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Mr. White:
You wrote, "...the term 'corporal' punishment I continue to believe this is evidence of a continuing debasement of the English language." I am inclined to agree with you on this point. However, my Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary indicates that "corporeal" is an obsolete way to spell corporal.
JammerG55:
You wrote that "if you consider corporal punishment to be spanking then I am for it but if that includes beating the living daylights [out of a child]" then you are not in favor of corporal punishment.
Jessica Serafin was beaten with a board and survived. Laree Slack, 12, was beaten with an electrical cable in accordance with the Biblical prescription "40 lashes minus 1, times three." This did beat the living daylights out of her -- she died. See the details at http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2001/dec01/ … other.html
The problem with allowing corporal punishment is that it WILL be carried to extremes and children will be maimed and killed. I therefore believe that corporal punishment should not be allowed on Mars.
If you favor spanking (hitting the buttocks), please recognize that the nerve endings in a girl's buttocks are connected to her clitoris (these nerves are sexually functional during dorso-ventral copulation). Spanking a girl can teach her to associate violent assault with sexual stimulation and this "lesson" can derail her normal sexual development.
Jessica Serafin was severely beaten on June 18, 2004, while she was a student at School of Excellence in Education, which is located in San Antonio, Texas. Brett Wilkinson, the school principal, beat Jessica with a 4-foot-long wooden paddle. He beat her so severely that she was subsequently taken to a hospital for emergency medical treatment. Additional details about this beating may be found at http://www.susanohanian.org/show_atroci … ml?id=3499
Should corporal punishment be permitted on Mars?
Should the "Constitution of Mars" prohibit violence against children?
GCNRevenger:
You wrote, "Blah blah 'killed for nothing' yadda yadda..." Were any of the seven Americans who were killed yesterday your sister or brother, mother or father, aunt or uncle, or cousin? Your cavalier attitude toward the senseless death of American soldiers is part of what drives the United States to engage in spurious preemptive warfare.
President Harry S. Truman had the courage to end and win the Second World War as soon as nuclear bombs were available. George Bush could have eliminated whatever threat Iraq posed to the United States without losing the life of even one American soldier. Instead, George Bush chose to feed thousands of Americans into a meat grinder. George Bush is a coward.
Shaun:
You wrote, "Scott's argument, coming from an ostensibly intelligent man, is so crass and filled with illogic..."
Seven more American soldiers were KILLED yesterday in Iraq.
Seven more lives thrown away for absolutely nothing. If you focused on that you would see the logic in my "argument."
George W. Bush, the President of the United States of America, was worried that Iraq would attack the USA with weapons of mass destruction. He could have ordered that nuclear warheads be used to obliterate all of the major cities in the Sunni Triangle, thereby eliminating the possibility of Iraq attacking the USA. However, rather than solving the problem in 30 minutes or less, President Bush decided to send more than 100,000 American soldiers to Iraq. More than 1,000 of those soldiers have been killed and several thousand more have been crippled.
The threat that Iraq posed to the United States could have been eliminated simply by pushing a few "launch" buttons. Instead, American soldiers have been slaughtered in Iraq. Why? To me, the answer is obvious. George Bush did not have the courage to use nuclear weapons to eliminate the threat. George Bush wimped-out and now thousands of American soldiers have been killed or crippled.
George Bush is not fit to lead the United States of America. George Bush is a coward.
DigitalSpace.com has numerous computer-generated images of Mars. It also has a section devoted to fashion. “Ratava's Line” of clothing includes a computer-generated image of a woman in an elegant, strapless evening gown. That gown does not cover her breasts. This caused me to wonder whether Martian women will wear braziers. In the 38 percent gravity of Mars, will women feel that they need braziers to support their breasts?
Average breast size varies widely throughout this world. See the bare facts at world-sex-records.com.
Should we apply an ecological approach to the colonization of Mars?
I have advocated an ecological approach to the task of establishing a self-sustaining civilization on Mars. My plan to accomplish that objective includes constructing a prototype Martian settlement on Earth, perhaps in one of the dry valleys of Antarctica. My ecological approach to the colonization of Mars might be regarded as an example of “sociocultural systems engineering” (see http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743 … /sosse.htm ).
In a book titled “Guns, Germs, and Steel, geographer Jared Diamond laid out a grand view of the organic roots of human civilizations in flora, fauna, climate and geology. That vision takes on apocalyptic overtones in this fascinating comparative study of societies that have, sometimes fatally, undermined their own ecological foundations. Diamond examines storied examples of human economic and social collapse, and even extinction, including Easter Island, classical Mayan civilization and the Greenland Norse. He explores patterns of population growth, overfarming, overgrazing and overhunting, often abetted by drought, cold, rigid social mores and warfare, that lead inexorably to vicious circles of deforestation, erosion and starvation prompted by the disappearance of plant and animal food sources. Extending his treatment to contemporary environmental trouble spots, from Montana to China to Australia, he finds today's global, technologically advanced civilization very far from solving the problems that plagued primitive, isolated communities in the remote past.”
Jared Diamond's most recent book is titled Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. In that book, “Diamond weaves an all-encompassing global thesis through a series of fascinating historical-cultural narratives. Moving from the Polynesian cultures on Easter Island to the flourishing American civilizations of the Anasazi and the Maya and finally to the doomed Viking colony on Greenland, Diamond traces the fundamental pattern of catastrophe. Environmental damage, climate change, rapid population growth, and unwise political choices were all factors in the demise of these societies, but other societies found solutions and persisted. Similar problems face us today and have already brought disaster to Rwanda and Haiti, even as China and Australia are trying to cope in innovative ways. Despite our own society’s apparently inexhaustible wealth and unrivaled political power, ominous warning signs have begun to emerge even in ecologically robust areas like Montana” (Publishers Weekly).
If we undertake to establish a self-sustaining Martian civilization, and to transform Mars into a warm, wet, and bountiful New Earth, we should pay close attention to the lessons that Diamond provides in the two books cited above. Those lessons will help us to avoid the civilization-destroying mistakes that our ancestors have made time and again.
I have designed an earring that symbolizes the opposition of Earth and Mars. In accordance with ProtoMartian aesthetic sensibilities, two of the dimensions of that earring are in Golden Ratio. See http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743 … ibit13.htm
RobS:
The numerical value of Phi is 1.618033988749... The formula for calculating Phi is the square-root of 5, plus 1, divided by 2.
PeterJ:
You wrote, "ABSOLUTELY no mixture of religion and politics. It is not in a nations best interest for religious values to determine the course of a nation."
As a matter of personal preference, I support the proposition that there should be a "high wall of separation" between church and state. However, under my draft Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars (see http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743 … ngmars.htm ), a Martian settlement could have a theocratic government. I believe that people who have obtained a "Settlement Charter" pursuant to that Constitution should have the option of establishing a settlement that has a theocratic government.
Robert:
You wrote, "Levels of government: I would create only two: federal and municipal." I agree, with the proviso that municipal governments should be authorized by the federal constitution to enter into joint powers agreements. This would allow any number of settlements to pool their resources to build and operate research laboratories, colleges, universities, and other institutions. And the federal courts should have the power to adjudicate disputes between municipal governments that are parties to joint powers agreements.
DISASTER WARNING!!!
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Speeches ignore impending U.S. debt disaster:
No mention of fiscal gap estimated as high as $72 trillion
by Carolyn Lochhead, San Francisco Chronicle, Washington Bureau
Sunday, September 12, 2004
Washington -- The first of the 77 million-strong Baby Boom generation will begin to retire in just four years. The economic consequences of this fact -- as scary as they are foreseeable -- are all but ignored by President Bush and
Democratic challenger John Kerry, who discuss just about everything but the biggest fiscal challenge of modern times.
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If you dare, read the full text of this article at
Dook:
The figure of $44 trillion comes from an article that was published about 16 months ago by CNN. See the following excerpts.
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Many economists worry that the U.S. federal budget deficit could approach a record $500 billion this year. Few, however, have grasped that the fiscal problems facing the United States could make an itty bitty $500 billion deficit look like pocket change.
Try $44.2 trillion on for size. That's the total "fiscal imbalance" figure Jagadeesh Gokhale, an economist with the Cleveland Federal Reserve and the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), and Kent Smetters, an economist at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, calculated in a recent, unpublished study about new methods of federal budget accounting.
What the number represents is the difference between all the government's future obligations -- mostly Medicare and Social Security payouts, which will explode when Baby Boomers start retiring in large numbers -- and its future revenue.
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And see http://specials.ft.com/spdocs/WP-Fiscal … etters.pdf
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Morris:
You are correct about the Federal Government transferring financial burdens to state and local governments. I wonder if this process could ultimately cause the dissolution of the United States. The Soviet Union sunk into debt and then dissolved. The U.S. could follow that same path.
Cobra:
You wrote, "In which case presumably the US would be able to undertake the project alone. It could even aid in recovery, a space age version of a massive public works program."
The Kondratieff economic cycle is driven primarily by demographic changes. By 2010 the world will have recovered from the financial dislocations caused by the default of the United States on its debts. However, that alone will not return the U.S. economy to a healthy condition. The U.S. will still have to deal with the retirement costs of the post World War II "Baby Boom" generation. Social Security and Medicare costs will be increasing and these burdens are likely to keep the U.S. economy in the doldrums until at least 2020. I therefore believe that getting the Mars movement back on the track after 2010 will require international cooperation and financing.
Cobra,
You wrote, "The reasons you state to justify your proposal are among the very reasons that render it unworkable."
I agree that the impending collapse of the U.S. dollar and the resulting worldwide economic depression will, in the near term, greatly impede efforts to explore and settle Mars. However, I am looking past that depression to the year 2010. At that future point in time, there should be enough of an economic recovery underway for the nations of Earth to once again set their sights on Mars.
Many of the people who post messages in this forum subscribe to the proposition that the colonization of Mars should be accomplished by private initiative rather than by a government program. I agree with this preference for private initiative but I have nevertheless proposed an international, government funded program to explore and settle Mars. (See http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743 … ngmars.htm )
In the 1600s a group of Pilgrims booked passage to the New World. They signed a "Compact" and thereby organized themselves into a "Civil Body Politic." Then they boarded a ship named The Mayflower. Those Pilgrims paid their own way to the New World. Unfortunately, would-be Martian settlers cannot do the same today. Establishing a 100-person settlement on Mars would cost in excess of $100 billion, and that cost is very, very far beyond the financial capacity of your average would-be Martian.
Some people want the United States of America to underwrite the exploration and settlement of Mars. Unfortunately, the U.S.A. is more than $44 trillion in debt. Every economist on this planet knows that the U.S.A. is technically bankrupt but 99 percent of those economists will not say so in public. They know that the U.S.A. will default on its debts, as the Soviet Union did in the 1990s and as Argentina did a couple of years ago. They know that the default will precipitate a worldwide depression.
Policy makers around the world know that the United States is moving inexorably into the winter phase of the Kondratieff economic cycle but they will not say so publicly. They know that if they publicly acknowledged this economic reality it would trigger the panic selling of stocks and bonds and a frantic rush to exchange Federal Reserve Notes for real money, gold and silver. So, in order to keep this CON game going a little longer, policy makers and their lap-dog economists will tell you that we are just in an economic "soft patch" and that things will improve soon. They will tell you this knowing that it is much more likely that the empire of the U.S dollar will IMPLODE soon.
Given these hard, cold, economic realities, I have proposed a Mars exploration and settlement plan that could bring the nations of this world together. I believe that international cooperation is an absolutely essential prerequisite to mustering the financial resources needed to explore and settle Mars.
P.S. If you want to survive the winter phase of this Kondratieff cycle, exchange your Federal Reserve Notes for gold and silver now, while you still can.
Mr. Edwards:
An anthropologist named Robin Dunbar wrote an article about the sizes of human groups. That article contains the following paragraph:
"One place we might look for evidence of 'natural' human group sizes is among pre-industrial societies, and in particular among hunter-gatherers. Most hunter-gatherers live in complex societies that operate at a number of levels. The smallest groupings occur at temporary night camps and have between 30 and 50 individuals. These are relatively unstable, however, with individuals or families constantly joining and leaving as they move between different foraging areas or water holes. The largest grouping is normally the tribe itself, usually a linguistic grouping that defines itself rather strictly in terms of its cultural identity. Tribal groupings typically number between 500 and 2500 men, women and children. These two layers of traditional societies are widely recognised in anthropology. In between these two layers, however, is a third group often discussed, but seldom enumerated. Sometimes, it takes the form of 'clans' that have ritual significance, such as the periodic celebration of coming-of-age ceremonies. Sometimes, the clan is based on common ownership of a hunting area or a set of water holes. For the few cases where census data are available, these clan groups turn out to have a mean size of about 153."
The full text of Dunbar's article can be found on the web at http://www.uboeschenstein.ch/sal/dunbar … unbar.html
Here is an interesting tidbit about a micro-state named Nauru (population 12,570). The CIA's World Factbook contains the following description of that nation's flag: "blue with a narrow, horizontal, yellow stripe across the center and a large white 12-pointed star below the stripe on the hoist side; the star indicates the country's location in relation to the Equator (the yellow stripe) and the 12 points symbolize the 12 original tribes of Nauru."
I wonder if it would be advisable to divide the population of New Euthenia into 10 tribes. When the population is at its maximum of 22,200 (148 neighborhood "clans" x 150 members per clan), each of the 10 tribes would have about 2,200 members, which is within the range of "500 and 2,500," as reported by Dunbar.
Once upon a time, I was extremely surprised to find that the bylaws of each of the political parties in the State of California is set forth in state law! This strange fact provides us with an example that could have "tribal" implications. What if each of the tribes of New Euthenia had the right to propose that the City Council adopt ordinances that apply to the tribe's members? For example, the rules of inheritance, marriage, etc., might vary from one tribe to another. And the means of settling intra-tribal disputes might vary from one tribe to another.
My design for New Euthenia includes 100 urban neighborhoods and 48 agricultural neighborhoods. In order to prevent social factions from developing along the urban/agricultural divide, it might be advisable to make sure that each tribe includes urban and agricultural neighborhoods. What do you think of that bit of "social engineering"?
Cobra:
You wrote, "Send people to Mars with a ten-thousand page tome on which they are to base their society and they will resist." Yes, I would expect people to reject a ten-thousand-page tome that had been written by some self-proclaimed know-it-all. That is why I have designed an environment that will allow people to come together and write their own rules. Under my proposal, The Ordinances of The City of New Euthenia would be formulated in the "experimental neighborhoods" of a prototype Martian settlement named The City of Euthenia.
Please note that the Pilgrims signed the Mayflower Compact BEFORE they set sail for the New World. And American settlers who joined wagon trains bound for Oregon signed compacts BEFORE they set out on their journeys. So I think that my proposal has plenty of historical precedent.
I believe that settlers should write and adopt The Ordinances of The City of New Euthenia BEFORE they leave Earth. I further believe that this procedure is just common sense.
Cobra:
You wrote, "And I applaud your efforts. But I, and I suspect many others believe that you are over-engineering it to the point of absurdity. The Euthenia proposal goes beyond colonial government and crosses into the realm of culture-building."
I will try to give you some insight into why I may appear to be "over-engineering." I have worked as an electrician and I have watched the coordinated behaviors of dozens of workmen in many different trades as they implement plans that contain thousands of details. For a medium-size commercial building, those details may be contained in a set of blueprints that are 100 pages long. (And I have seen what can happen when a workman fails to install one small screw in the right place.)
I have also worked as an electrical estimator. As such, I would spend several days analyzing the plans for a construction project and then writing a contract proposal based on my analysis. This work has enabled me to appreciate how difficult it is to draft construction plans that integrate thousands of details. Some of the plans that I analyzed were so poorly drafted that we decided not to submit a bid.
I have written and lobbied bills through the state legislature. This has given me valuable insights into how the political system of a modern society functions. And I was very thankful that our legislature only has 120 members. I panic at the thought of having to deal with the more than 500 members of the U.S. Congress. Yikes!!
And I have conducted ethnographic field work in a foreign country. This experience has taught me how challenging it can be to deal with the needs and expectations of people from many different societies and cultures.
In summary, when I look at my plans for The Euthenia Project I think how terribly incomplete they are. Real plans for a Martian exploration and settlement program would be thousands of pages long and would involve tens of thousands of people working together for several decades. So I do not think that I am "over-engineering." My "outline" for The Euthenia Project is very far from being a complete set of plans for an international effort to explore and settle Mars.
My plans for The Euthenia Project would be much simpler if they were designed to be implemented by only one nation (e.g., the U.S.A.). However, the United States is not able to mount a Martian exploration and settlement program. The United States is more than 40 trillion dollars in debt and technically bankrupt. When foreign central banks stop purchasing U.S. Treasury bonds the U.S. dollar will crash and the U.S. will default on its debts (as Argentina did a couple of years ago). So an effort to explore and settle Mars will have to be an international effort. And I believe that "culture-building" is a necessary part an international effort to colonize Mars. A ProtoMartian culture will, for political purposes, include components from all nations that participate in The Euthenia Project, and that composite culture must have the ability to rapidly adapt to its transplantation to Mars.
Mr. Edwards:
You wrote, "The government of New Euthenia could end up being the largest 'neighborhood' in the city!"
Yes, the city government might be the biggest employer in the city, and that concerns me because I am not a fan of socialism. However, given the contingencies of survival that prevail on Mars, I expect New Euthenia to be at least as socialistic as the Scandinavian countries of Earth.
Just imagine how many people will be involved in maintaining the air containment systems of the city. There will be air-tight sealant on the interior surface of every neighborhood and municipal dome and on of the interior surfaces of the network of streets. And there will be hundreds of automatic fire doors to be inspected and maintained. And dozens of air locks. And every breath of air in the city will be man-made and constantly remanufactured. The city government will have departments of air, water, sewer, electricity, streets, transporation, education, etc. And a city council of 148 members will probably be divided into numerous committees and subcommittees that oversee the operation of these departments and their various divisions. Wow! Government bureaucracy as far as the eye can see. And that's a little frightening to me because I know, from first-hand experience, how corrupt governments can become. But I am not trying to design my idea of utopia. I am trying to design a sociocultural system that can maintain and replicate itself on Mars.
Mr. Edwards:
You wrote, "If you can do that, why do you need an arbitrary(?) upper limit for the settlement population?"
I have suggested that the settlement have up to 148 neighborhoods so that if each neighborhood elects one member to the city council then the membership of the city council will not exceed The Magic Number, 150. And I have suggested that the members of the council have lunch together regularly as a way of encouraging them to become a social network.
I have seen television reports about fist fights erupting in various parliaments and I have read reports of U.S. Congress members attacking each other. And recently the U.S. Vice President used very obscene language when speaking to a member of the Senate. These sorts of behaviors should not occur in New Euthenia.
I believe that it will be very important for the members of the New Euthenia City Council to be able to work together in a peaceful and respectful manner. The members of the council must be able to set an excellent example for young people.
Mr. Edwards:
You wrote, "So you're going to restrict people to their neighborhoods..." No, I am not proposing that. The people of New Euthenia would be able to use the streets that run between neighborhoods, and they would be able to use municipal facilities, such as the Central Park, the natatorium (indoor swimming pool), and the concert hall, etc.
One neighborhood might have defined and strictly enforced "Visiting Hours," while another neighborhood might allow anyone to enter the neighborhood at any time. The City Council might adopt a curfew ordinance regarding minors (people under 18) and perhaps an ordinance which provides that no one under the age of 4 may use the city streets and other municipal facilities unless accompanied by someone older than 10.
You asked, "If you don't intend to allow social contacts to survive the birth of a daughter settlement, what's the sense of applying the Rule of 150?
I anticipate that social contacts will "survive the birth of a daughter settlement." But that will not change the fact that in New Euthenia social control will be exercised primarily on an informal basis by the members of a neighborhood and that, consequently, New Euthenia will have a small police force, low taxes, and a few jail cells that are empty most of the time. Or would you prefer a police state?
Informal social control (the rule of 150) or formal social control (the police); social control will be exercised one way or another.
My Martian exploration and settlement plan is based, in part, on a social science proposition named "the rule of 150." Social scientists have found that a group of 150 people is as large as a group can get and still maintain its internal unity. Beyond that number, social factions develop and this can lead to conflict and, eventually, secession.
I recently revised my design for a Martian settlement named The City of New Euthenia. That design contains the following paragraph, including a hyperlink to a page about the rule of 150.
"The number of people in each neighborhood in New Euthenia will fluctuate between about 75 and 150. While the total population of New Euthenia is gradually growing toward a maximum of about 22,200, the people of New Euthenia will be building a daughter settlement nearby. As the daughter settlement nears final completion, about half of the people in each neighborhood in New Euthenia will begin moving to a neighborhood in the daughter settlement. This settlement pattern will ensure that neighborhoods contain no more than 150 people. This settlement pattern is based on 'the rule of 150,' which holds that the maximum size of a human social network is 150 people."
My revised page about New Euthenia is located at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743 … thenia.htm
My plan provides that New Euthenia will have 148 neighborhoods. If each neighborhood selects 1 member of the New Euthenia City Council then the Council will have 148 members. In order to promote cooperation and good will among the members of the Council, they might make a habit of having lunch together once each month. Each neighborhood might take a turn at hosting these luncheons.
Trebuchet:
You have asserted that the Moon Treaty "has no redeeming features whatsoever." Please take notice of the fact that the Moon Treaty allows for the possibility of "legal norms" being established for Mars and other celestial bodies. Such norms could provide for the establishment of municipal (city) governments and the adoption of ordinances that allow the private ownership of Martian resources. I have provided an example of such norms in the form of a "Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars." That example is posted on the web at http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743 … ngmars.htm
I agree that the Moon Treaty constitutes an impediment to the development of extraterrestrial resources. However, that treaty is a part of the current political landscape. I have proposed a way of revising that treaty so that it can provide a foundation for private enterprise. Please try to look past the treaty as it is (a curse) to a revised treaty that will promote space development (a blessing).
Clark:
You asked, "How does the Moon treaty create equity...?" The Moon Treaty was not designed to create equity (an equal ability of nations to exploit lunar resources). Small and less developed nations could join together to establish companies that do have sufficient capital to exploit lunar resources. The European Space Agency is an example of a group of nations joining together to reach into space.