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#51 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 12:00:03

First post landing briefing - 26 May 2008 - video 55 mins

Everyone is pleased, tired and feeling vindicated according to Emily Lakdawalla. Great fun to watch!

BTW next briefing is about to start to NASA TV

#52 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 10:58:38

live phone streaming from JPL

Seems to be Congressman John Culberson

Good to see a politician getting involved!

#53 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 10:47:25

Thanks for the down to Earth polygon images MarsRefresh, each polygon looks very similar to all the other ones. There seems to be much more variation in the Martian ones in terms of the quantity of rocks and pebbles on each; some have almost none, others are covered.

Vincent, is there any evidence for snow fall? Most of the chatter is about surface frost.

#54 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 10:19:44

Mars Society Celebrates NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Success - 26 May 2008

The first of NASA's new Scout missions, Phoenix is exploring new scientific and project management territory. The lander will be the first to explore the poles of Mars, which the currently orbiting Mars Odyssey craft has determined have high concentrations of water ice, a valuable resource both for any potential indigenous life and any future human explorers. It also represents the first time that a mission has been chosen from among competing ideas presented by organizations outside of NASA, an idea which has been championed by The Mars Society for the last 10 years.

"At its founding convention in 1998, the Mars Society called upon NASA to implement a program where groups from across the scientific spectrum with creative ideas for new Mars exploration missions could compete, with the best selected for implementation," said Mars Society President Dr. Robert Zubrin. "In 2000, NASA embraced that concept by establishing the Mars Scout program, and the terrific Phoenix mission has been the result. We're very proud of the role we have played in bringing this about, and look forward with great excitement to the discoveries that Phoenix may bring."

#55 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 09:40:42

Probably a shadow Vincet.

Why are some polygons almost clear of pebbles and rocks? Could it be that they are slightly higher than the surrounding ones and have been scoured clean by the wind?

#56 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-26 08:24:07

The taxation system is designed around your ability to pay. If you're are very loaded, paying a lot of tax won't hurt you as much as if you are a relatively poor person. Even when you are poor. you're still have to pay taxes which are probably crushing you into the ground whereas a relatively rich person is doing just fine.

Lets remember that all the wealth of the "less than 5%" didn't just come from space smile

The system is designed to take as much as possible from as few voters as possible. Imagine paying for other services on that basis .. "excuse me Sir how much do you earn? ok, that will cost you much much more then"

Poor people in the US pay no taxes at all and even get tax benefits! Half the US population pay less than 3% of the taxes, is that fair? So why has that happened, because the majority have voted for a party that promises them that.

How much of the national wealth only exists because of those 5%? China has 5 times the population of the US, so why isn't it 5 times wealthier?

#57 Re: Not So Free Chat » Did Iran become a player in space ? » 2008-05-26 07:02:36

But that's exactly what has happened in most democracies, a very small part of the population is forced to pay the majority of the taxes.

In the US more than half the taxes are paid by less than 5% of the population.

#58 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 06:24:23

Just wait till we get the 3D 12 color 360 panorama!

Maybe they'll also get the microphone working.

#59 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 05:50:34

Curious how some polygons appear cleaner than others - thrusters may have blown the regolith from the nearest one, but there are others further away.

Those dark patches at some corners may be small sinkholes where material falls down below the surface or maybe they are just shadows smile

#60 Re: Pictures of Mars » Real images of Mars » 2008-05-26 03:46:25

230121main_false_color_postcard_edr_516-387.jpg
Polygonal patterns, Vastitas Borealis (PHX/SSI) - imaged 26 May 2008

Icy, Patterned Ground on Mars - 26 May 2008

This image shows a polygonal pattern in the ground near NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander, similar in appearance to icy ground in the arctic regions of Earth.

Phoenix touched down on the Red Planet at 4:53 p.m. Pacific Time (7:53 p.m. Eastern Time), May 25, 2008, in an arctic region called Vastitas Borealis, at 68 degrees north latitude, 234 degrees east longitude.

This is an approximate-color image taken shortly after landing by the spacecraft's Surface Stereo Imager, inferred from two color filters, a violet, 450-nanometer filter and an infrared, 750-nanometer filter.

High rez image

#61 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-26 02:40:07

230121main_false_color_postcard_edr_516-387.jpg

This is optimal, aligned correctly and on the polygonal terrain. It looks like edges and centers are within reach of the arm. Let's get digging!

Fabulous. Peter Smith must be over the Deimos.

Post touchdown coverage from NASA TV - 26 May 2008 - video 46 mins

o ecstatic scenes in the control room at touchdown
o interview with Peter Smith,
o pre-launch testing at Lockheed Martin, 
o arrival of first images

#64 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-25 16:26:24

In response to a question by a newmars participant today at Emily Lakdawalla's live video chat, she confirmed that MRO will attempt to image Phoenix as it descends by parachute. Also MEX will attempt to image the entry fireball. Once on the ground MRO should be able to image the lander within a few days.

spacecraft status: in EDL phase, (TCM #6X canceled)

__Altitude above Mars: 16,000 km and falling
__Distance to Landing: 92,000 km and closing
_Speed relative to Mars: 16,000 km/h and accelerating

local weather conditions: fine, clear sky, temperatures between -73°C and - 33°C

88 minutes to landing

#65 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-25 06:19:30

phxlithographue2.jpg

spacecraft status: in cruise mode, final approach (TCM #6 canceled)

__Altitude above Mars: 120,000 km and falling
__Distance to Landing: 800,000 km and closing
_Speed relative to Mars: 10,014 km/h and accelerating

local weather conditions: fine, clear sky, temperatures between -73°C and - 33°C

11 hours to landing

#66 Re: Human missions » Problems with Humans on Mars » 2008-05-25 05:14:13

Something like that louis smile

Definitions vary and so do associations - 'base' often to refers to a military installation. 'Outpost' can also be a military station some distance from the main base. 'Colony' is appropriate because it usually means a remote settlement that has strong links with its origin.

An outpost doesn't necessarily have to be permanent, bases usually are, a colony is setup to be permanent.

Amundsen-Scott base is permanently inhabited, but nobody calls it a colony. McMurdo station has over 1000 people resident including many "civilians" during the summer and over 200 in winter. However it has no permanently resident children, that might be a good test for colony status.

#67 Re: Unmanned probes » International Lunar Network (ILN) » 2008-05-25 03:33:48

The International Lunar Network

by Amir Alexander
May 12, 2008

Taking advantage of the current focus on lunar exploration, NASA is leading an international effort to establish a network of geophysical monitoring stations on the Moon. The venture, known as the "International Lunar Network," or ILN for short, seeks to place between 4 and 8 such bases at selected locations on the Moon in the next decade. Each of the nodes will be launched and operated by different national space agencies, but all will work together as a unified monitoring network. According to Jim Green, director of NASA's Division of Planetary Science, this model of international cooperation could then serve as a template for a similar venture on Mars.

#68 Re: Space Policy » President of India calls for joint - US/Indian habitat on Mars by 2050 » 2008-05-25 02:17:18

China has other adversaries besides the US, democratic Taiwan and India and potentially Japan and South Korea for example - all of them US allies of varying degree. China is attempting to extend its territory southwards by confronting Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam over the Spratly Islands. If China has to develop everything internally, it will slow them down and they won't be be able to match western power.

Not much news or information about Chang'e - CNSA are not open about their space program at all.

#69 Re: Pictures of Mars » THE PAST MARS : Noachian & Hesperian » 2008-05-25 01:05:22

PeterC, thanks for sharing this with us. How do you determine the surface color and the ages and locations of these early impacts?

#70 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-25 00:47:18

Whats our post landing life span?

Primary mission is 90 sols. She should last as long as there's enough solar power - as winter approaches the Sun will slip below the horizon into the long winter night and she'll freeze to death inside a layer of CO2 ice. Total expected lifespan is about 160 sols after landing.

#71 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-25 00:21:50

Lander Briefing - Landing Preview - 24 May 2008 - video 63 mins

Best briefing yet, lots of excitement and the usual "what's the worst thing that can happen" questions.

orbital view of recent weather conditions

spacecraft status: in cruise mode, final approach (TCM #6 canceled)

____Altitude above Mars: 180,000 km and falling
__Distance to Landing: 1,200,000 km and closing
____Speed relative to Mars: 9,879 km/h and increasing

local weather conditions: fine, clear sky, temperatures between -73°C and - 33°C

17 hours to landing

#72 Re: Space Policy » President of India calls for joint - US/Indian habitat on Mars by 2050 » 2008-05-24 14:44:19

Sure, cooperation and trade between free independent democratic states is usually a very good thing. Space technology has direct military uses, and it's not usually a good thing to transfer military technology to your adversaries.

In an ideal world, open transfer and trade of all technologies would definitely be a good thing, but we don't live in an ideal world.

#73 Re: Human missions » Armstrong Lunar Outpost - status » 2008-05-24 14:29:40

Are these 'tons' calculated in lunar gravity?

Yes, water makes good shielding. Some of the proposed habitat designs have tanks and equipment on top and support structure for regolith. At the South pole the solar wind will be almost horizontal, so shielding for this will need to be on the sides. The Outpost could also be setup near a cliff or boulder.

#74 Re: Human missions » Real human missions available - apply now » 2008-05-24 14:20:41

Currently there are eight ESA astronauts, six of them have military backgrounds.

#75 Re: Unmanned probes » Phoenix - North Pole Region Lander (PHX) » 2008-05-24 14:10:14

spaceflightnow mission status report -

SATURDAY, MAY 24, 2008 1940 GMT (3:40 p.m. EDT)

Mission managers will decide no later than 8:30 p.m. EDT whether Phoenix needs to perform a tiny maneuver tonight that would move its landing site target and lessen the odds of the craft coming down in a rocky area. Final trajectory analysis underway this afternoon will culminate with officials determining if the course-correction is necessary.

Phoenix has performed four maneuvers to change its flight path since launch. Tonight's would be a very brief maneuver, similar to pressing a spray can for a few moments. The result would move the target landing spot about six miles downtrack, officials said.

Phoenix remains in good shape and the landing zone weather appears favorable

EDL simulation with narration

spacecraft status: in cruise mode, final approach

____Altitude above Mars: 280,000 km and falling
__Distance to Landing: 1,900,000 km and closing
____Speed relative to Mars: 9,776 km/h and increasing

27 hours to landing

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