-------
*Voltaire's Philosophical Dictionary
Read the thoughts of Voltaire on an array of subjects. This web site is not exhaustive to the original Philosophical Dictionary, however. Voltaire's Philosophical Dictionary was condemned by French government censors and publically burned by the hangman. However, he kept copies of it [of course], and history managed to preserve it.
http://history.hanover.edu/texts/voltaire/volindex.htm
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*Writings of Montesquieu
The following web link will take you to Montesquieu's "Spirit of Laws" and "Persian Letters." There is much reading to do here -- enjoy!
#9516 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » The Succession of Empires - Mars will trump the U.S. » 2002-07-05 11:53:51
most americans don't even want to VISIT anywhere else.
*I'm planning on visiting Voltaire's chateau de Ferney [Ferney, France] in a couple of years. That is, if the terrorist situation isn't worse. I plan to fly to Geneva, Switzerland [the Ferney chateau is just a few miles over the French-Swiss border], and I also plan to visit Voltaire's Swiss chateau [Les Delices] in Geneva.
--Cindy
#9517 Re: Civilization and Culture » Reproductive rights - Society vs. Individual » 2002-07-05 11:19:26
*Actually, I don't foresee Marsian children/babies as being an issue for quite some time. There will be so many challenges to overcome for the early settlers -- many of which will remain unforseeable until people actually get there -- that I'm sure those settlers will take precautions...and yes, I believe birth control should be mandatory regardless. Besides we don't know how the stress, challenges, excitement, worries, and atmosphere of Mars all combined might affect people's sex drives...they might go down.
A baby born on Mars will basically be floating around unless provided with weighted baby clothes to develop near-Earth-normal muscle mass; also, the baby's clothing would need to be weighed down to enable developmental milestones: Baby can't first roll over in the crib then scoot along the floor then crawl and then cruise around furniture if he or she is floating around in the lower Marsian gravity! I'm thinking babies especially -- and children -- will need special suits to be worn at all times [can be light-weight and similar to spandex, i.e. totally flexible] which is weighted, to help produce muscle mass.
This is just ONE of the challenges of having a baby on Mars...particularly for those early settlers. Providing adequate nutrition is another headache. Suppose the child is lactose intolerant? Can't just run down to the local Wal-Mart and pick up ProSobee or Enfamil because mom's breast milk makes baby sick, and the powdered cow's milk in the hab only gets spit back up.
And what if the mission must be scrubbed, the project is called off, something horrible happens and people are told to come back to Earth, etc? Yeah, I'm on a roll here, but bear with me -- if the child cannot be habituated to Earth's gravity or something akin, the parents face either staying on Mars [and subsequent death] with the child, or leaving the child behind. That's a worst-case scenario and will probably never happen...but it could.
Based on all this and other related matters -- I didn't touch on the issue of DIAPERING, did I? What will diapers be made out of? Can't have disposable diapers there -- how will they be cleaned? Babies go through LOTS of them, and the laundering process of cloth diapers is an everyday busy task in and of itself -- I'd like to give the first generation(s) of Marsian settlers the benefit of the doubt that they'll use their brains when it comes to birth control and population issues.
--Cindy
#9518 Re: Human missions » Alternative to the Ares Rocket - I call it "Atlas-Barbarian" » 2002-07-04 15:29:04
Dayton3 writes: "Valentina is seldom mentioned because she wasn't really a true cosmonaut per se. She was an amateur parachutist who was chosen because she was....well, a women parchutist."
*Really? And were the male cosmonauts chosen because they were amateur parachutists as well?
Dayton 3 writes: "And reports were that she spent the whole time in orbit practically hysterical."
*What reports? Refer me to them, please; I'd like to read them...especially where it's documented that she was "practically hysterical" the entire time. Every report of her I've read was written by men, and none of them made such a reference.
--Cindy
#9519 Re: Space Policy » A Mass Mailing of "The Case For Mars" - Mass Mailing to Congressman » 2002-07-04 13:11:51
*There's also the option of buying Mars Society T-shirts at the "Mall" on the web site. I tried to access it twice today, with an error message. When I first joined the Mars Society, they also had pins for sale. Members wearing a simple pin or T-shirt is free advertising for the Society.
--Cindy
MS member since 6/01
#9520 Re: Space Policy » A Mass Mailing of "The Case For Mars" - Mass Mailing to Congressman » 2002-07-04 11:56:42
Maybe they could rent a few billboards and advertise...Hmm, how should such a billboard be designed?
Black background.
Light sources on both bottom and top of billboard.
Color photo of Mars in the center ::or:: a dual image of Mars, i.e. one photo of the Valles Marineris Hemisphere and another of the Syrtis Major Hemisphere side-by-side.
I suppose we'd get in trouble using "Got Mars?" -- because of the milk industry ads -- so how's about "Want Mars?" in huge red letters above or below the photo(s) of Mars.
Include snail-mail and website addresses.
Running around the border of the billboard have representations of the Flags of each nation with a Mars Society branch, with the name of each nation beneath its respective flag.
Perhaps at the bottom have something like "First Landing on Mars by 2015!"
#9521 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc. » 2002-07-04 08:14:39
"Hubble Captures 'Fireworks' of Old Supernova"
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/Science/Hubble_Telescope/
*I found this item in today's Yahoo! Science news. Check it out; very pretty.
--Cindy
#9522 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Calling All Anarchists - Definition, please? » 2002-07-03 16:14:38
anarchy = no rules...
*Yes.
I should have elaborated in my initial post.
A few years ago, I read the posts of a man [at a private mailing list], who defined "anarchism" as the belief that humans will get along better the less rules and regulations there are. He felt that each rule or regulation added a degree to distrust in humans and provoked mutual envy, hostility, covetousness, etc. However, he then proceeded to contradict [so it seemed to me] himself by stating that American citizens who don't agree with the Constitution and Bill of Rights should be deported. ::shrug::
Anywho...how do anarchists themselves define this term they apply to themselves? What is the ideal political scenario to you? The ideal society? Do you believe there is such a thing as society, or are there simply groups of humans living together and "society" is a falsehood of unthinking rules, regulations, expectations, conformity issues, etc., superimposed upon groups of people? Or is society a natural outgrowth of groups of people living together, with resultant mores, values, standards, etc.? What about human predators? Where do they fit in, how do you deal with them? Also, would the term "utopian" be synonymous, in your view, with "anarchist?"
Again...just wondering.
--Cindy
#9523 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Calling All Anarchists - Definition, please? » 2002-07-03 15:47:11
*I've become curious as to how the persons here who identify themselves as anarchists, or use the word "anarchy," define those words. Just wondering, thanks...
--Cindy
#9524 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Hey, hey, hey, wait up - Mars is not a country » 2002-07-03 15:21:48
O.K....Time for me to weigh in on this matter of monarchies... First of all, I wholeheartly agree with Clark that monarchies do *suck*...reading your arguments in support of monarchy certainly makes me very, very proud to live in a representative democracy.
Personally, I find it *appalling* that anyone, especially a person of reasonable intelligence, would even advocate a monarchy in the 21st Century. This is an antiquated system whose time has come and gone, and to tell you the truth, if I were to ever to live in a place (like Mars) that was based on a monarchial system, I would do everything in my power to see to it that the king/queen/czar be cut down. For the most part, modern humans DO NOT need a "hero" leader like you suggest...they want to be in charge of their own lives; not to have someone sitting on a guilded throne telling them what to do...even if they aren't "bad."
Mars will be a place where people will be seeking their own destiny, and the idea that a monarchy could be put in place on humanities' second world is absurd at best, atrocious at worst. Sure, there are flaws in every governmental system; this is why I'm an anarchist at heart, but a U.S.-style system of a republic certainly has been far superior to anything that Russia has ever had... The United States enjoys a position of dominant world power and has the world's highest standard of living, as well as the world's most stable form of government. Why would *anyone* suggest a revolution-prone system such as monarchy as opposed to what we have here in the US or Europe is beyond me. Why not just stick with what works??? Russia has *never* enjoyed a period of peace and prosperity like the U.S. has...so using the old Russian system of czars in another place would represent the very pinnacle of human stupidity....
I close with this: Down with any future king/queen/czar, and the PEOPLE will prevail, both here on Earth and on future Mars. Freedom rules!!!!
Byron,
A proud, democracy-supporting American...
*Way to go Byron! Wooo-hooo! :::HIGH FIVE!:::
A happy and safe 4th of July to my fellow USA citizens!
--Cindy
#9525 Re: Civilization and Culture » Martian Security - Should guns be allowed? » 2002-07-03 13:49:21
Cindy exhorts us to "take care to try and raise QUALITY children".
This raises the old argument about 'nature versus nurture'.
I've heard a thousand versions of the argument and the only certain conclusion is that the argument will probably never be settled!
For what it's worth, my opinion is that 90% of what we are is programmed in at conception. The other 10% is the result of the way we're brought up .... which is not to say it doesn't matter, because it does! And we should all strive to see that all children get every chance to achieve their full potential.
*Yipes! It wasn't my intention to bring up the "nature versus nuture" debate at all
Since this aspect has emerged in the thread, however, I'll address it with my ideas: I don't think it's a "versus" thing at all. What individuals become is, IMO, a ::combination:: [to what degree or percentages I think is impossible to calculate] of nature, nurture, intelligence, traumas, perception skills, temperament, willingness [or lack thereof] to learn from mistakes and avoid repeating them, examples set by authority figures, willingness [or lack thereof] to exercise one's own free will, level of ambition, sense of destiny, etc., etc.
Everyone is a unique being with unique sets of experiences and ways of reacting to the experiences in their lives. To try and lump all of this into an "either/or" category [i.e., nature or nuture] is so overly simplistic as to be really dumb.
I've known people who came from crappy, abusive homes who turned out to be responsible, honest, dependable people. A best friend of mine in childhood grew up in a home which was spic 'n span, her parents were responsible, etc., and she grew up to marry a slovenly man and they essentially live in a pig's stye. I knew of one family of 6 children, 5 of whom grew up into solid, dependable, honest, hard-working citizens...and 1 of whom turned out to be a thief, con artist, robber, eventually became a murderer, and is now in prison for life.
Go figure.
I suppose saying "try and raise quality children" is an overly simplistic statement as well. However, what I meant by this was provide them with a good education, affection, and attention -- things most children need and crave.
--Cindy