New Mars Forums

In light of the pending budgetary crisis of the 2010's, a U.S.-funded Moon base around that time is rather unlikely in my opinion, although a bit of optimism never hurts! 

I do believe that a Moon base or any other major space project will have to be international in scope...to do so otherwise will make it exceedingly vulnerable to the winds of political change and budgetary problems.

Also, for any type of major, long-term space project to work and to be able to stay within the range of tight budgets (which will be an absolute necessity in order to win widespread public approval), we will have to go nuclear, a la Orion, or build a viable space elevator.  It has been proven time and time again that chemical rockets are just not practical for more than a token involvement in space.  We need huge, stupendously powerful rockets that can ferry dozens, even hundreds of people at a time, and to move many tons of needed material to whereever we need them, and nuclear power is the only way this can be done at a reasonable cost.

As for NASA, I'm thinking we just need to start over with that.  I say we should just dismantle NASA, and form a wholly new space agency (perhaps in conjunction w/ private companies)...one that will be free of the soul-sapping bureaucracy and lack of will that it is experiencing today.  NASA got us further than we could have ever dreamed back in the 60's with Apollo, but that ballgame's been over for decades now.  If there is ever a chance for America to be a leader in space in the future, NASA will have to go, imho.

B

Basically, you could say "lust" is a big factor in my book, the truly "romantic" part doesn't come until close to the end.  Gina uses her power of attraction to get Josh caught up in her scheming, Josh goes to Cliffside, an attraction develops between him and Kyria, but intervening events pull them back apart, which allows Gina to pull him back towards her...Josh is then forced to decide who he truly loves, etc. (the same goes for Kyria.)  So I would say the "romance" I've written about is integral to the plot, rather than a distraction....

As for action and suspense, don't worry, there will be plenty of that in there  ..I just haven't revealed all the nitty-gritty details...

B

I really hope you're joking...the author is only like the 2nd wealthiest woman in England, after the Queen....   

B

Clark, to continue the discussion of my novel...(your thoughts and comments are a tremendous help in getting the ball rolling on my re-write - I really appreciate your help on all this...)

To answer your question about Gina Silverstone...she is the head honcho of the Twin Cities, which is basically an extention of the corp that she's the CEO of (and "governed" by the weak-kneed International Space Agency, which is why she basically holds all the cards for that part of Mars.)  Gina, of course, is extremely ambitious, and has a lifetime goal of terraforming Mars, which would catapult her to a position of unassailable power, that is, if she is able to do things on her terms.

In the early going, however, Gina is merely attempting to take "baby steps" to unify the two major population centers of Mars - the Twin Cities, which she already has under her belt, and the decidedly isolationist Mariner Free State, which basically consists of the colossal domed city of Cliffside and a few outlying settlements.  She enters into negotiations with Konnarock in order to coordinate their exports to Earth so that the commodity markets don't collaspe altogether, but Konnarock is feeling quite a bit of pressure from within his own community (namely the burgening youth movement that Kyria is the leader of.)  Rather than reducing his exports (taking an economic hit now to ensure long term stability like Gina wants), Konnarock rebuffs Gina's suggestions, and he takes the opposite track, which is to redouble his exports for short-term gain, long-term consequences be dammed.

Gina is faced with a roadblock in her plan to unify Mars at this point, as Mariner is even more isolationist than ever, and Konnarock's actions lead to the embargo due to his misguided attempts to export his way out of trouble, which of course, takes a dramatic toll on all of Mars.  (As far as Earth is concerned, Mars is just a sleepy backwater, a formerly ambitious experiement in space colonization that no longer holds the interest of Earth, hence Earth's dismissive attitude towards the people of Mars)

It is at this point that the various plot elements of the novel start to come together:  A comet is discovered, whose orbit will take it reasonably close to Mars in a few months, while at the same time, Gina's top-secret antimatter fleet reaches completion.  She puts two and two together and decides to embark on an accellerated plan to jump-start the terraforming of Mars by using the rocket fleet to capture it and slam it into Mars.  Earth has turned its back on Mars, Cliffside is a clam that has sealed shut, and Gina has the firm belief that her plan is the only way to ensure the long-term viability of Mars.  She knows that slamming the comet into Mars is just a start...if Mars is to be terraformed, she will need to have both the Twin Cities and Mariner Free State under her belt, working towards her goal of transforming Mars. 

But how to get the people of Cliffside on her side?  She knows that she can't take it by force...Konnarock is a Neaderthal that can't see reason even if its put under his nose, and she has no allies on Earth help her in her cause.  Enter Kyria and her snowballing movement, which, by the time of the Earth embargo, threatens the existing social order of Cliffside.  She realizes that if the True Red (new Mars) revolution succeeds, it would open the door for her to come in and use the people of Cliffside to her advantage.  But she knows she has to be sneaky about it, as the current leadership of Mariner is already extremely paranoid...any attempt to undermine the current power structure will fail unless its carried out in an extremly subtle manner.

This is where Josh comes into the picture.  Josh is on Earth, unhappy as hell, as his wife has left him, he is unemployed, and therefore applies to Mars Immigration in an (abeit misguided) effort to leave his problems behind and start over someplace new.  Josh does have a connection with someone on Mars, which is *Kyria*, who he had corresponded with in an interplantary pen-pal exchange program while he was a teenager.  He uses her as a "reference" in his application, hoping it will improve his chances of gaining a berth on a ship headed to Mars, although he's been out of touch with her for years.  -Meanwhile- Gina, sitting in her opulent office, brainstorming for ways to get on the "inside" with Kyria and her movement, happens to come across Josh's application to immigrate to Mars, which has Kyria's name in it, of course.  This is when she gets the bright idea of using him as a tool to break into the "inner sanctum" so to speak...as who's going to suspect a humble, fresh-faced immigrant from Earth?  She makes sure Josh's app gets approved, and in short order, he's on his way to Mars.

Josh arrives on Mars, is immediately given the "red carpet" treatment by Gina herself, she convinces him that the youth of Mars must be convinced that terraforming is the only way to go, and that it's up to him to sell Kyria, who he has gotten back in touch with by this point, on the idea, but do it in a subtle fashion, of course.  Josh, despite being overwhelmed by all this, buys into Gina's scheme hook, line and sinker, as what else is he going to do?  Besides, this means he gets to see the person he could only dream of seeing years before, he gets to see Mars like few people ever do, and Josh truly believes Gina in that Mars must be terraformed in order for it to be saved (although he knows nothing about the comet at this point).

Meanwhile, Konnarock is increasingly pressured by the debilitating embargo and the vigorous protests of the True Red movement, and Gina takes advantage of this by offering Konnarock "assistance" in exhange for concessions on the True Red movement, as she really doesn't want to see them get crushed, as that will spoil her plans to gain power over Cliffside and the rest of Mars.  This is Gina at her finest:  she's getting ready to slam a comet into Mars, she's playing a high-stakes game of intrigue with the leader of Cliffside, and she's using Josh a pawn in order to get them to come to her side, as Kyria sees Konnarock as the enemy, not Gina...so she knows that if she plays her cards right, she can portray herself as the "knight in shining armor" that will led the True Reds down the road to a new Mars and a bright future.

While Gina is doing all of this, Josh gets to travel to Cliffside via a very roundabout route in a dirigible as an "employee" of a scientific research team.  (This is a way for the reader to "experience" Mars firsthand...I hope you're reading this, Shaun...    )  However, when he gets there, something totally unexpected happens....he and Kyria fall in love (the big "kiss scene"..lol.)  Eventually, Josh is forced to decide between Kyria and Gina, whether to expose the whole thing once he realizes what Gina is really up to, etc, etc.

I hope this makes things a bit more clear...please ask questions, make comments, etc....as nearly all of this is still open to change...

B

Don't feel so bad, Bill, I have that exact same book on my shelf...he he 

We are all subject to moments of weakness from time to time..lol.

Despite its inplausibility, it was still a fun read...

B

As clark has suggested, I will need to develop a comprehensive time line extending 75-100 years prior to when the events of my book takes place, even if I don't relate to it directly.  To answer your question, ..umm, that still needs a bit more work, as what I've written so far is pretty vague when it comes to Earth in relation to my novel...lol.

What I have in mind, however, is that the nations of Earth have aligned themselves into blocs, similar to the trading blocs we have today...i.e., the North American Bloc, Latin America, the E.U., etc.  Do you think this would make sense, based on what is happening in the world today?

B

Here's the link the Woods Hole website...sorry, I didn't think to post it earlier...

Woods Hole

B

Shaun, this may be of particular interest to you...it certainly is for me!

I've recently come across a report recently released by the good folks at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution that should give all of us, at the very least, cause for concern, and this is a prime example of why all types of scientific exploration and research is so vitally important to the continued well-being of the entire human race...

There has been increasing evidence of the possibility of sudden and dramatic changes in the climate of the Northern hemisphere, which a growing cadre of climatologists think could be triggered caused by a stoppage of the great "ocean conveyor belt" that circulates warm and cold water throughout the globe.  It seems that when large amounts of fresh water accumulates in the North Atlantic (which is taking place at the current time, according to the Wood Hole report released in late Jan of this year), the water in the North Atlantic fails to "turn over", which in turn stops up the Gulf Stream, which we all know greatly moderates the climate of western Europe. 

If a sudden shift to cold were to take place in the most densely populated areas of the globe, it could cause great social upheaval, as crops fail and severe energy shortages develop.  Here in the U.S. the picture is less clear exactly what would happen, except severe droughts and extreme weather would be much more likely in this new climate regime.  Down here in southern Florida, we have broken heat records 3 out of the past 4 days (even though the northern U.S. is in the deep freeze), with no break in this heat wave forecast until this weekend..an extreme event for any time of the year, especially so for late winter, and the sea surface temps are much higher than they should be for this time of the year, which makes me wonder if the Gulf Stream is failing to move the excess heat out of this part of the globe as it should. (Just my personal opinion, btw).

Am I just getting overly worked up here, or is this something that we *really* should be worried about?  I'd like to hear what you guys think...

B

Cindy, this brings to mind some aspects of human behavior I've been studying about...(that's the coolest thing about writing a novel - it gives me a reason to learn about all kinds of cool things...)

Are you familiar with "group think"?  The best example of this is a group of intelligent people working together in a group who come together to make a very poor and stupid decision, which happens more times than I care to think about  .
If each of those individuals (in a seperate fashion) are asked about whether this idea is a dumb one, all but the orginator (usually the boss or leader) of the idea in the first place will say yes, that's a really dumb idea.  But when it comes to making the collective descision, not one will dare say the emperor has no clothes.  Hence, the poor decision is made.  This is why large institutions such as government agencies end up doing things that run counter to the people they are supposely working for.

It seems that once people make up their mind, nothing can be done to change their ways, even though they *know* deep down that it's wrong!  What these people need is a cold splash of water in their face...lol.  Even in my web design biz, I encounter people who insist on doing things a certain way ("well, everyone else does like this"), despite me telling them that it's really not in their interest in doing it the way "other people" do it.  How else is one expected to get ahead in a supposely competitive society if you don't do things "differently?"  Hmm??

As for support for space exploration...ugh, I don't even want to go down that route.  My hope is that some 3rd world country decides it wants to throw sand in the face of the US by launching a high-profile space mission someday, which may very well turn around people's perception of our space program.  Imagine what would happen here in the US if China manages to place a crew on Mars - without our help or influence whatsoever...

B

Well, writing a novel is quite a challenge...and this is my first go at it..lol, but I will have to say, clark, the questions you have raised are remarkably similar to the questions I asked myself when I began developing "Red Frontier"...you ought to be writing a novel yourself... :;):

Anyhow, for the benefit of you and the others on here, I'm going to give a basic outline of what my story is about, based on my first draft I've already written.  There are things I do and don't like about it, but, certainly, some changes will be made in my rewrite of the book, and any feedback from my *future readers* is highly welcomed, and will be a big help in my goal of getting this thing published and into the bookstores.

So here goes:

Red Frontier is set sometime in the 22nd century, on Mars, 75-100 years after the first landing of humans on Mars.  The novel is basically written from the viewpoint of three major characters (2 female, 1 male), in a braided story format.  One of the characters (Kyria) is a full-blown Martain native, the other female character (Gina, owner of the all-powerful Ares Corp) is a long-time resident of Mars, and the novel's "protagonist" (if that's the proper term) is a fresh immigrant from Earth who is unwittingly swept up in a sequence of world-changing events as he becomes personally involved (more on that later) with the two female characters.

The basic plotline is as follows:  Kyria, the Martian "native" lives in a beautiful domed city called Cliffside built a generation previously in an effort to create an utopian society on a whole new world.  At the time of the book, it has over 100,000 residents, the largest single population center on Mars.  But of course, all is not well in Cliffside, as well as the other major "urban" center on Mars, referred to as the Twin Cities (of which Gina is the head honcho.)  Kyria, like most members of her generation, is chafting at the strictures of the tightly controlled society she is a part of, and she launches a protest movement called the "True Reds" in an effort to win more freedom and economic parity with the so-called "Founders" who basically control all the wealth and power in her community.  So that's basically Problem #1, which is the result of having a generation of children on Mars who didn't "choose" to live there (and are basically trapped in their enclosed little world), and therefore feel betrayed by their elders.

Enter Problem #2 - At the "current" time, Mars is experiencing economic upheaval due to the collapse of the export-driven economy.  In the "past", the various governments of Earth helped colonize Mars with the primary goal of mining scarce metals for a resource-hungry Earth, with the end result of two major industrial centers that have flooded Earth with more metals than they can use.  Gina Silverstone, who is the head of the tremedously powerful Ares Corp, realizes that Mars is doomed unless immediate steps are taken to begin the terraformation of Mars, which in turn would free it from economic dependence upon Earth.  She embarks on a top-secret program to harness the nearly unlimted power of antimatter rockets in order to capture a comet and send it into the southern polar ice cap, which she thinks will throw the "switch" in making Mars a much kinder place to live.  Meanwhile, she is attempting to join forces with the leader of Mariner Free State (where Cliffside is located) in an effort to unify Mars behind her efforts to make it a more viable place for humans.

She doesn't get very far, as the Earth-imposed enbargo on Martian exports is throwing Mariner Free State into disarray, and the President of MFS basically turns his back on Gina's efforts to work with him to gain economic independence from Earth, at which point Gina decides to proceed with her program of crashing the comet into Mars anyway, as she thinks the people of Mars will have no choice but to accept the inevitable, which is to make Mars a more human-friendly place to live.

From the viewpoint of Kyria and her peers, however, terraforming is not even on the radar, as she is caught up in her fight against what she sees as the wholesale repression of her generation as the Mars-wide economic crisis hits Cliffside like a sudden storm.  To her and the rest of the True Reds, the leadership of Mariner Free State is the enemy.

Enter Problem #3:  Enter Josh, who is highly dissatisfied with his life on Earth, and wants to start over on Mars.  With a bit of luck, he secures an immigration berth to Mars (this takes place before Earth imposes their enbargo of Martian imports.)  Josh has had a connection with Kyria on Mars due to a years-long interplantary pen-pal relationship when he was in his teenage years, and now that he is coming to Mars, he re-establishes contact with her, which gives him something to look forward to once he arrives on Mars.  But by the time he arrives on Mars, the planet is in upheaval, and people are now scrambling to return back to Earth.  *But*, in the meantime, Gina Silverstone is currently attempting to subvert the ongoing protest movement in Cliffside, but she needs someone on the "inside" to learn about what Kyria is really up to, and to determine if she could eventually harness the youth of Cliffside in her efforts to eventually terraform Mars.  Her spyware discovers that messages are being sent back and forth on the inbound ship from Earth between a certain passenger and Kyria in Cliffside.  She gets a bright idea in her head, and decides to "intercept" Josh immediately upon his arrival on Mars.

Josh, of course, is at total mercy of the deteriorating economic situation when he makes landing on Mars, but is filled with unending gratitude when this beautiful and immensely wealthy woman singles him out for a "special assignment," which is to do what he wanted to do anyhow, which is go to Cliffside on her behalf and finally meet Kyria in person.  Josh buys into her "scheme" without hesitation, as he really doesn't have any other choice.  From that point forward, he gets caught up in the webs of love triangles and the rapidly unfolding upheaval that is taking place at this time through out Mars.

Rather than outlining the rest of the story (I promise to reveal more detail in response to your questions, etc...again, there are some aspects of the story I'm still uncertain of, so please, hand me whatever questions and comments you can think of    ), I would like to mention that my primary goal of this book is make it a fun and adventuresome read.  I want the reader to be able to experience Mars from the viewpoints of the different characters, and there will be plenty of action along the way to make things exciting and to keep those pages turning...lol. 

Again, I thank you for your input in this...

B

I like what you said about you guys should be the ones asking me the questions     But I had to get this thread started somehow...lol.

First off, let me say, in a nutshell, you really brought out the essence of what I'm attempting to do in my novel, and *fortuntately*, I think I might at least be on the right track with the things you mentioned, such as starting out with a "mature" settlement, and the characters dealing with the decisions of the past in conjunction with the events of the present.

In my first draft, I pretty much stayed away from flashbacks, etc, as I was concentrating on the basic story line for my draft, but as you hinted at, it'll be necessary for me to include a bit of backstory so that the reader can better relate to the characters and the things that are taking place in the "present."

I promise to reveal a bit more of what my story is about, but I'd like to hear a few more questions/comments before doing so.

Thanks, Clark, for your prompt and thoughtful reply...

B

Hello people,

I know it's been forever since I've posted on this board...I've kinda been taking a "Mars sabbatical"..lol.  But I'm back, and will try to weigh in on some of these wonderful discussions going on right now on this board, although there is a great deal of pressure on my time these days..lol.  But I promise to do my best...

Anyhow, I've been working on a SF novel, to be called "Red Frontier," and after completing my first and admittedly very rough first draft, I've taken a break so I can come back and begin writing my second draft with a fresh perspective.  As the key to writing any successful novel is getting feedback from potential readers, I would like to enlist some of you here on this board in getting Red Frontier into something that might actually get published..lol..as I'm sure many of you will agree with me that we need more novels about Mars...

Before I "taint" your minds about what my story is about, I would like to start off by asking all of you what you liked best in SF novels you have read in the past that take place on Mars, and what you like and dislike about them, as well as what you all would like to see in future novels about Mars. 

Here's a few questions to get you guys started:  Would you like to see a novel written in the style of modern best-seller authors such as Ken Follet, where the emphasis is on the character in addition to the "idea" of the story?  Or would you prefer the style of famous SF writers such as Larry Niven, KSR and Ben Bova?  What kind of plot would like to see in a novel about Mars?  (Such as the efforts of early pioneers vs a bit later down the line when a human-inhabited Mars "comes of age".)  What kind of characters would you enjoy reading about?  Would you like to read about terraforming, wars, revolution, power plays and romance? 

I'll leave it at that for now...and any feedback at all will be highly welcomed.  All writers get "stuck" from time to time, and in my case, some idea of what some of you would enjoy reading about will be a tremedous help in getting the ball rolling for my second draft of my novel.

B