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#326 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Naming Martian Settlements - What would you suggest? » 2002-10-12 14:15:50

Londinium is a good name for a Martian settlement.

I dunno. Londinium sounds like something that should be on the periodic chart of elements.  It is interesting though that the name is tied in with the Mars god.  Maybe we should just name the colony New London.

#327 Re: Not So Free Chat » Mars movies - A list » 2002-10-10 21:00:54

What's the best movie that features Mars?  I think I'd have to vote for Total Recall.  I think in the future it's possible we could find ourselves in a situation where we can't easily trust our memories or sense of reality.

#328 Re: Not So Free Chat » Russian reality TV show » 2002-10-10 20:50:47

Watch it?  I want to be IN it!!! 
Somebody get a photo of NASA's faces when precious ISS hosts game show contestant     
turbo

LOL, I bet there's all kinds of people in the "system" gritting their teeth at the prospects of mere gameshow contestants flying around in their holy space.  I like the way Russia stirs up things up there. smile

*I'd tune in.  How long I'd stay on the channel, though, would depend on the program's content.  If the majority of the focus is on the actual training methods, handling of equipment, operations, etc., I'd stay with it.  Of course there would be human element in it as well, but if the program were to center mostly around personal problems, who cosmonaut so-and-so is shacking up with this week, why cosmonaut x and y dislike each other, on and on, I'd tune out.

Again, it'd depend on the overall content of the program.

Ditto that.  It seems the only thing that's on TV anymore are self-absorbed people trying to stab each other in the back.  I generally can't stand watching TV even though that might change if I had cable.

#329 Re: Not So Free Chat » Importance of a moon to motivating spaceflight - Really necessary? » 2002-10-10 20:35:58

I have yet to see anyone suggest that the moons are supposed to be ?inspirational? to aliens. It's silly.

I've seen it or I wouldn't have brought it up.  Some "rare-Earth" advocates sometimes make the argument that a civilization won't have a desire to spread into space if there's no easily reachable target for them to look to, and they use the Moon as an example. 

Who knows, without the moon we may not even have intelligent life on Earth. The moon allowed wide tides early in Earth's history, providing a requirement for life to start developing the ability to survive on dry land. The moon also stablizes the Earth's axil tilt, preventing the planet from wobbling as bad as Mars. And who knows what effect the event which created the moon had on Earth's development. The planet was not always a haven for life, life turned it into one.

Your arguments kind of kills the panspermia theory that defends the notion that life was likely deposited on Earth from an extraterrestrial source.  Personally, it just seems more likely that Earth life first became life on Earth, but I could be wrong.  After all it is a little fishy why some bacteria have developed the ability to thrive in environments bombarded with ungodly amounts of radiation unless they had to survive unprotected in space somehow.  So I guess it's fairly probably life could have arose on this planet either natively or not.

#330 Re: Terraformation » From the Ground Up - Is terraforming Mars REALLY possible? » 2002-10-10 20:16:57

So Phobos we shouldn't care if all these things die?

You misunderstoond me Nida.  I was merely asking Cindy why human actions are unnatural as opposed to being natural.  I wasn't defending raping the planet.  Intelligence and its products (whether good or bad) are natural in my opinion, unless we were truly created by some supernatural being, a concept I don't believe in.  So as I said, I'm just trying to find where the dividing line exists between natural and unnatural.  I think we just have differing definitions of natural.

#331 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Liquid fission rocket » 2002-10-10 20:10:59

You seem pretty good at physic. I posted a question in another thread about combustion-fission. I wanted to know if a chemically drive fission was possible. Is it wrong to think that some fission of few uranium atoms could help a rocket propellant mixture to deliver its power ? Very very few fission I mean, more like a catalyzer for the propellant reaction.

Your idea sounds similiar to the aimstar engine that would use very small amounts of anti-matter to ignite a fusion reaction in a fusion rocket.  With the recent developments in trapping anti-matter (if those discoveries are genuine) concepts like ICAN which would use very very small amounts of antimatter as an aid in propulsion might not be that far off.

#332 Re: Human missions » Mars Needs You - Call for volunteers » 2002-10-10 20:02:19

I saw at the mars society page that some members set up a booth at a county fair. Do lots of members do that? Sounds like it'd be fun

I like that idea of setting up an exhibit at a county fair.  The last time I went to one they had a high power rocketry exhibit with booths full of cut-away rocket engines, big colorful posters on how rockets work, etc.  Yep, we could unfold a little booth next to the John Deere exhibit and extoll the virtues of going to Mars while wearing straw hats and chewing on strands of hay.  I'd like to put up big colorful posters and maybe print up a bunch of well designed, well illustrated pamphlets that would outline how Mars Direct would work and reasons why space development is important.  Can't leave out the space elevator stuff either. smile  I think I'm going to look into that.  Oh yeah, I think it would good to make models that illustrate some of the features of Mars Direct also.  It'd be fun talking to all of the people who come by and take interest.

#333 Re: Not So Free Chat » Russian reality TV show » 2002-10-08 22:16:03

We've got people on TV competing in the stone age on tropical islands while the Russians will soon have people competing to ride into space and spend a week on the ISS.  Here's a quote from the CNN  article:

"MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- Russia's biggest television station announced Tuesday it was teaming up with the country's space agency to create a reality show that will be literally out of this world.

The show will follow contestants as they go through the rigorous training required for cosmonauts, and the winner will spend a week on the Russian segment of the International Space Station, said Channel 1, also known as ORT.
"


Would you watch a TV show like this?  I would. smile

#334 Re: Not So Free Chat » Importance of a moon to motivating spaceflight - Really necessary? » 2002-10-08 22:10:15

There seems to be a popular idea out there that spacefaring civilizations are rare because planets that harbor life, like Earth, aren't very likely to have large moons.  The proponents of the idea seem to think that the moon was the motivating factor that got us into space somehow.  I don't buy it, space is immensely useful even if you don't have a moon and I think any civilization capable of spaceflight would realize that.  And most of the early rocket/space pioneers like Von Braun, Goddard, Korolev, etc, seemed to have as much interest in sending people to Mars as they did the moon from everything I've read.  So who knows, if we didn't have a moon, maybe the USA and USSR would have competed to see who could get to Mars first instead.  Yeah I know, I'm in a strange mental state tonight. smile

#335 Re: Terraformation » From the Ground Up - Is terraforming Mars REALLY possible? » 2002-10-08 21:56:25

*Well...extinction by natural means is part of eco-equilibrium; but what about these plants and animal species going extinct because man has hunted and/or destroyed them into extinction [unnatural]?



--Cindy

So if an asteroid hits Earth and wipes out all life, that is natural correct?  If an intelligent species directs an asteroid to Earth and wipes all life, that's unnatural right?  What makes us unnatural?  Our ability to reason and to will the extinction of something whereas a "natural" extinction is caused by some random event that had no intelligence behind it?  I'm not defending our bad stewardship of the planet, I'm just curious why you think extinction caused by homo sapiens is unnatural while extinctions caused by other factors are natural.

#336 Re: New Mars Articles » The urgency question - Could we lose our chance to go? » 2002-10-08 21:41:20

So the secret is to do away with all the work, let most of this surplus population die, then the survivors (all 12 of em) can live off the naturaly occuring food and not have to work 40 hour weeks.

I don't buy it.

Or develop artificial intelligence to the point where it can do most of the human labor autonomously and then make people share holders in the state who recieve dividends from these largely robotic dependant corporations (I believe Alaska does something like this.)  And yes, before you go calling me a hypocrite for suggesting such a socialistic thing, I still think people should have all the rights to start up their own businesses if they choose.  Yeah, you scoff and laugh now but in 100 years, 200 years....

#337 Re: First Words » Launch! » 2002-10-08 21:30:02

I just had an interview with a guy from the Discovery Channel, who's writing up a short article for their website. It seems like interest is really building in the competition so I've decided to extend it for two more days until October 12th - it would be a shame to end it prematurely.

I hope your planning to leave the site up indefinately and keep adding new additions to it even after the competition is over.  It was a brilliant idea that seems to be taking off.

There is an article at Space.com regarding First Words- there is even a quote from Adrian.

Actually I think some other news outlets mentioned Adrian also when he made that animation of Mars.  At least I think that's the same Adrian that tends to this board. smile

#338 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc. » 2002-10-04 22:00:07

Anyway, I'm wondering if it's not more likely the water found on those moons is frozen solid all the way through.  Molten cores wouldn't be enough to keep the water in a nonfrozen state, would it?  Our oceans remain unfrozen thanks in some part to our thick atmosphere keeping warmth within its protectiveness...which the moons referred to in the article don't have, obviously.  If the water on those moons is frozen solid, there won't be any life there...obviously.

It's possible that the strong tidal forces caused by Jupiter would generate enough heat to keep the interior of Europa liquid.  The way the surface is cracked in some places has led a lot of geologists to think there's liquid water beneath the ice but who knows.  I hope there's an ocean under there.  It would be an experience seeing the landscape of an alien ocean.

#339 Re: Not So Free Chat » Help please...pretty please?? - Near-computer illiterate lady needs help » 2002-10-04 21:43:40

*Phobos, whatever you do next, please DON'T hand that ax over to my debating nemesis! 

--Cindy

Well, the axe might get turned over to your debating nemesis but he'll have to pull it out of his head first. smile

Hehe! You and Phobos are friends? That's awesome. I need to get my brother posting here.

Hey go for it!  Hopefully he won't start babbling about Eskimos on Pluto. smile  If he does I'll loan you my axe. big_smile

#340 Re: New Mars Articles » The urgency question - Could we lose our chance to go? » 2002-10-04 21:06:58

The contrast with today's protestant-work-ethic-driven western society, with its 60 hour working weeks and related stresses, is stark.
   We've gained many things but it appears we've lost a few things too!!

I'm all for instituting a three day weekend or if that's not enough a two day work week would be just fine. smile  So it'd take longer to build those buildings or fix roads or whatever, so what, I'd rather have the extra play time. big_smile

1:  I don't see how the perception that the environmentalist movement is at odds with space exploration came about.  I for one have seen several environmentalists argue for mars colonization.

Don't get the idea that we think all environmentalists are against the colonisation and utilization of space.  If you go back and read some of the earlier messages you'll see we defended making alliances with certain environmentalist groups.  But there are certainly radical environmentalist organizations out there who are wholeheartedly against the "exploitation" of resources in space.  Friends of the Moon, ELF, Greypeace, and other groups.  If you want to see how some of these people think just read what remains of NovaMarsollia's posts.  They see humanity more as a disease that should be wiped out than something that should be allowed to spread beyond Earth's atmosphere.  Such people tend to be very totalitarian in their political outlook and if given the chance would love to yank our chains in any direction they see fit in the name of "environmentalism."

#341 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » The X-Prize - Any wagers as to who will win? » 2002-10-03 19:25:20

Once someone wins the sub-orbital X-prize I wonder if they plan to offer one for the first private manned orbital flight.  XCor might be in the running for such a prize if they offer it.  And if Highlift Systems can get their elevator built in 15 years (lets be optimistic! ) I wonder if that would qualify as an entrant.  Anyways, is the Canadian Arrow the one using the modified V-2 engines?

#342 Re: Civilization and Culture » Toilet Paper - The blue-bag report » 2002-10-03 19:04:20

Going to Mars baldheaded seems like a practical and easy solution to the problem of growing hair.  I wonder what those Russian cosmonauts who stayed on Mir for months at a time did with their hair.  Did they just let it grow out or did they have methods for cutting it that kept hair from floating all over the place?

#343 Re: Terraformation » From the Ground Up - Is terraforming Mars REALLY possible? » 2002-10-03 18:52:34

No Cindy!
   Please don't join the Reds!
   On my wall, as I write this, I have a beautiful sequential picture of Mars changing from the way it looks now to a magnificent planet with a blue northern ocean and white fluffy clouds.

   Terraforming will, I'm sure, be easier than it looks.
   Given a little time, "life finds a way".

The other day when I was strolling among the truly gigantic trees up in Sequoia National Park I couldn't help but think about how gorgeous Mars would be covered with such huge trees.  I was thinking about how we could construct whole cities up in them like the Ewoks in Star Wars do but I won't get into that. smile

#344 Re: Life support systems » Food! - Marsians=vegetarians? » 2002-10-03 18:17:27

What exactly is "yeast extract", do they squeeze the poor yeast for its juice?  Doesn't bring appetizing images to mind.


If we're going to be bringing goats along, what about my herd of cows?!

I think Cindy's concept of "snoozing moo-stronauts" deserves further consideration!

I think you mean your concept of snoozing moo-stronauts needs further consideration. big_smile  Cindy was talking about bah-stronauts. smile

#345 Re: Life support systems » The Threat of Meteors » 2002-10-03 18:10:31

Even if lunar settlements would be situated deep in the ground, there is still serious danger posed by meteors...again, some of those craters are deep.  I suppose lunar settlements could be buried way down deep into Luna...that is, if everyone wants to live like moles all the time. 

--Cindy

Most of the big craters on the Moon (and probably Mars to) are very ancient.  The probability of a big one coming down and smacking a space colony is probably about the same as Earth, not impossible, but nothing that we should let scare us from building lunar and Martian establishments.  Anyways, if micro-meteorites are all we have to worry about those are easily stopped by good shielding.  RobS's observation of the lack of smaller craters on Mars seemed encouraging but I wonder if such craters could have been filled in or eroded away fairly quickly.  In any case the Martian surface doesn't appear to be inundated with small craters which means it probably hasn't had much recent history of small meteorites smacking into its surface since it would still take a long time to fill in the craters or erode them away with Mar's thin atmosphere.

#347 Re: Human missions » President Bush and Mars - Sample return too expensive » 2002-10-03 17:50:52

*Wouldn't it just be the absolute height of irony if some pathogen from Mars would halt the aging process?  Kind of like a Fountain of Youth in a little microscopic squiggley?  And here we'd be, unknowingly trying to protect ourselves from it, trying to "sterilize the field," contain it, eradicate it, etc., etc...all while researchers continue busting their rear-ends trying to stop the aging process -- and we passed over this little bug that'd solve the problem.  That'd be our luck.

Oh man, just imagine if someone found out that Martian microbes could halt the aging process!  You'd find no shortage of people clamoring for missions to Mars especially if we needed to find the places where the microbes like to hang out.  You'd need a staffed Martian research base to find out things like that.  And yes I know you could grow them but you'd still need to go back since we know nothing of Martian biology and thus could end up damaging our stock of microbes.

Thanks Phobos for encouraging me in my soapbox lecturing!  I'm not sure whether you agree with me or just enjoy seeing my blood pressure rise and my face turn purple!!

Yes to both. smile

#348 Re: First Words » Launch! » 2002-10-03 17:32:43

Great site!  I loved the variety of responses in the "first words" section.  That part about making the Moon into cpus so we can think more thoughts wasn't exactly something I was expecting to read. smile

#349 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » The X-Prize - Any wagers as to who will win? » 2002-10-02 18:20:16

I never considered Armadillo aerospace a serious contender for the trophy until now.  Romero seems optimistic that he can pull off the flight by 2004 but I'd still bet that either Starchaser or Da Vinci win the Xprize in 2003.  I think Romero needs to speed up the schedule a bit if he's serious about winning.

However, the real money, from space tourism, will be made by guys like XCor and Burt Rutan who design spaceplanes and TSTO spacecraft.  The easiest way to make a spacecraft that operates like an airliner is to make an airliner that flies in space.  That's the beauty of a spaceplane.

I think XCor is wise to go the route their going with non-toxic fuels.  That Armadillo stunt used peroxide based fuels, which are very toxic and corrosive.  There were plenty of German jet pilots in WWII who could attest to that fact.  Nothing will kill a venture faster than environmental problems, which can become expensive and thus make you uncompetitive.

#350 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » New Discoveries - Extraplanetary, deep space, etc. » 2002-10-02 18:08:44

*Proof of the Big Bang theory - ?

http://www.sciencenews.org/20020928/fob1.asp

--Cindy

I remember reading somewhere that the cosmic background radiation would become visibly blue once you reached a certain percentage of the speed of light.  Just thought I'd share that.  big_smile

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