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#3201 Re: Not So Free Chat » Quality of Life on Mars » 2006-01-30 08:02:29
As I recall from Zubrin's book, it may be possible to create methane from resources already available on Mars. What other natural resources are available, and what can be made from them.
What necessary resources are NOT available, an how will Mars acquire them ?
Will a scarcity of certain resources be the means by which Earth maintains control of Martian colonies ?
Every material resource is available on Mars, that's what makes it the second most desirable location in the Solar system. The main problem is not resources but the extremely thin atmosphere which allows too much radiation through and does not retain enough heat - and of course is unbreathable.
#3202 Re: Human missions » Lunar sooner » 2006-01-30 07:10:49
#3203 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV IV - Before thread #3 melts down » 2006-01-30 06:50:41
Astronautix article about CEV. Interesting to read...
http://www.astronautix.com/craftfam/cev.htm
Yes interesting to see a summary of all the different studies that were done, however it misses the point that the main driver for the CEV design is not ISS support but the RTTM mission.
#3204 Re: Human missions » Griffin: Shuttle, ISS were *-Mistakes-* » 2006-01-30 06:30:10
detailed interview with Mike about STS, Mars etc from Jan 19
#3205 Re: Unmanned probes » New Horizons - mission to Pluto and the Kupier belt » 2006-01-30 05:52:35
update from: spaceref 28 Jan 2006 - she's looking great
New Horizons performed its first trajectory correction maneuver, TCM-1A, at 1900 UTC today. This was a 5 m/sec calibration burn and validation burn of our propulsion system and delta-V thrusters in preparation for the somewhat larger (12 m/s) TCM-1B maneuver set for 1900 UTC on Monday.
Together these two maneuvers (1A and 1B) will refine our Jupiter aim point substantially to allow us to accurately hit the Jupiter Gravity Assist aim point for Pluto and our desired 14 July 2015 arrival date.
TCM-2 is planned for 15 February. Given the early calibration numbers from TCM-1A, we estimate this maneuver will be a clean up/tweak of about 1 m/s; a more refined estimate for TCM-2 will be available after a couple of weeks of DSN tracking.
#3206 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Genesis, Stardust, Etc.: Snag & Bag » 2006-01-29 14:15:57
#3207 Re: Unmanned probes » New Horizons - mission to Pluto and the Kupier belt » 2006-01-27 12:07:40
Extract from Alan Stern's PI's Perspective (January 24, 2006)
Now that we are launched and safely on our way, we know that our journey will take precisely 3462.7 days, i.e., from 19:00 UTC on Jan, 19, 2006, to 12:00 UTC July 14, 2015, to reach Pluto. Encounter science operations will begin about 150 days before we reach Pluto.
As I write this, on flight day 4, we have roughly 0.1% of the journey behind us. In those four days, the spacecraft team has been conducting subsystem checkouts and designing the trajectory correction maneuvers planned to trim up our route of flight to the precise aim point 2.5 million kilometers from Jupiter, at approximately 05:41 UTC on Feb. 28, 2007.
On Sunday, we completed the spacecraft's planned spin down to 5 RPM (it was 68 RPM for the STAR-48 firing, and 19.2 RPM after an open-loop burn on launch day). Once we did that, we did the initial star tracker turn-on. Until the star-tracker is fully operational, we're still relying on the Sun sensors and Inertial Measurement Units (IMUs) for attitude reference - both of which performed very well.
Because of the extremely accurate launch our Atlas V/STAR-48 launcher combination provided, we only need to provide an 18 meter-per-second correction in order to thread that needle at Jupiter. Pre-launch predicts had allowed for maneuvers 5 to 10 times that size. We're all very happy to only have a small correction to make, since this saves propellant for future science mission use. The 18 m/sec correction is planned to be conducted in two parts: a 5 m/sec increment on Jan. 28 and a 13.3 m/sec increment on Jan. 30. We split the maneuvering into two parts to calibrate our propulsion system with a small first burn before going for the majority of the correction. This strategy will allow us to thread the needle more accurately than a single larger burn would have.
#3208 Re: Human missions » Mars? Moon first. - Mars is too hard and dangerous for now. » 2006-01-27 11:42:55
Mike Griffin at the premiere of "Roving Mars" the new IMAX movie at the National Air and Space Museum, Jan 25
I, for one, cannot wait until NASA sets up a permanent exploratory base on Mars. But, preceding such an event, we have many preparatory events to execute before we get there.
--
spacewiki - touch the water
#3209 Re: Unmanned probes » Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) & LCROSS impactor » 2006-01-27 11:04:20
#3210 Re: Pictures of Mars » Favorite "Mars" movies » 2006-01-20 11:21:07
Brief review of "Roving Mars" a new IMAX movie to be released January 27, with comments from Squyres:
#3212 Re: Human missions » Return to flight slipping » 2006-01-19 07:50:58
The current cost ballooning is due to the combination of two primary factors, one being that for CEV to fly by 2012 then real work has to start on it now and this costs real money. The second, the Shuttle program costs continue to balloon out of control, but due to the sheer complexity of the enterprise and tax contributions to particular Congressional districts, NASA is unable to make meaningful cuts.
Got any hard cost numbers to share? even NASA ones will do 
#3213 Re: Unmanned probes » Comments on MEPAG Draft Mars Exploration Program Plan » 2006-01-18 09:15:37
True stretching out the missions to Mars over decades is at best over planned business as usual. But what we need are the samples from the surface to assure that it would not be hazardous for man to set foot there and that does not happen until 2022 plus.
Phoenix and MSL should be able to adequately reduce the health risk of Martian dust. A sample return mission will cause yet another unnecessary delay to human exploration, and it's expensive too (estimated at $2 billion). People can bring back more and far better selected samples.
#3214 Re: Unmanned probes » Mars Science Lab getting cuts ? » 2006-01-18 09:09:06
I'm a bit worried... 2009 launch and they say 'considering nuclear power source'
If they're still in the 'considering-phase', they'll have little time to actually build it?
Or are RTG's considered to be fairly easy to implement, do they have some ready-off the shelf hardware still lying around?I'm asking because I thought i read somewhere RTGs were being phased out... No new ones being built the last couple of years.
Griffin was asked this very question too and he said there was no problem producing an RTG for MSL ... a transcript of his comments is here
Apparently there is still some discussion inside the project about using solar power instead of an RTG, but given the power problems of the MERs it would seem unlikely that it would use solar cells.
#3215 Re: Unmanned probes » Mars Science Lab getting cuts ? » 2006-01-18 06:53:02
MSL appears to be in good shape according to this Space.com article published today.
Mike Griffin was asked about the project yesterday at the HQ press conference and gave no indication that there would be any change in the 2009 launch date. However he did hint at budget problems - not surprising if the $1.5 billion cost that Space.com mentions is true.
BTW the mission website has been updated recently, lots of new stuff there.
#3216 Re: Unmanned probes » Comments on MEPAG Draft Mars Exploration Program Plan » 2006-01-16 15:21:18
Much like your thread "Mars Scout 2006 AO for launch in 2011" may facets of Mars scouting for scientific reasons have been in the works for some time. Though until recent the sucess rate for these missions has been very low.
It is a comfort to know that a plan has been created for the next decade or so of robotic mission activity.
Program Goal: “Understand the evolution of Mars, the presence or absence of habitable zones, and if life formed or existed.”
Objectives for the Next Decade: “Follow the Water and Search for Habitable Zones.”
2011/2013: Determine: (a) atmospheric escape rates for key species, and (b) the detailed composition, abundance, and distribution of atmospheric trace gases (e.g., for methane).
2016: Determine if there were or are habitable zones and life, and how their development was related to the overall evolution of the planet, through surface observations using rover-based systems that acquire and analyze samples.
2020: Determine the structure and dynamics of the interior using seismic and heat flow measurements since these measurements are fundamental to understanding Mars as a system.
2022/2024: Return samples using rover-based collection systems in locations for which Earth-based sample analyses would maximize understanding of the evolution of the planet, habitable zones, and whether or not life developed or existed on Mars.
But are these all the things needed to put man on the surface or are there some that will not be needed....
It's a more general and accessible document, and even though it comments on Scout 2006 it seemed worthy of a new thread; I hope I didn't waste too much space
I'll take an opposite position and say that I'm uncomfortable with this business as usual, step by step planning approach that stretches into the distant future. I think we know enough now to put people on Mars especially with the upcoming MRO and MSL inputs. We don't need any of these missions.
#3217 Re: Unmanned probes » Comments on MEPAG Draft Mars Exploration Program Plan » 2006-01-16 06:47:05
Prepared by Ray Arvidson et al, it's now available here and it's quick and easy to read!
The coments cover these proposed missions:
2011/2013 Scout and core science orbiter with telecoms capability
2016 Mid-rovers or Astrobiology Field Laboratory
2018 Scout
2020 Planetary Evolution and Meteorology Network
2022 Mars Sample Return Orbiter with Telecom
2024 Mobile Mars Sample Return
#3218 Re: Human missions » New Russian Spacecraft » 2006-01-14 08:59:26
It's all a question of money and cred. The Russians used to have a lot of cred but years of near zero civil space budgets have decimated their capacity to do much other than build launchers. EUrope has the money but is reluctant to give it to ESA without more control of their independent organization. ESA wants a manned capability and so does EUrope, and Russia wants the money ... so a deal is possible, but there again EUropean engineers want control of the design process ... and so it goes on.
#3219 Re: Human missions » Spacesuits - personal spaceship » 2006-01-14 05:44:17
Gary Harris makes a strong point about spacesuits being designed to fit into spaceships as an afterthought and not, as he insists, the spaceship sized and designed around the spacesuit requirements. He goes on to point out that the CEV is making this same mistake by not considering the spacesuit in its design. If you like to hear a real engineer talking in detail, check out the Space show audio here
#3220 Re: Unmanned probes » Mars Scout -11 » 2006-01-13 09:35:08
NASA have just released a new Mars Scout Mission of Opportunity document for *community comment* - the mission is capped at $475M and is to be launched before the end of 2011.
"Investigations proposed as Mars Scouts may include remote observations from Mars-orbiting spacecraft; missions that may deploy aerial or landed systems to study the Martian atmosphere, surface, interior, geopotential fields, and/or deep subsurface; sample return missions; or any other innovative approach to exploring and conducting scientific research at Mars." (Draft AO page 5)
#3221 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV IV - Before thread #3 melts down » 2006-01-13 08:15:25
... and let's not forget that the possibility of lunar water ice means that H2 would also be available for refueling the LSAM completely. A fully refueled LSAM could shuttle between the surface and LLO and hopefully enable a CEV to dock with it directly without the need for a HLV launch each time to bring a fresh one.
#3222 Re: Meta New Mars » Great Site -- But.. - Why so quiet? » 2005-06-08 03:38:16
Yes this is an excellent forum, allowing guests to post is very enlightened! You seem to have everythjing covered here, well done!
Okay this is my "but"
When trying to read the latest posts from the main page the link goes to the first post in the thread, not the latest one. The "Last Post" link on a subform topic, isn't either.
I may just go through the registration process now