New Mars Forums

I am sure they are. But in a small initial colony, we aren't looking for all those countless applications, especially if they involve other specialist equipment and processes, involving rare skills and highly technical working in sterile environments.

What we want to do is produce the necessities of life. We want to be able to replicate the energy producing and food production systems; we want to be able to make basic, containers, motors, tools and vehicles; we want to be able to construct and maintain habitats.

We don't want to produce a high tech industrial infrastructure in the early stages on Mars because that is too resource intensive. We need to be able to produce the simple materials: gases, metals, polymers and ceramics that will enable us to function.

Sorry - Gregori, I'm not going to trust you on this one.

Private companies are catching up with the states very quickly. Philanthropists can probably devote more finance to a single project like Mars than NASA can.

Here's a new thread Terraformer...

OK - my first question:

Can we use an SSTO retrorocket lander to take 10 tonnes to the moon and bring it back to earth - and then be available for re-use.

I don't see why not especially as the gravity well for the Moon is not so deep.

Second question: do the lunar night and day present any serious problems for ISRU. My answer: no. We can have energy abundance to allow energy storage and see us through the lunar night. But I understand in any case there are South Pole locations which actually enjoy almost continuous light.

Third question are you happy with solar power as the sole power source?

Fourth - where do we get water from?

There's a difference between energy generation and food production.

If the light goes because of a dust storm, you simply aren't producing energy. But the system is still there after the dust storm abates.

If the light goes in your greenhouse then your crops die and you starve. When the dust storm abates, the crops are gone.

Big difference. Of course, the energy system has to have built into it energy storage in various forms in order to tied you over the dust storm periods.

OK - why not start a thread.

But aren't all moon missions direct?

Zhar -

Well I think an artist will be important in creating the right psychological home environment on Mars. I don't think we should ignore art for too long.

As far as I am concerned Mars is going to be a second spiritual home for humankind. Art is crucial to making it homely.

Can someone explain why the air pressure suit is considered a disadvantage? Is it the safety concern - a pressure leak? Or something else.

I'll check them out.

Of course when deciding on what and how to produce things on Mars, we don't just look product by product. The great thing about a small scale glass manufacturing machine is that it will produce not just light bulb envelopes but also drinking glasses, medical and other instruments, containers for food produce and hygiene products, plates, saucers, lab equipment etc.

You have to ask whether you get the same benefit from manufacturing the parts for an LED. I don't know yet but it seems unlikely.

Space Nut -

It was your own quote (from the Mars analogue write up I think):

"Some NASA studies on future Mars missions have budgeted as much as eight gallons of water per day per person, but the Arctic crew got by just fine on a third that amount of water usage."

I'd like to know why hygiene water is required - for what? 

Wipes could be used for armpits and down below. It's nice to have an all over clean once in a while, but no one's going to die from not having one every day. Does faces need to be washed away? I thought it was vaccuumed away? We have waterless urinals at work - Ok, no gravity on a space ship, but again is water a necessity?

I'm just wondering whether we are starting with an assumption of water use rather than starting with an assumption of minimised water use, which could greatly reduce the figure required.

If you could water recycling up to 95% efficiency on a say average two day cycle, and restricted water usage to essentially drinking water and
an occasional shower in some sort of vacuum set up, then I think you'd be looking at maybe using 3 pints a day. (TO BE CONTINUED - MUST GO!)

gaetanomarano -

I think Musk's economics rely on him cornering the commercial  satellite market which he might be able to do even if the price differential is only a few hundred dollars. He needs to get the market before he can get the costs down. At the moment he is having to spend on all the development costs.

Larry,

I'm not sure we fundamentally disagree about anything. I'm just trying to suggest there are many other aspects to the problem of economic development. An extra terrestial world is a very strange place economically. This is a new chapter in human history. It does require some new thinking I believe.

Whilst the US government's investment programme has some relevance, it is not a defining template for how to take the Mars colony forward.

Artist in Residence.

I'd hope the colony woudl have an artist in residence from early on in the project. They shouldn't take too much in the way of artists' materials. They should use the local materials to make art. Lots can be done with slate or similar, pebbles, carbon to draw with.  They might be allowed to take a sketch book or two with them. Of course they can also use their laptops to produce pictures which can be e mailed back to earth.

Maybe third mission onwards there would be someone to produce art objects for the habitat.