New Mars Forums

yes it is true Saddam is a bad man, he is a criminal and was a horrible dictator, but who is the bigger threat to peace in the Middle East

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With the current war on terror, disinformation from Rummy and the neo-con influence in the media.
There are reports Israel that they were bulldozing the family homes of "suspected agitators", displacing dozens of people at a time. So Israel has been doing this for decades, but not a peep of it ever reached western press. And somehow, the fact that the Palestinian grazing lands, fields and orchards were destroyed, the fact that farmers are now separated from their remaining fields, that it takes literally hours to travel just a few miles- to work, to school, to hospital- just never really makes it into the news

now with elections and the war in Iraq it is hard to not see topics and posts poppin up
So who is and was the biggest danger to security
and which guy is the bigger terrorist

The fact is the actions of the current governemnt in Isreal has caused the growth of much hatred and anti-Americanism. Sharon was found to have acted in a terrible manner and was held directly responsible for the terrorist atrocity where maybe up to 3,000 innocent people were massacred in Sabra. We know how himself and his crew refered to them as 'two-legged animals'. The Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, is one of the world's most bloodstained terrorists like the evil Binladen. He is responsible for the cold-blooded slaughter of at least 1,500 men, women and children in the Beirut refugee camps of Chatila. Even a formal Israeli commission found Sharon personally responsible for the Lebanese massacres
Ariel Sharon is sought for trial by the Hague Tribunal, the same body that succeeded in extraditing former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic for charges of crimes against humanity in Kosovo. Sharon will not travel to Belgium for fear of arrest by the International Court for the massacre.
After the Israeli military devastation and occupation, Sharon forcibly removed Palestinian resistance fighters from Lebanon. Many Palestinian women, children and old people were left behind in refugee camps near Beirut. The United States publicly guaranteed their safety and promised that they would quickly be reunited with their loved ones. When Sharon plotted their murder, he not only planned a bloody act of terrorism against the refugees; he knew it was an act of treachery against the United States that would raise intense hatred against America.

Wasn't Sharon, after all, the one that said that Isreal controlled the U.S. ?

What do you make of these posts, is Sharon another Saddam ?

ISRAEL'S TOURISM MINISTER Rehavam Zeevi's speaking of Palestinians who were living illegally in Israel: “We should get rid of the ones who are not Israeli citizens the same way you get rid of lice. We have to stop this cancer from spreading within us.”
Washington Post

So when the US supplied weapons and advisors to Bin Laden to aid in his efforts to overthrow the Soviets...

As for the Israelis, how much of a difference is there really in attacking and killing a civilian outright or repeatedly killing civilians in accidental crossfire or collateral damage? At what point does it stop being accidental and simply becomes an uncaring attitude? Neither side of the Israel/Palestine conflict is guiltless. They both seem equally stupid and stubborn. The Palestinian terrorists might be blowing themselves up to kill civilians... but the Israelis respond back by levelling a block of Palestinian houses or conducting a rocket attack from helicopter gunships into a crowded street.

Thanks.

Sooooo... No international cooperation in the future, I guess...

Double Star will follow in the footsteps of ESA's groundbreaking Cluster mission by studying the effects of the Sun on the Earth's environment.

A key aspect of ESA's participation in the Double Star project is the inclusion of 10 instruments that are identical to those currently flying on the four Cluster spacecraft. A further eight experiments will be provided by Chinese institutes.

NASA has been the best building some fantastic stuff like Viking 1 & 2, the Galileo probe, and great things done with people like John Glenn, N. Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Collins, but NASA has trouble now with safety and there are still questions after Colombia. Russia done great with the MIR spacestation, the luna probes and the Lunokhod rover which sent back over 80,000 images and Russia put up many other craft but now it lacks the cash and the program looks much slower. China is doing ok, it launching satellites, and had a man in orbit and they have a huge workforce in the Chinese industry which could help the space program however China isn't that great in space yet and lacks the experience of the Russians or USA. The Europeans seem good, they have comet probes, large designs for telescopes, they have Mars express and plan on doing joint ventures with NASA , the EU and Euro area is now an economic superpower but the EU scientists don't have the history of launching manned flights to space and the ESA don't have the experience of this.

Right now China is going through the schools for women astronauts next year, there are plans to establish a laboratory in space and the Chinese are looking at the moon. Apollo astronaut Buzz Aldrin had said that China could be eyeing a future piloted flight of the Moon using their craft and a mission would propel a crew into space and around the Moon without landing. Buzz Aldrin said he welcomed having another nation moving in the same direction in space and said 'We ( the USA )could be useful to them, and they ( Chinese ) could be useful to us' he had talked about the idea to eventually use Shenzhou as a lifeboat for the International Space Station which would relieve the USA from having to develop a new spacestation vehicle, also when Yang went around the US he saw Bill Nelson and Aldrin and Yang said “ .. we could cooperate with each other very well and contribute together (for) the whole of humankind” we might have heard this idea many times but now is it really possible? US astronaut "Buzz" Aldrin said China's program could herald a new age that could either result in greater co-operation in space. If we had Washington and Moscow, the EU and China working on space together wouldn't we do a lot more ?I saw some of this idea when USA and the EU work together or when ESA and China did a project together , there was an article on the European Space Agency site

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMD8CV4QWD_Be … its_0.html

If USA, China, Russia and Europe and other top nations worked together it could be great. I think we could be building on Mars in under 40 months, what do you think about a global space agency, and whether such a thing would be good for our exploration of space - more money because the everyone chips in, but perhaps less direction unless you set a true goal, it could have more resources, could it be along the lines of a head and organisation like the U.N, NATO, or interpol where everyone on Earth contributes or helps out

back China launched its first manned mission

Yang actually brought two UN flags with him on his space flight on October 15, 2003. During the mission, Yang displayed the smaller of the two flags, measuring 4 by 6 inches, during a live broadcast from Earth orbit

truescot
china has made public its space plans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/387 … 874419.stm

China aims to send a spacecraft to the Moon in three years' time, the head of the country's space agency, Sun Laiyan, has confirmed to the BBC. as well as building their own orbiting space station

so, my question is could thisspark another space race or will other countries realise the potential and work together with the chinese to boost worldwide entrance into space, and which would benefit us more?

the way i see it is that in a competative space race the parties will continuoulsy throw massive amounts of money at it especially as it is of military significance to be the biggest and the best, this could mean massive advancements in space as well as technologies to get us there.

the other way is the world uniting and sharing all data and mission with the rest of the world, this would be great because it would mean that work is not being repeated and we can branch out in several ways at once plus it will make the public much more interested but on the other hand this also means that less money will be thrown at it in total than a space race and there is less incentive to move fast and inovate

what do you guys think?

Ajax 
  Jul  2004   

Go China go.
I think it will motivate us, especially if they start establishing moon bases and we're still goofing around. 

Peiking Starship
Be careful, and think about the future!

China did not just put up a man into space to boast and show-off. This was not to brag like some smaller nations or other places might do by building the tallest comunication mast, or constructing the largest steel arch span and so on.

The Chinese mission was a serious mission. There are many other benefits from Space, better mapping of the Earths surface, increase in broadcasting, better productions of communication satellites, launch of commercial equipment, imporved aerospace designs, military and nuclear missile benefits and of course the more recent space-tourism. Trading space technology could China' s of securing a powerful position. China also desires the power and control over everyone else in the long term buck like the Spanish empire had influence or the USA had superpower status. At this point in time many of the developed countries are being stupid and abandoning their space programs and paying them minimal attention in terms of funding. A number of economists have said that whoever controls the infrastructure for public access to space will control the next century and the destiny of the globe. Back in 1999 people had an idea that China might begin to aim for Space, back then it first successful test of a spacecraft designed for manned fligt. While the same low power propulsion technology used in the maiden flight could also be used to alter the path of the defense missiles, military expert Song Yichang told the state-run ChinaBusinessTimes newspaper and suddenly the cash was flowing to and from the China military.

There are some who are aware of the potential of the Chinese. Recently the Pentagon has released its yearly report to Congress on the current and future military strategy of the People’s Republic of China (PRC), including that nation’s active use of space. There are some who desire to fight for a couple of barrels of oil in the middle East and it looks like China is going to stay clear from this fight. It has been written while others fight for the last drops of oil, China will be trying to increase its might and look to other sources of power. China wants to get up to speed while all the other countries aren' t developing their space programs any further and, once the pendulum of space technology development has gained some momentum, it is likely China' s rate of development by that point will have made significant progress. For space, the Washington report underscores Beijing’s advancement of military space capabilities "across the board", including reconnaissance, navigation, communications, meteorology, small satellite technology, and human spaceflight in the future. There are other future plans too, like as part of on-going work in seek-and-hit space warfare -- termed "counterspace" in military parlance, China is expected to continue to enhance its satellite tracking and identification network is what has been written in the US .

There is also the fact that the global economy and other world affairs are starting to change. China had a wicked communist system, some terrible human rights abuses happened and the country was seen as a bad guy. However now in the last ten years China has changed hugely. To compare the system in China today to one 12 years ago , or to a time when China was ruled by the wicked Mao would be to almost compare Germany or Japan of the 40s to that of the system in the 60s. China is changing fast and it's economy is growing rapidly.

The global economy is facing big change and Bush isn't doing much with the American economy, all those jobs lost. The USA space program has also taken a hit since the unfortunate colombia incident, and the finance doesn't look so good however with some effort they should be able to reshape the program and get NASA back on the straight track. World economics have also become an important factor, China has looked to nations like Korea or Japan and seen the wealth these places can get by selling their designs and computer manufacturing abroad, it is very possible that China desires to have a more open and more powerful economy. Lately other nations in Asia have seen their economic problems increase, and Japan looks like it might back some huge cut backs on its space program and close of it's space plans. An unstaedy economy in Asia, or a dying pension system in Japan is what worries other countries, the Japanese look to stay out of the 10 year recession that dragged their economy down and it looks like space will no longer be an investment. China knows that it has the chance now to prove it could become the strongest and leading force in Asia for the next century.

Nations have also been realligned and we see the effects of a world market, the IMF and Globalisation. A key example of this type of idea of change could be the Euro and the EU, the EU is becoming like the US a formation of states bonded together under a common policy, a single set of rules and a currency. The European area has also begun to expand and has jumped from 15 nations up to 25, the euro has become a good strong alternative to the dollar while Europe still has many plans in aerospace designs, manufacturing and space goals with the ESA. The ESA is small now and has made mistakes but it also has made great projects and could also become much stronger in the future like NASA built itslef up, Europe has also created the idea of a European defence force a type of all area army much like NATO. Is this what the future could bring? A number of key superpowers having influence on the world, three different Superpowers like the EU, China, and the US. Is this what it means for China to be fast on track?

To hide the strings?

It seemed to me that nobody ever told the President about the Mars Direct plan simply because of the moon idea.  Hasn't Zubrin always said "If you want to go to mars, then go to mars.  Going to the moon is not the way to mars."  I do not think we need to test our mars lander equipment on the moon first simply because we have never done that in the past.  Apollo went and landed on the moon with 1960's technology.  Why doesn't anyone have faith that we can do that now?  Actually I wouldn't be so upset about testing the equipment out on the moon except I really do not like the idea of the moon base.  It's going to become another ISS where we have to constantly send supplies, fix problems, crew transfers...all for what?  The astronauts there will be stuck with no real scientific purpose just like on ISS.  All space missions have a bit of Russian roulette in them.  It's the nature of the business.  The problem with the probes in my opinion does not relate to manned missions.  One of the probes was lost when NASA sent it the wrong information.  A manned mission would be able to fix that.

Could a separately launched Progress meet up with a separately launched US module, launched by an EELV?

Remember, try not to use anything that dosen't exsist, which means no Shuttle C plans. We need to figure out a way to free up funds for an SDV first.