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Magnetoplasmadynamic thrusters have the advantage that they can be
scaled up to produce large amounts of thrust, while still maintaining
the high ISP of ion drives:
Magnetoplasmadynamic Thrusters.
"Testing for these thrusters has demonstrated exhaust velocities of
100,000 meters per second (over 200,000 mph) and thrust levels of 100
Newtons (22.5 pounds) at power levels of 1 megawatt. For perspective,
this exhaust velocity will allow a spacecraft to travel roughly 11
times the top speed of the space shuttle (18,000 mph)."
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/about/fs22grc.html
MY ELECTRIC ROCKET ENGINE.
http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/mpd.htm
The problem is the high amount of power required. However high
electrical power has been delivered up to hundreds of kilometers on
Earth over power lines. Then this could be used to deliver the
required electrical power to the thrusters from the ground.
Bob Clark
c.f.,
Newsgroups: sci.astro, sci.space.policy, sci.physics
From: "Robert Clark" <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com>
Date: 20 Mar 2006 20:23:18 -0800
Local: Mon, Mar 20 2006 11:23 pm
Subject: Long cables to power arcjet rockets to orbit?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.phys … a4a33a6d13
Um, look at the problems of low-pressure plasma containment for fusion research...
My guess on the internal pressure for this scheme would be combustion chamber of rocket engine-- Just before it spontaneously disassembled.
Mind you, if he cares to try it, I'd be interested in the numbers.
Since this is for a propulsion system operating only in space I could make the pressure of the gas low by using a very large volume.
I am looking up references on this on the net. Some keywords to use if you want to look up some references are "non neutral plasma" and "Brillouin limit".
The Brillouin density limit is a limit on the number of ionized particles that can be contained on a magnetic trap based on the strength of the magnetic field.
Bob Clark
The ionization potential of Xenon is quite low (12 V) compared with the typical 5000 V needed to accelerate the ions. It would seem unlikely that the cost in extra mass of the containment field would offset the power savings, power that is provided essentially "free" from solar panels. Xe atoms are 131 times the mass of H, and momentum is what counts. The trades with Hydrogen would be the higher mass due to the larger tanks, higher voltages would also require more mass for the power converters and insulation. Checkout the size of the 425 kg Xe tank on the Dawn spacecraft (about 0.4 m³), containing the gas with a magnetic field that large would need a lot of magnets, the problem would be worse for Hydrogen.
It is true that only a relatively low proportion of the power goes to ionizing the gas, such as xenon, in an ion drive. But the reason is that the xenon gas is only being partially ionized, perhaps only one or two electrons being knocked off.
Then a gas that is fully ionized would undergo higher velocity since it would have a higher positive charge being acted on by the electrostatic forces.
That the xenon is actually only minimally ionized with the current ion drives is illustrated by the energy required to remove the electrons more tightly bound to the nucleus. See this web site for the data on the ionization energies of the elements:
NIST Atomic Spectra Database Levels Form.
http://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/ASD … _form.html
Enter Xe 53 into this form to get the last (54th) electron ionization energy,
41,299.7042eV.
1 eV counts as about 100 kJ/mol. So this means removing that final electron would have required 4 billion joules per mol of xenon, about 30 million joules per gram.
This is just for that single last electron. The total energy required for removing all of them would be in the hundreds of millions of joules per gram.
My plan is to have a possibly large generating station in orbit to supply this energy. Note since the gas is being stored as it is being ionized you might not have to have a very powerful generator, just one operating for a long period of time.
You can calculate the exhaust velocity possible for a fully ionized Xenon atom using SI units at say a 5,000 V voltage and using the number I gave for the charge on a single proton in coulombs, C, from this formula:
Note that since this is in SI units you must give the mass of the Xenon atom in kilograms, as I did in my calculation in giving the mass of the proton in kilograms.
Bob Clark
Below is a post to sci.physics. It proposes just storing ionized gas for fuel for ion drive engines rather than using the power on board for ionizing the gas as well as accelerating the ions.
My question is what kind of power would you need to contain a fully ionized gas using magnetic or electric fields? If the gas was low density could you just use light weight permanent magnets?
Bob Clark
==================================================
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy, sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics.fusion
From: Robert Clark
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:47:28 -0700
Local: Thurs, Sep 20 2007 4:47 pm
Subject: Stored ionized gas for ion drives.
This page gives a formula for the exhaust speed of an ion engine in
terms of the charge on the ions and the voltage driving the ion flow:
Ion thruster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster#Energy_usage
The exhaust speed increases with the charge on the ions and decreases
with their mass. You would think then that a light gas like hydrogen
would be ideal since heavier gases even when fully ionized would still
contain approximately equal numbers of neutrons as protons which would
not contribute to the charge but would approximately double the mass.
Yet it is the heavier gases like cesium and more recently xenon that
are used. The explanation is that of the energy it takes to ionize the
gas used as fuel. The figure on this page shows the energy to ionize a
light gas such as hydrogen is relatively high compared to the heavier
gases:
Ionization Energies.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb … onize.html
The figure gives the energy per mole which is high in itself. It is
even worse when you consider this on a per mass basis since the mass
amount of hydrogen would be so small compared to the amount of energy
needed to ionize it.
So could we instead store the hydrogen or some other light gas
already in ionized form so we would not have to supply power to ionize
the gas, only to accelerate it?
If you used ionized hydrogen, so you would be accelerating protons,
then using 6 x 10^18 protons to make one 1 Coulomb, and a mass of 1.6
x 10^-27 kg for a proton, and V representing the voltage in volts, the
speed on the ions (protons) would be about (10^4)sqrt(2*V) in meters/
second.
If we made the voltage be 5,000 V we would get 1,000,000 m/s speed
much higher than any current ion drive. Also, there are power supplies
that convert low voltage high amperage power into high voltage, low
amperage power, even up to 500,000 V. The we could get 10,000,000 m/s
= 10,000 km/s exhaust speed.
The question is could we get light weight means of storing large
amounts of ionized gas? Note that is this for space based propulsion
not launch from Earth. You would have a possibly large energy
generating station that remained in low Earth orbit to supply the
power to ionize the gas once the spacecraft was placed in orbit. The
power generator would be left behind in orbit. Then the volume of the
gas container could be large to keep the density of the gas low. This
would allow very thin container walls. Note the low density would also
allow the electrostatic repulsion of the positively charged ions to be
more easily constrained.
A possible problem though is the charged ions contacting the walls
could lead to a loss of ionization. You might be able to use a low
level magnetic field to prevent the ions contacting the walls. Low
density of the gas would insure the strength of the magnetic field
required would be low. It might even be accomplished by thin permanent
magnets so you would not need to use extra power.
Some questions: what would be the electrostatic pressure produced by
a low density highly ionized gas? What strength magnetic field would
you need to contain it?
Note that with an exhaust speed of say 10,000 km/s, by the rocket
equation we could get the rocket itself up to relativistic speeds with
acceptable mass ratios.
Then this would provide a means of testing relativistic effects on
macroscopic bodies.
Bob Clark
==================================================
Bob is fine. I'm hardly an expert in this field. I looked though that book you mentioned when I had an idea I wanted to investigate the possibility. It was a few years ago. I haven't looked at it in awhile.
You might try a web search on "surface tension" , "zero-g" , and rotation.
Bob Clark
Michael, in that sci.astro thread I cited a reference you might want to consult for the different shapes the liquid would achieve during rotation in zero-g:
Fundamentals of Low Gravity Fluid Dynamics and Heat Transfer.
Antar, Basil and Vappu: Boca Raton: CRC Press Inc., 1993.
I don't remember though if it considered rotations aroung two different axes at once, which your original proposal would require.
Bob Clark
The crater on the rim of Victoria crater on the right side of this
image very definitely gives the impression of a volcanic crater rather
than an impact crater:
Victoria Crater on Mars.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061002.html
An analogue of the Victoria crater complex might be Crater Lake,
Oregon:
Crater Lake, Oregon
Crater Lake National Park
http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Cra … ework.html
A curious aspect of Victoria crater is its irregular rim with
alternating promontories and alcoves. The rim of Crater Lake, Oregon
might be analogous to this:
Crater Lake, Oregon.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsro … g_id=17401
Although in the case of Crater Lake, the irregular rim is only
apparent on half of the rim, the other half having a more rounded
appearance.
The volcanic crater on the rim of Victoria might be analogous to
Wizard Island and Mount Scott in the Crater Lake complex, labeled in
the preceding image.
The crater forming Crater Lake formed from the collapse of a volcano.
Then an analogous scenario would account for the origin of Victoria
crater on Mars. Then Victoria itself might be a volcanic crater.
Then these two craters might give us a chance for the first time to
observe the interior of a volcanic crater on Mars.
Bob Clark
The Atacama is the driest desert on Earth. Previous studies were able to find microbes in the wetter portions on the desert. However samples taken from the drier central region showed no detectable microbes.
This had been taken to explain the Viking "no life" results:
Mars-Like Atacama Desert Could Explain Viking No Life Results.
Moffett Field - Nov 10, 2003
http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/MarsLi … sults.html
Dry Limit of Life
"Extreme Life Summary (Jan 15, 2004): Among the triad of biological limits to life on Mars--cold, thin air and dryness--a new study in the driest place on Earth reveals a remarkably sterile crucible for testing instruments that might one day answer questions about microbial life on other planets. The Atacama desert in Chile, when probed with some of the same techniques used during the 1976 Viking mission, found no life on Earth, a finding that may help scientists understand the dry limits to life and the potential importance of site selection."
http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.ph … le&sid=781
However, two separate studies have now found that microbes exist even in the driest parts of the Atacama:
Deliquescence in the Atacama.
Date Released: Monday, July 10, 2006
"While strolling through the salar, Wierzchos noticed a thin dirty gray layer along the edge of one of these salt rocks, a few millimeters (about one-quarter of an inch) below its surface. Intrigued, he broke off a piece of the rock and brought it back to the research station. He dissolved a bit of the material in water, placed a drop on a microscope slide, and took a look. He expected it to be some kind of mineral contamination.
"Instead, what he saw were living cells. There was life, thriving, inside dry salt rocks. He had discovered a previously unknown habitat for life on Earth. Microbes had been discovered living in rocks before. And they'd been found living in extremely salty - wet and salty - environments. But never inside dry salt rocks.
"In wet halite, okay,' says Wierzchos, citing the Dead Sea as an example of a wet, salty environment where microbes have been found. 'But this is dry halite. This is totally different stuff."
http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=20309
A Preliminary Survey of Non-Lichenized Fungi Cultured from the Hyperarid Atacama Desert of Chile.
Date Released: Tuesday, August 22, 2006.
http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=21797 [abstract]
Bob Clark
It was mentioned on sci.astro that "clay-like" material was seen at Meridiani by the MER Opportunity rover:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 3L2M1.HTML
Two separate and independent observational means show
there is seasonally varying water content on the Martian surface: one
by thermal infrared spectra, the other by the Gamma Ray-Neutron
Spectrometer.
The thermal infrared was from the TES and Mini-TES instruments showing seasonal variations of carbonate dust on the surface. It was suggested this was formed from water vapor.
However, on Earth in nature carbonate is formed from *liquid* water.
It is very likely it is formed from liquid water on Mars as well:
From: Robert Clark
Date: Sat, Feb 11 2006 10:32 pm
Email: "Robert Clark" <rgregorycl>
Groups: sci.astro, alt.sci.planetary, sci.physics, sci.geo.mineralogy
Subject: Could We Make A "Solar Still" On Mars?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astr … e350f8c285?
This report shows clays can be formed in short times under martian
conditions:
MINIMUM TIMES TO FORM CLAY IN MARTIAN SURFACE AND NEAR-SURFACE
ENVIRONMENTS.
L. Browning1, G. J. Taylor2, and D. Pickett1
1Center for Nuclear Waste Regulatory Analyses, Southwest Research
Institute, 6220 Culebra Rd., San Antonio, TX 78228 2 Hawai'i
Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, University of Hawaii,
Honolulu, HI, 96822
Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIV (2003) 1708.pdf
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2003/pdf/1708.pdf
I suggest searching the infrared spectra to see if the signature for
clays also varies seasonally as does the carbonate dust signature.
If it does then this will mean the clays are currently forming and
will imply they are also being formed from liquid water as is the
carbonate dust.
Bob Clark
Just saw this on Unmannedspaceflight.com:
Mineralogy of the light-toned outcrop at Meridiani Planum as seen by
the Miniature Thermal Emission Spectrometer and implications for its
formation.
JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, VOL. 111, E12S03,
doi:10.1029/2005JE002672, 2006
"Abstract
Analysis of Miniature Thermal Emission Spectrometer (Mini-TES) data has
led to the recovery of a pure end-member spectral shape related to the
light-toned outcrop observed at Meridiani Planum. Data from the MER
Mössbauer spectrometer, APXS, and previous Mini-TES measurements were
used to constrain a spectral library used to determine the mineralogy
of the outcrop from this spectral shape. Linear deconvolution of the
outcrop spectral shape suggests that it is composed primarily of
Al-rich opaline silica, Mg-, Ca-, and Fe-bearing sulfates, plagioclase
feldspar, nontronite, and hematite. Conversion of modeled mineralogy to
chemistry shows good agreement with the chemical composition of the
outcrops determined by APXS. Details of the analysis procedure and
implications for the formation of the outcrop are discussed along with
terrestrial analogs of the ancient environment at Meridiani."
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~tglotch/2005JE002672.pdf
According to the authors the spectra of the Meridiani bedrock is best
matched by a composition that includes 10% nontronite clay.
Bob Clark
I said thrust of 3000 newtons for a total flight time of 18 minutes, refering to my last example. If you are not changing the radius of the circular path past 100 km, I don't think it's possible simply because of the energy required to keep a circular path. You can see for yourself right here http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/cf.html. The calculator is handy for doing things quickly. The frontal drag with a l/d of 8 is still 219024 newtons...
I think you interchanged lift and drag here. The radial acceleration is a = v^/r = 7800^2/100,000 = 608.4 m/s^2. So for a 360 kg body, the force would be 219,024 newtons. This is what would be provided by the lift force. So with an L/D ratio of 8 to 1, the drag would be 1/8th of this or 27,378 newtons.
Bob Clark
Yeah, this isn't going to work. The SR-71 Blackbird, at its Mach 3.0-3.5 speed, took about 500km to complete a turn, and its skin was too hot to touch. So hot that it had to be made from Titanium.
Reguardless what schema you use to turn in circles about the transmitter site, the g-forces will always be far too high for a reasonably wide turn radius. 50G is ten times what humans can withstand for any length of time, would pulverise delicate equipment, and probably snap the wings off. The only devices that man uses with any regularity that make 50G turns are anti-aircraft missiles which don't use wings for lift.
The whole reason you are turning is to give you plenty of time accelerate to orbital velocity slowly so that the g-forces are not a problem, right? The solution to this problem is simple: don't turn. Have multiple transmitter sites strung along the equator.
The heating will also be a huge problem, Scramjet airplanes like the X-30 or the X-43, were they to accelerate nearly to orbital velocity using their air-breathing engines, would absolutely need active cooling. This cooling would be provided by the ultra-cold ultra-light hydrogen fuel, which you wouldn't be carrying on a beamed power vehicle. Even if you did, bulky tanks of reasonable mass for it would crumple under the g-forces like an egg shell getting stomped on.
As pointed out, reguardless what method you use to turn, turning requires energy. Lots of energy. The "lift" force is not for free. Surely the added need for energy to provide lift and overcome drag/heating cannot be worthwhile.
An air-breathing engine will be much like a combustion scramjet, except with a "window" to admit microwaves or an absorbant for a laser beam, but is all this trouble really worth not carrying fuel?
Building transmitters powerful enough and cheap enough will be a problem too. Chemical lasers would expend tonnes of expensive/nasty chemicals for every launch (Deterium, Fluorine gas), microwave power is the obvious choice.
The energy for the lift force is coming from the same place as it does for subsonic airplanes and supersonic jets. The thrust for these cases is never enough to hold the airplane aloft. The weight is always several times the thrust provided by the engines. The force to raise the aircraft is provided by the lift.
The turn radius for the SR-71 Blackbird was about 150 km at Mach 3, which means a circle 300 km across. But remember all aircraft when turning use a banking maneuver. This allows some of the lift to keep the airplane aloft while some of the lifting force contributes to the turn.
I'm proposing having the wings be 90º to the horizontal. This means the entire lifting force is used for the turn. The thrust to keep the vehicle aloft could be taken by 1 g from the beamed propulsion thrust. Normally, an airplane won't bank at 90º because you want to make a level turn where you're not losing altitude. However, if you've seen aerobatics you'll observe these aircraft can make much tighter turns when they're banked at 90º. The control surfaces for these aerobatic craft are designed to be able to provide sufficient vertical upward direction to the craft to keep the craft aloft. It may be since you only need 1 g of upward thrust, control surface here as well could keep the craft aloft.
Also, I'm considering having the proportions of the craft change as you increase in Mach number. From the hypersonic waverider page you see the shape is for a much slimmer craft to achieve high L/D ratio at the higher Mach numbers. This would be analogous to the swept wings on the F-14 fighter/bomber. Then you might have a "bending body" as well as a lifting body where it curves in the middle so the entire body becomes a control surface.
The proposal is not to launch manned craft. The g forces are too high. Electronics such as on satellites can be hardened to survive thousands of g's, much more than the tens to hundreds of g's required here. This has been demonstrated by gun launched missiles and rockets.
The waverider shape is that of a flattened cone. There are not wings sticking out. This would make it much easier for the airframe to survive the g forces.
Some versions of beamed propulsion do use hydrogen as fuel. In these cases this could be used for cooling. The space shuttle survives the high temperatures of reentry at Mach 25 at least for a few minutes by using lift. This would also be used in this proposal. Thermal protection materials now are more advanced than when the shuttle was designed to extend the length of time these materials can withstand the high temperatures.
You would indeed reduce the power and cost for each transmitter if you had several of them strung out some distance apart. But this would involve a total cost more that just using a single transmitter.
The purpose of the proposal was to reduce the power and cost required for a transmitter for beamed propulsion, which is too high for a moderately sized satellite. I believed using this proposal, the megawatt sized lasers already in existance have sufficient power to launch medium sized satellites.
Bob Clark
Okay, I think I have a better idea of what you are talking about now. You are running a laser powered scramjet in a circle and keeping it in a circle by using the lift from wave rider shape. Unfortunately, I don’t think it's going to work. If you cannot increase the radius over 100 km because of focusing and air diffraction you will need 219024 newtons of lift to stay on track at 7800 m/s. Given a hypersonic l/d of 8 your drag must be 27378 newtons, or nine times the theoretically needed thrust. Incidentally, I had the same idea as you awhile back, but was discouraged by the centripetal force requirements for people, which is another issue. Even if the lift of your wave rider can keep you in a circle, the gee's are going to be enormous, probably greater than any electronics can take.
edit: saw another issue, your 10 megawatt output laser can only provide so much thrust, so if the drag is too large you will accelerate until your thrust equals drag and then hold steady. Peak power has a role to play as does the total amount of energy. By the way, how are you planning to change the laser energy into thrust? Laser thermal rocket?
It's not that power transmitters can't send the energy further than 100 km, that's just a distance less than the ones I've seen in beamed propulsion reports. It's also much less than the distance required for the shuttle for example.
Why do you say the theoretically required thrust is 1/9th of 27,378 newtons or about 3000 newtons?
The proposal was only intended for payload launch. The accelerations are indeed too high for people.
Bob Clark
So the idea is, if I get this strait to use beamed energy to push a waverider shaped airplane strait up or away from the transmiter, and then use the lift to change this foce into force acellerating the craft in a forward direction? What is the advantage of this? Since you are staying in the atmosphere the drag is going to be increadable, even with a waverider, unless you are plaining to use some kind of exotic plasma drag reduction device, which would probably interfer with the beamed energy. What you seem to be trying to get around is the fact that it takes 30420 kJ/kg to get to orbit. Since you cannot beam that much power in a short rocket launch period of time, you have to:
a) break the laws of physics
or
b) accellerate slowly
Acelorating slowly will be actually way more ineffect than going quick because you will have to stay in the atmosphere and the drag is going to be too high. Even if you are using some kind of wing to change your direction to horazontal, you are not going to be able to produce extra energy, infact there will probably be a loos due to ineffecencies. 10 megawatts are not enough for 360 pounds, you would need to run it for 18 minutes. With a typical hypersonic Cd of 0.1 you have for drag at 25 km up (probably unrealistically high) and an area of a square meter (very small) = (0.5) (0.1) (1) (0.04) (7800) (7800) = 121680 newtons of drag. The energy calculations were considering no drag and needed a constant thrust of about 3000 newtons. I don't think this idea will work the way I understand it.
Thanks for the response. Any feedback helps me flesh out the idea.
The idea is indeed counter-intuitive because it seems to be saying you want there to be drag. This is indeed the case but the reason is because it's using the fact that the lift will be about 8 times this drag according to the data suggesting the hypersonic lift/drag ratio can be 8 to 1 for waveriders.
The nice thing about beamed propulsion is you can provide as much energy as you want (reasonably). For instance, if you need 10 megawatts to launch 360 kilos (not pounds) then you can have your own dedicated gas turbine electricity generator and run it as long as you wish, 18 minutes or whatever. If the drag required 10 times as much energy you just run the generator for 180 minutes.
The cost of gas turbines is in the ten's of millions for megawatt class generators. The fuel cost to run the generator is actually less than what you would pay for electricity off the grid. Look at GE's web site for gas turbines for example. And remember the turbine will be used to provide the power to launch multiple payloads so can quickly pay for itself.
You're calculations are correct for the drag at 25 km:
Drag (physics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_%28physics%29
The formula is one-half the coefficient of drag, times the area of the lifting surface, times the air density, times the square of velocity.
However, an altitude of 25km might be alright for a hypersonic scramjet, but you don't have to keep the craft at that low altitude for getting it up to speed when you're using beamed propulsion.
Let's look at the scenario I suggested where the craft is travelling in a circle. Here it is propelled by the beamed power to have thrust that would amount to an acceleration of about 6 g's in the tangential direction and this is supposed to be a little above the drag. But this 6 g's can also be applied to propel the craft upward initially to high altitude. Here we're not trying to get the craft to high speed just high altitude. So we can make it move slowly upward if we wish to keep the drag low.
(You might also want to use a combination of the beamed thrust and the lifting force, especially since the L/D ratio is even better at low speeds. It's just that for the discussion here the calculation of the trajectory is more complicated when it's not moving in a circle.)
Let's move it to say 75,000m, 75 km. My reference gives the air density at that altitude as 3.5x10^-5 kg/m^3. So the drag force would be less than a thousandth of the amount at 25 km, around 100 newtons. You could then use 1 g of the beamed power or 1 g out of the lifting force to keep the craft at the high altitude while it is being accelerated in the circle.
Actually though you don't want to make the drag too low since that would also make the lifting force low and you wouldn't get enough force to keep the craft in a circle.
Bob Clark
I would be interested in getting some feedback on the
feasibility of the idea proposed below.
It's based on the fact that lift for aircraft can be higher than the thrust
for the craft, so why not use this to increase the acceleration produced by
beamed propulsion?
There are a few points I'm uncertain about. First, I was assuming that the
energy delivered to the craft would be much less than the amount emitted at
transmission because of the distances of 100's to 1000's of kilometers.
However, I take it after reading some beamed propulsion papers most of the
beam power will arrive at the vehicle because of focusing.
Still if you did reduce the distance by a factor of 10, could the power arriving at the vehicle be increased by a factor of 100?
Secondly, how much acceleration are the laser and microwave systems expected
to produce?
Thirdly, my analysis was only a preliminary one. The scenario is made more
complicated by the fact the vehicle has to stay oriented to keep the velocity
vector along the centerline of the vehicle. Then we would have to determine if
the control surfaces are sufficient to keep this orientation or would a
portion of the beamed propulsion thrust be needed. Additionally the path would
not be in a straight-line which would complicate the calculation of the thrust
and lift directions.
Here's one scenario in which this could be useful. I was trying to find a trajectory that would minimize the *straight-line* distance to a laser/microwave power trasmitter that nevertheless could provide a long distance of travel for a slow build up of speed. For this purpose I wanted the acceleration in the velocity direction to be low since I wanted the beamed power to provide this acceleration.
The obvious thing to try would be for the craft to travel in a circle and let
the beamed power just slowly build up the speed by the craft's going around
and around in a circle, while the distance to the transmitter stayed constant.
Let's say you wanted the radius to be no more than 100 km say, much shorter
than the 2000 km or so horizontal distance required for the space shuttle. But
if you wanted the final speed to be say 7000 m/s then the radial acceleration
would be v^2/r = 7000^2/100,000 = 49,000,000/100,000 = 490 m/s^2, about 49
g's. But then you're in a worse situation than before because of the high
power required to maintain this acceleration IF this high acceleration were
provided by the beamed power system.
So the idea is not to use the beamed power for this radial acceleration but
instead to provide this by the lifting force. Note that this lifting force
would be radial since it is perpindicular to the velocity vector.
So the idea would be for the beamed power to provide a little more
acceleration than the drag so there would be a slow, gradual build up of
speed around the circle and even at a maximum speed of 7000 m/s, the beamed
power would only have to provide 1/8 the acceleration provided by the lift or
49/8, about 6 g's.
Bob Clark
=========================================================
From: Robert Clark
Date: Fri, Jun 30 2006 6:17 pm
Email: "Robert Clark" <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com>
Groups: sci.astro, sci.space.policy, sci.physics
Subject: Re: Using lift to increase speeds.
William.M...@gmail.com wrote:
> Orbital speed is where centripetal force equals gravity force and is
> given by;
> v = sqrt(GMe/r)
> Which can be derived from the following three equations;
> F = G*m*Me/r^2 - gravitational force
> a = v^2/r - centripetal acceleration
> F = ma - relating mass and acceleration
> a = F/m = GMe/r^2 - gravitational acceleration
> a = v^2/r - centripetal acceleration
> Setting the two accelerations equal
> v^2/r = GMe/r^2
> v^2 = GMe/r
> v = sqrt(GMe/r)
> If we increase velocity by 41.4% we double the centripetal
> acceleration, which means that if we were to fly an aircraft at Mach 33
> we'd need wings to hold it in the atmosphere! Since wings lift
> aircraft all the time against gravity, it seems reasonable to believe
> that wings could hold an aircraft down. Everything would seem quite
> normal to the occupants, except down would be up to them, and the lift
> would be directed toward the Earth's center.
> The vehicle if possible would be capable of circumnavigating the Earth
> in 60 minutes - and delivering payloads to targets anywhere in 30
> minutes or less.
> Would such a craft be possible?
Yes. I speculated about this possibility for the use with beamed
propulsion:
From: Robert Clark
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2005 2:23 pm
Email: "Robert Clark" <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com>
Groups: sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.math
Subject: Math question for the trajectory of beamed propulsion.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astr … 32000ef7f7
This would also be applicable to the scenario where electrical power
for propulsion is transmitted though long cables:
From: Robert Clark
Date: Fri, May 27 2005 12:10 pm
Email: "Robert Clark" <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com>
Groups: sci.astro, sci.space.policy, sci.physics,
sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.misc
Subject: Re: Long cables to power "ioncraft" to orbit?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.astr … 463e87dde6
The problem is that though the height to orbit might be 100 km, the
horizontal distance travelled might be 2000 km in order to build up
sufficient speed for orbital velocity.
The proposals for beamed propulsion I've seen though do not use
lifting surfaces for the craft:
Riding Laser Beams to Space.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology … 00705.html
However, the lift to drag ratios at hypersonic speeds suggest we might
be able to increase the thrust and therefore the acceleration by
several times if the craft was designed for aerodynamic lift. See the
graph showing lift to drag ratio versus Mach number here:
Waverider Design.
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/design/wave … ider.shtml
With airplanes you have the thrust directed horizontally to overcome
the drag force against forward motion and the lift provides the force
to keep the airplane aloft. Since subsonic L/D ratios can be 15 to 1
and higher the thrust required from the engines is much less than the
actual weight of the plane.
However, with beamed propulsion a key problem is the dimunition of the
power with distance, which decreases with the square of the distance so
you want to keep the distance short. The idea then in this case using
aerodynamic lift would be to use the thrust produced by the beamed
propulsion to overcome gravity and drag and use the lift force to
provide the higher acceleration to reach orbital velocity in a shorter
distance. Essentially the craft would be pointed upwards so that the
wings/lifting surfaces provide the "lift" in the horizontal direction.
The graph on the "Waverider Design" page shows the L/D ratio can be
about 7 to 8 at hypersonic speeds. For instance if the beamed
propulsion provided a thrust of 1 g to counter gravity plus 4 g's
against drag for a total of 5 g's in the vertical direction, then the
horizontal acceleration could be as much as 8*4 = 32 g's.
Note though it would be important to keep the craft oriented so that
so that the velocity vector is always pointed through the forward
centerline of the craft. When lift and drag calculations are made it's
always in regard to the craft moving so the airstream is flowing more
or less parallel over the wings/lifting surfaces, according to angle of
attack. If instead the airstream was flowing perpindicular to the plane
of the wings the lift would be much less and drag would be much greater
so the L/D ratio would be severely reduced. The aerodynamic control
surfaces would be used to keep the craft properly oriented.
Estimates for beamed propulsion are about 1 megawatt of power to send
1 kilogram to orbit. If say such beamed propulsion provided thrust for
5 g's of acceleration then the lifting force could provide 32 g's, or a
factor of 6 more. So the distance required would be smaller by a factor
6. This means the power required would be smaller by a factor 6^2 = 36.
Then 36 times greater mass could be lifted for the same power. This is
dependent though on how much acceleration beamed propulsion could
provide. If it were 7 g's then the lifting acceleration would be 8*6 =
48 g's, about a factor of 7 more. Then the power required would be less
by 7^2 = 49, and 49 times greater mass could be lifted.
There are apparently megawatt class lasers already in operation:
Mid-Infrared Advanced Chemical Laser (MIRACL).
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/asat/miracl.htm
Let's say they are at the 10 megawatt stage now. Then this could
accelerate 10 kilos to orbit. Then with aerodynamic lift it could lift
perhaps 360 kilos to orbit, which is the size of a small sized
satellite.
Bob Clark
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